Oh boy.

[WL Fan]

I probably would have told the other mom "thanks", and that would have been it. It wouldn't even occur to me that the bus driver should be fired, or spanked, or anything like that. I'm not that suspicious, I guess.

 

[Liberty Belle]

This just makes me a little sad. Yes, there are rules, etc. But this was an unusual situation. Obviously it was very cold if the bus was stuck in ice. I wouldn't want anyone, adult or child stuck on a cold bus. I can totally picture myself or any other mom in our neighborhood picking up the kids and dropping them off. This is common sense.

This situation is where you have common sense vs bureaucracy. Before anyone jumps on me, yes, I understand rules. I understand I could in theory be a psycho picking up random neighborhood kids. But my kids have the same bus drivers for many years. We parents do what needs doing. If there's a delay due to weather, the SAHMs will stay with the kids at the bus stop, while the working moms get to work, etc. Our older dd's bus has broken down in the neighborhood, and parents have jumped in to get all kids home. In short, there are exceptions due to unusual circumstances.

I understand and that's why I'm torn on whether or not to say something. I haven't and I think I'm leaning towards not. BUT what if the bus driver does not get reprimanded and then lets another child go with someone she shouldn't?

I know at the school I worked in, they were extremely strict about who the children could leave with. One time a dad came in and tried to get their child and he did not have custody (due to abuse). More than once a drunk parent came and picked up their child and we had to call police. I'm sure the bus driver wouldn't have noticed (from what the mom said) if one of these parents had been drinking.

It's sad that these rules have to be in place, but they do.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I probably would have told the other mom "thanks", and that would have been it. It wouldn't even occur to me that the bus driver should be fired, or spanked, or anything like that. I'm not that suspicious, I guess.

Suspicious? What do you mean?

 

[Liberty Belle]

Does the bus normally drop off at each child's house? Is it standard to have a parent meeting all the kids at the bus stop?

I'm just wondering because the year my elementary child rode the bus I could tell you there were children that came to the bus stop that the driver NEVER saw the parent the entire year.

The kids were dropped off at stops and then scattered to go to their homes. The bus driver would have no idea if the child ever made it to the house as some of them you couldn't even see from the bus stop. Ours is one of them, the stop was up the road and around the corner. Actually even the Middle School & High School bus stops you can't see our house either.

There were usually 3, sometimes 4 of us regular parents that were always there at pick-up or drop-off, so I could see a situation where the bus driver would have seen any of us and knew us from that stop & knew which kids were at that stop but didn't know all the kids parents.

I do find it interesting that every single kid was willing to go with a parent without so much as asking for a code word as some are taught or saying no for getting into their car. Unless they DID question it and the monitor told them it was OK to do. In that case, definitely the monitors fault (we don't have monitors on our busses though so ??? on that).

The bus driver normally drops the kids off at various stops ( I mean, same child always same stop, but there are many stops in our subdivision). Sometimes parents are there waiting and other times not. The only rules about that are the monitor has to check each child's backpack bus tag as they leave the bus and if the child is in kindergarten a parent or approved adult has to be at the stop to pick up the child (ID's are check every single time, even if they monitor comes to know the parents).

And thank you for bringing up the last part. I hadn't even thought of that! Duh. And I just had a talk with my son about three days ago telling him not to take a ride from someone unless they had our family code word.

 

[dicar123]

This would bother me termendously and I would say something.

When my son was in middle school, his whole class missed their going home buses. He called me, and before I could tell him, "Yes, I'll come to get you," the Principal took the phone.

The Principal offered to bring him home. Um, no offense but I don't really know you, so I'll come and pick my kid up. I went to the school and my son was not there.

The secretary had told my son to walk down to the elementary school (the two schools are connected) and get on Bus Number so-and-so, that will take him home. And he did. Why? Because I hadn't had a chance to tell him I was coming and the Principal didn't tell him I was on my way.

I was LIVID! When I spoke to the Principal about it, he did not apologize. And poo-pooed my concerns about rules, procedures and how bad things happen when people just start throwing decisions around.

I don't think it is any coincidence or accident that in such an atmosphere of "anything goes and rules don't mean much", that this same son was hit by a car and killed on a field trip several years later.

