Official Thread - New commercial use policy published 03/31

[Girlstar30]

A few weeks ago Disney sent cease and desists letters to third party providers of services like photography, cottage bakers, room decorators, etc. Basically people that were making an income off of resort guests. I think this policy update is in keeping with that theme, by finally reducing the amount of people making a profit off of the actual accommodations. Wait there’s more! … they also began restricting resort busses at Disney Springs to registered guests or dining patrons. It’s like Christmas the resorts are finally feeling some love.

Disney should offer room decorating services, ive wanted that more than once. Ive used an offsite cake company that delivers before I wonder how they feel about that given that vgf makes cakes

 

[Wedgeout]

They need a warning system. Think we have Olaf looking for his head, the 7 Dwarfs acting like they are working, Rex for when something is a mess….they just need to add Roz to the mix. I know if I hit confirm and she popped up before getting the congratulations notice, I’d sit up straight fast and get an irritable tingle in my stomach.

 

[Sandisw]

According to the FL stat they can’t limit how many times I’m allowed to rent. That’s for any limitation after 2021(IIRC)
Before and way back in 2011 members were allowed to rent and make 20 reservations per 12 months per UY. Those numbers have been in force up until now.
They can’t limit that number. If you go above it’s a different matter.
Commercial use was defined as more than 20 reservations per rolling 12 months unless you could satisfy to the board that all 20 wasn’t.

I agree they can change what they consider commercial use but they can’t limit the number of reservations we can make and rent.

Yes and no. The law requires an owners vote if they decide to add further limitations on renting… true.

The 2011 policy did not define how many of the 20 could be rentals, but DVCs interpretation seemed to be that it didn’t matter.

They still left the 20 as a threshold…which I think is significant…but clarified how many of the first 20 can trigger the notion it’s commercial..they have now said a majority. That allows them flexibility as majority could be 11 or it could be 18 or whatever number they choose and it could even be owner dependent.

ETA. My opinion is that they did this to make it easier to enforce because it makes rules clear for owners, which is what I have always been advised was important.

iMO, that is not a change that falls under the statute. Some of the other things they mention I’m not so sure..but I think what they did is really help to outline that a pattern is about volume and that other factors present just support the case.

Personally, I think this seems to address aspects in a way that really allows for a good balance to preserve our right to rent, and to a good degree, but at the same time make clear that running a business not allowed.

 

[JulieBeeRN]

I would like a balance between the commercial renters and us.

 

[PolyRob]

A few weeks ago Disney sent cease and desists letters to third party providers of services like photography, cottage bakers, room decorators, etc. Basically people that were making an income off of resort guests. I think this policy update is in keeping with that theme, by finally reducing the amount of people making a profit off of the actual accommodations. Wait there’s more! … they also began restricting resort busses at Disney Springs to registered guests or dining patrons. It’s like Christmas the resorts are finally feeling some love.

Not to get off topic here, but I think this also involved liability considering people were bringing in outside prepared food and/or listing complete strangers as registered guests on their room reservations to allow them access to decorate a door/room which is also against Disney/DVC rules.

 

[PolyRob]

Disney should offer room decorating services, ive wanted that more than once. Ive used an offsite cake company that delivers before I wonder how they feel about that given that vgf makes cakes

WDW had an in-house service that did this, but it stopped offering that in 2023. There is now an "official" approved outside company linked on the WDW website: https://magicalfloralandgifts.com/

 

[PolyRob]

They need a warning system. Think we have Olaf looking for his head, the 7 Dwarfs acting like they are working, Rex for when something is a mess….they just need to add Roz to the mix. I know if I hit confirm and she popped up before getting the congratulations notice, I’d sit up straight fast and get an irritable tingle in my stomach.

How about Olaf falling backwards and having his nose pop off? (too soon DLP?)

 

[Girlstar30]

WDW had an in-house service that did this, but it stopped offering that in 2023. There is now an "official" approved outside company linked on the WDW website: https://magicalfloralandgifts.com/

Not a lot of options here unfortunately, I wish they would decorate the room like the cruise line. Or I should say not a lot of options I think are cute

 

[Wedgeout]

How about Olaf falling backwards and having his nose pop off? (too soon DLP?)

Yeah too soon . That was like seeing two Mickeys on Main Street. I need a therapist.

 

[PolyRob]

Yeah too soon . That was like seeing two Mickeys on Main Street. I need a therapist.

The screams in the video really got me Add some of those to the booking page and people would really think twice

 

[Sandisw]

Of course, they drop this when I am enjoying My favorite place. Riviera. Here are my random thoughts.

DVC did exactly what they indicated to me in alll my conversations. Rules and policy would be updated in official documents if changes would be happen and owners would know they have been updated.

The new policy is detailed and clarifies many of the areas of ambiguity that the 2011 document did not.

IMO, it makes clear that wha the contract and law prohibit is using DVC as a commercial enterprise and that volume of rentals, along with other things, are factors that can be seen as clues who have moved from renting at levels that are your right vs. not.

They also made clear what can happen if one is found in violation, which is what I have always been advised was important and I am happy to see that DVC has been as detailed as they have been.

There are some things at first glance I am not sure about, but that’s a conversation not for the boards.

At least we have a much clearer understanding of DVCs position and that as owners, they seem to be defining it collectively but also left room to make decisions at the owner level.

 

[Sandisw]

Technically you own a specific unit in a specific resort. So not sure you have the right under Florida law to rent out a BLT reservation with points for your SSR unit. Perhaps why they say one of the actions is to prohibit you from using your points at other than your home resort??

