Ok for your child's teacher to be out for a week to go to WDW?

[hokiefan33]

Originally posted by Mike Bartenhagen
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"I would have to ask if teaching is a full time job or a part time job?" Ask any teacher and they will tell you. If you even think that teaching is a part-time job, shame on you.

2) "If you consider it a full time job than you must say that you can easily make 30K to 40K a year with 9 weeks or more of paid vacation in the summer and weekends off...not a bad job." Not everywhere pays $30 to $40k a year. In the rural county where I attended school, and where my MIL teaches, teachers only make about $25k a year, b/c that is all that is in the budget. A little more for a grad. degree or longevity, but nowhere near $40k.

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You can also say this about any other job. People make more money in an urban setting than in a rural setting. Waitressess make more money in Omaha than in Western Nebraska. Similar jobs have different pay scales in different areas. This is not specific to teaching.

True, but you then have to look at the real dollars (in terms of purchasing power) brought home. $50k in California might equate to $30k in KY, while $50k in KY might equate to $80k in CA. Just b/c a teacher makes $30-40k, which not all do, doesn't mean they're doing well.
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3) "If you consider it a part time job (paid for 9 months but checks spread out over 12)..." This isn't even the definition of part-time. This is simply a way to ensure you always get a check every month, which makes it easier for many families for budgeting purposes. Part-time deals with the number of hours you work, not when or how often you get paid. Let's keep that straight.

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An earlier post said that teachers were paid for 200 days a year. With 52 weeks in the year and 5 days in a week that means there are 260 days that one could work in a year. Therefore based on your definition this would be a part time job. I prefer to think of teaching as a full time job with the advantage of many weeks of paid vacation in the summer.

Based on my definition, this still wouldn't be a part-time job. That's still working, according to your statistics, which aren't valid for every school district but we'll use them, approx. 77% of the 260 days the average corp. worker would work, but this doesn't count holidays, etc... 77%, in my opinion, still isn't PT.
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4) "...than 30K to 40K with the ability to get another part time job in the summer and probably add another 10K - 15K to your income for the year is a also a pretty good job." Hmmm... let's look at this for a minute. Let's say a teacher wants to earn the minimum $10k on your scale, and has 9 weeks to do it in (which is becoming the normal summer break for many districts where I live). That means they have to gross $1,111 per week for each of the 9 weeks. Working a full-time schedule (40 hours), the teacher would have to earn $27.78/hour to earn that much. Over a full year (40 hours/week x 52 weeks), earning that much an hour would equate to an annual salary of approx. $58k, far more than the $30 or $40k you say is easy to make as a teacher. Based on this, I ask you, what kind of PT job do you have available paying $27.78/hour? Please let me know, b/c I'll be happy to work there after my FT job is out for the day, earning that kind of money!!
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First of all I will have to say that there are more than 8 hours a day and more than 5 days in a week. There are teachers in our school district that have painted houses for years during the summer. You can easily make 1000.00 painting a house. If two people paint 2 and 1/2 houses a week that is 1250.00 each

Yes, there are, but we're looking at averages here, so I used a common 40 hour week, FT average. Not unreasonable. Keep in mind, also, that not all teachers know how to paint, and even if all did, all teachers who wanted to paint in the summer wouldn't be able to find enough work to keep them all busy. And painting 2 1/2 houses per week is a pretty tall order, if we're talking the whole house, especially for teachers who aren't experienced painters. Might want to find another example, like tutoring kids, working in daycare centers, office work, etc..., which might be more applicable to the average teacher. Nice try, though.
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5) "Our school district, which is a smaller district in Nebrakska, had 6 job openings for this fall and there were over 200 applicants which tells me that it must be a good job." If a McDonalds has 6 positions open (let's say 2 fry cooks, 2 cashiers and 2 janitorial positions), and they post an ad in a town where 200 people need a job, and all 200 people apply, does that mean that working at McDonalds is considered a good job? Or might it mean that 200 people need a job, perhaps any job they can get? Might it mean that in Nebraska, there are 200 teachers looking for work, not necessarily that it's a great job? Let's think about that one.
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McDonalds is an excellent job for some people. It may not be a good job for someone with a college degree but for some people that may not have the skills or education to work elsewhere I am sure that it is a very good job. I don't think it is a
valid comparision.

It's absolutely valid. You know that what I meant to challenge was that the number of applicants doesn't necessarily equate to the quality of the job, though it could. Just b/c a lot of people apply to be a garbageman doesn't mean it's considered a quality job. The same goes with McDonalds and teaching positions, as well.