The Superintendent, in that case, also refused to agree that rules were broken (the permission slip said they were going to a museum and staying all day, but they stopped to eat on the way home and the kids were allowed to go where ever they wanted within visual distance, with no adult supervision at all...the teachers were still on the bus when my son was killed). He decided this wasn't wrong, or against the rules...it was a "judgement call".

Be wary of these people.

 

[Liberty Belle]

This would bother me termendously and I would say something.

When my son was in middle school, his whole class missed their going home buses. He called me, and before I could tell him, "Yes, I'll come to get you," the Principal took the phone.

The Principal offered to bring him home. Um, no offense but I don't really know you, so I'll come and pick my kid up. I went to the school and my son was not there.

The secretary had told my son to walk down to the elementary school (the two schools are connected) and get on Bus Number so-and-so, that will take him home. And he did. Why? Because I hadn't had a chance to tell him I was coming and the Principal didn't tell him I was on my way.

I was LIVID! When I spoke to the Principal about it, he did not apologize. And poo-pooed my concerns about rules, procedures and how bad things happen when people just start throwing decisions around.

I don't think it is any coincidence or accident that in such an atmosphere of "anything goes and rules don't mean much", that this same son was hit by a car and killed on a field trip several years later.

The Superintendent, in that case, also refused to agree that rules were broken (the permission slip said they were going to a museum and staying all day, but they stopped to eat on the way home and the kids were allowed to go where ever they wanted within visual distance, with no adult supervision at all...the teachers were still on the bus when my son was killed). He decided this wasn't wrong, or against the rules...it was a "judgement call".

Be wary of these people.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[Tink888]

This just makes me a little sad. Yes, there are rules, etc. But this was an unusual situation. Obviously it was very cold if the bus was stuck in ice. I wouldn't want anyone, adult or child stuck on a cold bus. I can totally picture myself or any other mom in our neighborhood picking up the kids and dropping them off. This is common sense.

This situation is where you have common sense vs bureaucracy. Before anyone jumps on me, yes, I understand rules. I understand I could in theory be a psycho picking up random neighborhood kids. But my kids have the same bus drivers for many years. We parents do what needs doing. If there's a delay due to weather, the SAHMs will stay with the kids at the bus stop, while the working moms get to work, etc. Our older dd's bus has broken down in the neighborhood, and parents have jumped in to get all kids home. In short, there are exceptions due to unusual circumstances.

I agree with this.

Shouldn't the monitor have been stopping the parents as well?

Yes the bus driver broke protocol and she will most likely be reprimanded. But to me, a lot of things went wrong after the bus got stuck.

1. Bus driver allowed kids to leave with someone else.
2. Monitor allowed this as well.
3. The other Mom should not have taken any other child but her own.
4. At 8 years old, your son is old enough to know he shouldn't have gotten into an unapproved parent's car.

To me, everyone found themselves in a bad situation and did the best they could with the best intentions. If it was me, and my child was home and safe, I'd just feel thankful and let this one go.

 

[Reddy]

what was the temp?? you said ice so if the weather was freezing then getting the kids home safe is the top concern - could be the bus driver knew each of these parents that helped & was thinking get the home ASAP. apparently the kids knew the parents to trust them enough to go with them without questioning.

monitors??? the only buses here that have those are the special needs buses only - that is more for helping with loading & unloading wheelchairs & watching siezures kids (my son here)

 

[Klismania]

This just makes me a little sad. Yes, there are rules, etc. But this was an unusual situation. Obviously it was very cold if the bus was stuck in ice. I wouldn't want anyone, adult or child stuck on a cold bus. I can totally picture myself or any other mom in our neighborhood picking up the kids and dropping them off. This is common sense.

This situation is where you have common sense vs bureaucracy. Before anyone jumps on me, yes, I understand rules. I understand I could in theory be a psycho picking up random neighborhood kids. But my kids have the same bus drivers for many years. We parents do what needs doing. If there's a delay due to weather, the SAHMs will stay with the kids at the bus stop, while the working moms get to work, etc. Our older dd's bus has broken down in the neighborhood, and parents have jumped in to get all kids home. In short, there are exceptions due to unusual circumstances.

Exactly. Kids have built in senses of stranger-danger. If he'd never known the other kid or the adult woman who drove him home, I'm sure he'd have been making a stink before ever getting into her car. It seems as though he did know the other child and his mother and arrived home safely, which is all that really matters.