I saw that clause and it gave me pause, but this makes it make sense. We have the right to rent what we own, but you are right, the trading is an exchange. .

So, I can now see how that could be something limited if they want to limit trading for rental purposes.

I never even thought about it in that way.

 

[Sandisw]

I agree that it says that. My point was that many have claimed they can rent 20 reservations out in a year and not be violating commercial use rules. I do not agree with that, unless they are personally using 21 reservations I guess. I think anyone that hits 11 rentals should be scrutinized (11 being the majority of 20).
DVC could say that a person that makes 5 reservations a year, uses 2 themselves but rents out 3 of them also violates commercial use rules since the majority of their reservations are not for their own use. But I don't think Disney will go there.

I'm very pro go after the big offenders.
I'm also very pro allow a person to rent out their points from time to time.

Additionally, I keep saying reservations, but it's also # of points. If I use 100 points but rent out 1000, that will draw concern too--

View attachment 1060951

Prior to the updated policy, DVC themselves, based on enforcement and what owners were told, they did indeed allow people to have all 20 be in the names of others.

That is why I think this updated policy is more specific because DVC has decided they want to enforce differently .

Because the old 2011 policy said enforcement didn’t kick in until after 20, and DVC only acted when above 20, the implication was it didn’t matter.

Now, this new policy is clearer of DVCs intent..and why I mentioned earlier, what I was always advised,,,that written policy matters and that if they want to enforce the policy language needs to be clear….IMO, that is a big reason why this is now as detailed as it is for owners.

While it still gives DVC discretion when evaluating at the individual owner level, it gives pretty specific examples of what triggers things and all the potential consequences that can occur.

 

[Moonspinner]

I was tempted to try this, but my family would disown me if we had to move rooms even once



This is an example where curbing abuse could have negative outcomes for an innocent member. I have a friend with an elderly grandmother that no longer travels, but gifts Aulani stays as wedding presents... I imagine she would also get a letter

@PolyRob and @Flash_Sloth I was trying to respond to both of your quotes and couldn’t figure out how to do it
I started picking up days for the VDH reservation before Disney said they would be doing away with early entry. I was planning on combining the days after I got them, but months later I realized… maybe we should just keep them separate. I’ll let you guys know if it works!
I was pretty disgusted that they got rid of early entry and it makes zero sense to me why someone with a one night reservation would get 1 free ride and someone with a 6 night reservation would also get 1 free ride? Disney math.

 

[juliebee]

While it still gives DVC discretion when evaluating at the individual owner level, it gives pretty specific examples of what triggers things and all the potential consequences that can occur.

Love that DVC is being specific on the consequences. Clarity is good for everyone.

And I'm so sorry this dropped while you are on vacation! Everyone play nice so Sandi can enjoy WDW

 

[DanCali]

if you're renting out more than 11 reservations per year, you are likely a commercial renter! that's almost one reservation a month...

That seems like a very low bar on its own. A reservation can be 1 night in a studio for 10 points, or 10 nights in a 2BR for 700 points.

Say 2 owners have 800 points each.... Who's more likely the commercial renter - someone who rents 110 points as 11 one-night stays in a studio (and uses 690 points for themselves) or someone renting 700 points as a 1-night stay in a 2BR (and uses just 100 for themselves)? I guess it's debatable, but it's clear that DVC wrote the new restrictions to have maximum flexibility and discretion.

I can definitely see a lot of legit "non commercial" renters being overly cautious now though, and staying clear of the 2 or 3-night "ISO" requests. Making that market less efficient and potentially steering those renters towards short stays on cash already seems like a net gain for the mothership.

 

[Girlstar30]

Prior to the updated policy, DVC themselves, based on enforcement and what owners were told, they did indeed allow people to have all 20 be in the names of others.

That is why I think this updated policy is more specific because DVC has decided they want to enforce differently .

Because the old 2011 policy said enforcement didn’t kick in until after 20, and DVC only acted when above 20, the implication was it didn’t matter.

Now, this new policy is clearer of DVCs intent..and why I mentioned earlier, what I was always advised,,,that written policy matters and that if they want to enforce the policy language needs to be clear….IMO, that is a big reason why this is now as detailed as it is for owners.

While it still gives DVC discretion when evaluating at the individual owner level, it gives pretty specific examples of what triggers things and all the potential consequences that can occur.

Enjoy your happy place! I am jealous! ️

 

[Girlstar30]

Love that DVC is being specific on the consequences. Clarity is good for everyone.

And I'm so sorry this dropped while you are on vacation! Everyone play nice so Sandi can enjoy WDW

until Sandi returns

 

[AstroBlasters]

FWIW, I chatted with a friend of mine who rents out the majority of his 300 points every year and he said the main impact will be that he will not do small point rentals.

 

[Moonspinner]

We have a fair amount of points and have never rented any. I don’t have a problem with people renting out points and I do think it makes the product more valuable which is awesome. But I’m also against “commercial”renters and am pleased that Disney wants to go after those people. I do think as @DonMacGregor said it changes the reservation flow in a way that is inorganic. You cannot have artificial wrenches in the system if you want the system to work in a way that feels fair to owners.
I disagree a bit with the idea that this is Disney just going after renting dollars. I think they are beginning to try to listen to their customers again (after a period of taking us for granted). I am optimistic about the future of Disney because they are doing things like monitoring buses at Disney springs to make resort hopping more difficult (I know it’s just a start), guarding access to pools more, and now taking a microscope to renting behavior. Disney executives love to wax on about how they are in the grand business of “storytelling,” but really they are in the more mundane business of customer service. And if they don’t get back to it, private equity will come in and force them to get back to it.