_____________________________________________________6) "My complaint would be that there are a few teachers that feel that there job is the only important job and constantly complain about everything relating to the job. 'I don't get paid enough, I have to work at night, I have to go to meetings, etc.' I think that those teachers need to realize that all of the things mentioned here are things that nearly all people have to deal with in regards to their job. I work in sales..." Do you make $30 to $40k a year in your sales job? I would say you probably make about double that, at least. At that level, increased money means increased responsibility, as well it should. More money equals more responsibility and more work in most every job. However, as you say, teachers have to do that too, but I think they're complaining b/c they have the same responsibilities, time constraints, meetings, etc... as we do, but they're only getting paid $30 to $40k (at best, as I've illustrated) to do it, so they often feel a little short-changed. And I think they are.

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According to the census the average teacher makes 44,700 dollars per year. This is the average so certainly many people make much more than this. That is a very respectable salary.

Here is a link: http://www.census.gov/Press-Release...cts_for_features_special_editions/001737.html
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Not necessarily true. What if the range of salaries only went from $43,700 to $45,700. Then approx. half would make more, and half less, but the average would be the same, and "many people" wouldn't "make much more" than that, b/c $1k isn't much more. We don't know what people make, and that number is also not adjusted to index for purchasing power, as I explained above. $44,7 might be a decent salary in KY, but not necessarily in NYC or in CA. Also, since that is the average, many teachers make less than that, as well.
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7) "If you want a job that doesn't have responsibily that extends past the work day and work week than you should find one but you will also find that these jobs generally don't pay enough to allow trips to Disney." Gee, I think you just made my entire point in these few words. Teachers have the responsibilities, but not the pay to correspond.

8) "Again I will say that I think that almost all teachers are wonderful hard working people that love what they do and don't complain but there are a few that believe that being a teacher entitles them to special privlages and they always seem to be the most vocal." I would agree with that, but let's not use the vocal few to categorize the hard-working majority.

My point is that they are vastly under-appreciated, and that many of the arguments presented here are invalid on their face, as I've pointed out. Let's give teachers a break. Maybe if we paid them more, we could hold them to a higher standard, but since we don't, let's at least let them vacation when they want to. Keep in mind that it is often cheaper to vacation outside of the summer months, due to decreased hotel rates, so maybe they're trying to use their money wisely to stretch it as far as possible.

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[Mike Bartenhagen]

True, but you then have to look at the real dollars (in terms of purchasing power) brought home. $50k in California might equate to $30k in KY, while $50k in KY might equate to $80k in CA. Just b/c a teacher makes $30-40k, which not all do, doesn't mean they're doing well.

How is this specific to teachers? Look at the statistics. Teachers in California on average make about 25K more than teachers in South Dakota. The examples you mentioned are factored in. The average salary for teachers is not the same in every state nor is the average cost of living. It is all relative as in every other job.

Yes, there are, but we're looking at averages here, so I used a common 40 hour week, FT average. Not unreasonable. Keep in mind, also, that not all teachers know how to paint, and even if all did, all teachers who wanted to paint in the summer wouldn't be able to find enough work to keep them all busy. And painting 2 1/2 houses per week is a pretty tall order, if we're talking the whole house, especially for teachers who aren't experienced painters. Might want to find another example, like tutoring kids, working in daycare centers, office work, etc..., which might be more applicable to the average teacher. Nice try, though.

You asked for an example and I gave you one that actually exists. It happens in my town so it is possible. It wasn't a try, it was a real world example. Teachers can do more than tutoring, office work, or watching kids.

Based on my definition, this still wouldn't be a part-time job. That's still working, according to your statistics, which aren't valid for every school district but we'll use them, approx. 77% of the 260 days the average corp. worker would work, but this doesn't count holidays, etc... 77%, in my opinion, still isn't PT.

Can you tell me any full time job in which you are required to only work 3/4 of the time? I would have a hard time convincing my employer of this. As I said before I would consider teaching a full time job with several weeks of paid vacation in the summer.

It's absolutely valid. You know that what I meant to challenge was that the number of applicants doesn't necessarily equate to the quality of the job, though it could. Just b/c a lot of people apply to be a garbageman doesn't mean it's considered a quality job. The same goes with McDonalds and teaching positions, as well.

Are you suggesting that 200 people applied for an awful low paying job? I think it is fair to suggest that the number of people that apply for a job is a good indication of the quality of the job in respect to the people applying for the job. I would say that different jobs are of a different quality for different people. While you might not consider McDonalds or collecting trash a good job I am sure there are many that do. I am sure that if 200 people applied for a job at McDonalds many would be people still in High School. I don't think this would be true for the teaching jobs. I am sure the majority of the 200 applicants had college degrees and were qualified for many other jobs but choose to apply here because they considered it a good job.