We're not talking a strange man driving up to the scene of the accident, choosing one child out of many, and offering a ride home here. We're talking a woman that the bus driver has probably seen often, the child seems comfortable with this woman, and a situation there's been an accident and most of the children are frightened and cold. #1 concern is safety for the children. If the boy wants to go with this woman and his friend, I wouldn't stop them.

I probably would have told the other mom "thanks", and that would have been it. It wouldn't even occur to me that the bus driver should be fired, or spanked, or anything like that. I'm not that suspicious, I guess.

MTE. I'd rather another child's mother saw to the safety of my child during an accident in bad weather than leave him behind at the scene of that accident because "it's the rules". I'd be most grateful to her and to God that it wasn't worse than it was and focus on the well-being of my child rather than nit-pick about the way he was delivered from harm.

 

[Liberty Belle]

what was the temp?? you said ice so if the weather was freezing then getting the kids home safe is the top concern - could be the bus driver knew each of these parents that helped & was thinking get the home ASAP. apparently the kids knew the parents to trust them enough to go with them without questioning.

monitors??? the only buses here that have those are the special needs buses only - that is more for helping with loading & unloading wheelchairs & watching siezures kids (my son here)

I think it was in the high twenties, not sure.

Yes, and I do think that's why the parents got the kids and probably why the driver and monitor let them go, but they do have rules about releasing kids and the school system is very strict about it.

I think all the buses have monitors here.

 

[torinsmom]

The bus driver should have a list of emergency numbers for parents. He should have called(or had the monitor call) parents and let them know what was going on. That way, parents would have had the option to come get their kids, or give verbal permission for other parents to take them home.

 

[horseshowmom]

This is a tough situation. I work for a school district and know how many rules and guidelines you have to follow - mainly to make sure the children are protected but also to make sure you cover yourself. The driver and monitor opened the school district up to a huge potential liability.

Where I live, most of the parents of the kids on a bus would know each other (probably well), but the drivers still aren't supposed to allow a student to go anywhere else without a bus slip. The driver and the monitor (we don't have monitors) made bad decisions with probably good intentions.

OP, having worked in the Central Office, I'm pretty sure the powers that be have already heard about it. I'm torn about whether I would say anything or not, but I probably would mention it in a way that indicated I wasn't looking for the driver's and monitor's heads, but that it was something that needed to be reviewed as another poster mentioned. I'm positive no harm was intended, but I also understand where others are coming from regarding potential safety (and regardless of what we like to think, we don't always know who is safe and who is not).

Things didn't used to be so complicated, did they?

 

[Klismania]

I think it was in the high twenties, not sure.

Yes, and I do think that's why the parents got the kids and probably why the driver and monitor let them go, but they do have rules about releasing kids and the school system is very strict about it. I think all the buses have monitors here.

If we were talking everyday here, I might agree with you. However, we're not talking every day. We're talking about a bus in a ditch during bad road conditions and low temperatures. Rules go out the window when it comes to the health and well-being of your passengers. Heck, if I were there getting my kid I'd be the one saying, "Hey! I've got three more open spaces here. Anyone else want a ride?" and I'd take it upon myself to make sure those precious children got home to their mothers.

Besides that, I see absolutely no one else here putting themselves into the bus-driver's shoes and thinking about what the bus-driver must have been going through during all this. She was probably shocked and shaken that it happened in the first place, concerned about potential injuries and preventing more injury if the children leave the bus, stuck in a ditch waiting for another bus and/or a tow truck, worried about how cold it is and getting all these kids home before they freeze or it gets dark.

She's already facing some kind of reprimand or penalties at work because even if the accident wasn't her fault, it will be seen as her fault. I'm sure the school will already want some kind of explanation for why it happened and how the children who didn't board the rescue bus got home. Does more really need to be added on top of that?

 

[Becky2005]

I think all the buses have monitors here.

Then in this case, I'm thinking it was the monitor's issue not the bus drivers.

It sounds to me like the role of the monitor is to deal with the children and the role of the bus driver is to deal with the bus.

The driver WAS dealing with the bus. It was the monitor's job to deal with the children.

At least that is the way I'm understanding it. It is only on the special needs busses we have monitors so I'm not sure how they work & we have the same Kindergarten rule but they don't check ID's. However, we have 1/2 day Kindergarten and it works a little differently.