Not necessarily true. What if the range of salaries only went from $43,700 to $45,700. Then approx. half would make more, and half less, but the average would be the same, and "many people" wouldn't "make much more" than that, b/c $1k isn't much more. We don't know what people make, and that number is also not adjusted to index for purchasing power, as I explained above. $44,7 might be a decent salary in KY, but not necessarily in NYC or in CA. Also, since that is the average, many teachers make less than that, as well.

You continue to raise the point of purchasing power. How is that different from any other job? Are you suggesting that teachers in KY, NYC, and CA make the same amount of money? If that was true (which we know it is not) than you would have a valid point but teachers in CA make more than teachers in KY so purchaing power would be similar.

We know that your statement about the minimum salary of 43,700 can't be correct because you said your MIL made 25K per year so we know that the range starts at no more than that. There are 6.2 million teachers in the U.S. and I think it would be absurd to think that they only have 2,000 seperating their salaries. There are teachers that make below the average and above. The teachers in more rural areas and those with less experience make less just like every other job. You also said that not everywhere pays 30 to 40K per year so based on your statement in order to get to an average of 44K we would have to have a good portion of people in the 50 to 60K range. The average teachers salary in CA is 54,300 per year so just as in nearly every other job in this country location is factored in. In any job many people make above and below the average. That is how it becomes the average. In my opinion 44,700 is a respectable salary If you don't consider this a respectable average what would you suggest it should be? As in any job there will be people that are underpaid and there will be people that are overpaid. That is the nature of the beast.

As I said earlier I think if teachers want a week off during the year they are welcome to take it. It wouldn't bother me. I also think that a job that pays an average of 44,000 dollars per year and allows for a few weeks of free time during the year and several weeks of free time during the summer is a pretty good job.

 

[Strings]

If the teachers has X number of vacation, personal, and sick days coming to them, and they want to use them to go on vacation. I say go for it.

 

[tinkerbeth]

Eee-chee-wah-wah. This is getting heavy.

I just have to say:

hokiefan33 - I wish you were my principal. Or better yet, my superintendant, and

A Mickeyfan - send me deets of the teaching situation if you can...I just might look into that. As much as I love 5 months of winter...

Beth

 

[eeyore kelly]

I volunteer and work as a sub in my DS and DD's school district.
I am amazed at how many people think that summer breaks,etc. are paid. They are not. A lot of people complain that the teachers get a 45 minute "off-hour" a day. This off hour is spent trying to make copies, deciding what to copy b/c they are only allowed so many copies a month, meeting with other teachers for mandatory weekly grade level meeting, taking parents phone call or meeting with parents. Oh yeah, and they try to take a bathroom break in that time. Some off hour!

I live in Louisiana, and we get Mardi Gras Vacation the Monday and Tuesday before Ash Wednesday. We are taking our kids to WDW in 2006 during that vacation. However, they will miss the Friday before and Wed.-Fri. after. I hope and pray that the teachers will work with me. To be quite honest, I expect them to. (DS will be in 6th grade and DD will be in 3rd.)

If I can do it and expect the teachers to work with me, I would not only support my teachers doing it, but I would make sure they knew about the DIS.

As for subs, most subs are very capable of running a class, and if they are not, they are not called back.

I say go for it. Disney or Bust.

 

[Belle0101]

I haven't read through all the posts yet but as to whether I feel it's okay for my child's teacher to be out for a week at WDW?

Our school's policy is that no absence is excused excpet for illness and if it's a lengthy illness the child needs a doctor's note to return. For an absence other than an illness the student will not be given a chance to make up the missed work. They are given an automatic zero.

Having said that, last year my son's teacher did take a week off, not around a holiday so as to make a long weekend, and vacationed in Washington D.C..

I don't know what the policy is for the teachers but I do question what kind of example that sets to say teachers can take off but not students?

And last year my son did have doctor's appointments for which I had to pick him up from school 20 minutes before school let out, this was every Wednesday. I got so much flack from the school for it. Truly, it was unbelievable. Whereas the teacher later in the year was leaving an hour early once every week.

Really I guess my only concern is that if it's okay for the staff then it should also be okay for the students.

**Edit**
Wanted to add the my son was in 3rd grade last year. And that I don't know why the teacher was leaving early or if she caught any flack for it, I didn't ask. I just know that I caught a lot of flack for him missing the last 20 minutes of school each Wednesday for a doctor's appt..

 

[bluedietcoke04]

Regardless of your job, if your job allows you to take off the time then go for it. I bet that these people who are saying they have a problem with a teacher going on vacation would still take a vacation themselves from their job if given the chance. You could debate that this is a teacher and they have responsibities, but so does every other job, otherwise why would they need you? Every working person deserves a vacation, and as long as that job is ok with it then go and have fun in Disney or where ever you decided to go (even if it is your own livingroom)! Time for yourself is essential for remaining yourself.