I don't think I would have said anything since it's such an unusual circumstance and obviously you have had dealings with this mom in the past so she felt comfortable bringing your child home instead of just leaving him there on the cold bus because of the thought she could be causing problems. This is why I hate getting involved in anything, I'm always afraid no matter how much the good intention it was, it will be the "no good deed goes unpunished".

 

[Liberty Belle]

I just asked my son why he went with her and didn't ask her for the family code word. He said he forgot and felt ok going with her because other kids were going with her.

I think he would have been fine staying on the bus because another bus was, apparently, headed that way. I think they must have come from the bus garage, though, which is about 20-30 minutes away. I'm not upset with the mom. I told her I appreciated her bringing him home.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Then in this case, I'm thinking it was the monitor's issue not the bus drivers.

It sounds to me like the role of the monitor is to deal with the children and the role of the bus driver is to deal with the bus.

The driver WAS dealing with the bus. It was the monitor's job to deal with the children.

At least that is the way I'm understanding it. It is only on the special needs busses we have monitors so I'm not sure how they work & we have the same Kindergarten rule but they don't check ID's. However, we have 1/2 day Kindergarten and it works a little differently.

I don't think I would have said anything since it's such an unusual circumstance and obviously you have had dealings with this mom in the past so she felt comfortable bringing your child home instead of just leaving him there on the cold bus because of the thought she could be causing problems. This is why I hate getting involved in anything, I'm always afraid no matter how much the good intention it was, it will be the "no good deed goes unpunished".

Yes, I do think the monitor holds responsibility. The reason I think it will come down on the bus driver, though, is because, I believe, she is the monitor's supervisor. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Liberty Belle]

The bus driver should have a list of emergency numbers for parents. He should have called(or had the monitor call) parents and let them know what was going on. That way, parents would have had the option to come get their kids, or give verbal permission for other parents to take them home.

The secretary I spoke with at the school said she was getting ready to call all the parents.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I would report her and honestly wouldn't care if she was fired over it, she should have known better.

My thoughts exactly. The bus driver does not get to decide who drives my kid around town.

 

[luvmy3]

If we were talking everyday here, I might agree with you. However, we're not talking every day. We're talking about a bus in a ditch during bad road conditions and low temperatures. Rules go out the window when it comes to the health and well-being of your passengers. Heck, if I were there getting my kid I'd be the one saying, "Hey! I've got three more open spaces here. Anyone else want a ride?" and I'd take it upon myself to make sure those precious children got home to their mothers.

True, although when an accident or break down happens another bus is dispatched almost immediately (at least around here) so if we are talking waiting an hour on a freezing cold bus in a dangerous position I would agree, but breakdowns/accidents happen everyday and in all kinds of weather. I don't believe that rules just go out the window in these situations, they are in place for a reason so the bus driver should not have let children off with parents they may or may not have known without permission to do so. Maybe there needs to be new rules put in place for situations like this, but they should never just be "thrown out the window".

 

[Klismania]

I would report her and honestly wouldn't care if she was fired over it, she should have known better.

True, although when an accident or break down happens another bus is dispatched almost immediately (at least around here) so if we are talking waiting an hour on a freezing cold bus in a dangerous position I would agree, but breakdowns/accidents happen everyday and in all kinds of weather. I don't believe that rules just go out the window in these situations, they are in place for a reason so the bus driver should not have let children off with parents they may or may not have known without permission to do so. Maybe there needs to be new rules put in place for situations like this, but they should never just be "thrown out the window".

IF a dangerous situation happens my only concern would be the safety and well-being of my child. Rules be damned. I don't want the person on the scene wasting precious seconds going over bureaucracy in their heads and running down a list of what is allowed and what isn't. I want that person getting my kid out of harm's way.

If my child isn't safe in a particular situation but isn't being removed from that situation because the school or monitor couldn't reach me to obtain my permission, I'd be more angry (not to mention grieving) if the opportunity was passed by and my child was injured or killed because the official in charge was following the rules (or, more likely, covering her butt against future repercussions such as angry parents screaming for heads).

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. IMO, common sense and human decency is quickly leaving us and putting our children in more danger than any 'rule' would protect us from. Monday morning quarterbacking, powertripping, and following the urge to reprimand others and get them fired when everything turned out all right is one of the reasons why.