 

[Stimpy]

I'm a little curious about teachers and vacation time. Are teachers given "vacation" days along with personal and sick days?

As far as I know, the teachers around here are NOT given additional vacation days. They are supposed to use the same school vacation days as the students. IF they have additional vacation days in their contracts, then I don't think anyone can tell them what they can and can't do with that time. But if they are putting together personal and sick days for a vacation, and like in our district, parents are strongly discourgaged and the children are penalized for taking the kids out of school, it's not right.

 

[cboudre1]

We do not get vacation days in our school district. We get 3 personal days that we can build up to 10 and sick days. We can go out of town with the personal days but they can not be added on to the district vacations or days off. You can not use sick days to go to WDW.

 

[susy]

Okay, I jumped in late, but no way in your know where am I painting any houses in the summer . I live in Florida-you just don't do that!!!

 

[susy]

As a future teacher (1 year left till my masters is done), it is both the responsibility of the teacher AND students to be in class each and everyday, unless there is an illness or death in the family. A day added on to a three day weekend probably would not make much of a difference (it would be a full day's work, just like if you were out due to illness). A whole week is another story. That's a LOT of work (in my class, at least). If a student is going to Disney during the school year to avoid crowds, then I should also be able to do so. Their role is the class is to learn what I teach. How can they do that if they aren't there? On the other hand, if I'm not there and they are, they will still learn (the work is the same all day long, no matter who is in the room).

 

[sarahsmom73]

I am a teacher and if we take more than 2 personal days in a row we have to get special dispensation form our superintedent. I doubt very highly he would grant it, but you never know... (then again as much as I love WDW I don't think I could do it.. I would feel very guilty about missing class time.. I hardly ever even call in sick....)

edited to add..

As for addtional vacation time, I wouldn't consider personal days vacation time... They are supposed to be used for appointments etc...

On the other hand, I bet there isn't a teacher out there that doesn't at the very least think about school during weekends and vacations at some point...

 

[susy]

I am lucky because I live in FL-I can get away for a quick weekend anytime. I'll be the one by the pool grading papers and working on lesson plans!!!! My kids will say, "Mrs. Brown, what's this mark on my paper?" I'll reply "Don't worry honey, that's just a little Lapu Lapu!" Then again, it would probably be unethical to actually grade papers while enjoying a Lapu Lapu!

 

[sarahsmom73]

See... a teacher's job never ends!

 

[SKFamily]

My dh is a teacher. "Vacation time" is not in the agreement. He cannot book time off during the year, besides two days/year for personal reasons. Teachers don't have to justify taking those two days - they are there to be taken for whatever they are needed for. And although they aren't "supposed" to be used to extend other vacation time if the reason is good enough it can be approved. (ie: if we had gone on holidays at Easter like originally planned, he could have used a personal day right before we left) He gets time for doctor's appointments, etc so we don't use them for that either. Actually, he didn't even use his "personal" days last year. Teachers have requested extra time off for vacation and are turned down every time. They are given the option, however, to take the time unpaid. So, we went to Disneyland during the "busy season".

So I guess the answer to your question is.... it's a moot point since teacher's generally can't do it anyway.

 

[JungleJim]

My wife and I are both teachers (I teach junior high science and my wife high school science). First, I would never take a vacation during the school year. Second, we are not allowed to!

As far as kids taking vacations....sometimes it's unavoidable. But parents do need to understand their district's policy. In our district, it is an unexcused absence. There is a vacation form that the student should take around and have signed by the teachers. But the teachers, since it is an unexcused absence, do not have to let students make up the work. On our official vacation form, it states that some assignments (ie: labs) may be impossible to make up. Please don't pull your kid for a week and expect me to stay after school and set up a lab just for your child.

Timing is also important. Don't pull your kids toward the end of a grading term, then expect them not to receive an "incomplete" the grade card.

Also, don't expect the teacher to give the student every single assignment prior to leaving.

All of that being said, we have a 2 yr old who attends a different district than the one we teach in. We might have to deal with his district having different breaks than we do (ie: spring bread before/after Easter). We will have to make the decision about whether to pull him during the week we might have our break.

Try to be reasonable and give plenty of notice.

Back to the thread topic....
I've known some teachers to lie and call in sick if they're taking a "long" weekend somewhere (skiing, Vegas). We don't do it because I don't think it's moral. We "play by the rules". We get more days off, but we can't choose. It's all a compromise.

I personally wouldn't want my child's to have a sub because his teacher is at Disney. I don't know any district that allows that, unless it's without pay. My wife and I certainly cannot afford to be docked a weeks pay for both of our salaries (Imagine what Disney would cost us ;-) )