Official Goofy 2016 Thread

[Z-Knight]

Up until 1 month ago I was running my own plan of 6 days running with 54 total miles per week. I was doing two half marathons on the weekend to prepare for dopey. Since then I switched to an actual plan to try to improve speed because my plan was simply running intervals to get me around 4 hours for the marathon. I chose the free runkeeper sub 3:45 plan from Jeff Gaudette which is kind of tame in that it is only 4 days running. First month so far and all of the runs have been instructed to run at a slower rate than I was doing before so I've purposely made them about 10% harder. I thought about doing the sub 3:30 plan but those speeds were too much for me, so I'm basically settling for something in between. The miles are low right now but will creep up to 40+ in the next couple of months...i think I will also add one more day of running on Fridays instead of doing the recumbent biking I was doing on a couple of rest days.

In looking at this sub 3:45 plan I am concerned that it has such low "fast" and "steady" speeds because I don't see how they will train me to actually finish below 3:45...they feel like perfect speeds to finish in slightly over 4 hrs. oh well, I'll know better when I actually reach the point in the plan where it will exceed in distance/time the most I've run before....so far that would be 18.6 miles in 3:00 hours doing intervals.

 

[FFigawi]

What speeds does your plan have you running? Your 16+ mile long runs for a sub-4 target should be starting at roughly 9:30 and dropping to 8:50 by the time you are done. During the week, I would expect the plan to have ladders and other similar runs that get you to an 8:00 pace or faster during the intervals. You should also have a few easy recovery runs in the 9:45-10:00 range.

 

[Ariel484]

I'm running 3 -4 days a week, and I know my weekly mileage isn't what others seem to be doing!!!but honestly, I just don't think I can fit more workouts into my week.... And keep up with Dis!!!! Lol!!

I will say though, While I'm at work I log my 10,000 steps by 1:00!!! That has to count for something!

I did print out Hal's program to try to overlap the two a bit

I mean...you're talking to someone that topped out at a 40-mile week for Goofy and a 37.5-mile week for Dopey*... You can only do what you can do within your schedule.

Maybe your MPW is different from others' MPW but that doesn't mean it's bad or wrong.

*Granted, I train for Disney races just to finish, not with a time goal in mind. If I was going for a specific time I would have probably used a more aggressive training plan.

 

[Z-Knight]

What speeds does your plan have you running? Your 16+ mile long runs for a sub-4 target should be starting at roughly 9:30 and dropping to 8:50 by the time you are done. During the week, I would expect the plan to have ladders and other similar runs that get you to an 8:00 pace or faster during the intervals. You should also have a few easy recovery runs in the 9:45-10:00 range.

It has an 8:35 to 9:10 pace...but this is supposed to be the sub 3:45 plan, which is why I was questioning how those speeds would get me to that. For that finish I have to be at 8:30 pace or better.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Have you ever done a 28-mile long run?!

Yeah, most years when training for a marathon. Only going up to 24 miles in this round, though.

 

[FFigawi]

It has an 8:35 to 9:10 pace...but this is supposed to be the sub 3:45 plan, which is why I was questioning how those speeds would get me to that. For that finish I have to be at 8:30 pace or better.

It's rare to run your long runs at race pace or faster for any significant amount of time/distance. Midweek runs are where you'll be much faster than race pace.

 

[Z-Knight]

I understand that it is hard to run at race pace, but if you don't train at faster that race pace for the long runs how can you hope to be at race pace for the full run? Basically it feels like the long training runs are all slower than race pace, so during the actual race are you just counting on some kind of adrenaline to get you to reach a pace you never reached in training? Yeah you may have done it for short distances in mid week runs but I just dont see how they can benefit if your long runs are not going faster than race pace - even a little. It probably has to do about endurance and pushing yourself late in the race - i.e. running faster while tired, etc. I don't know the science so it is confusing to me but I hope it works out. Thx

 

[IamTrike]

I understand that it is hard to run at race pace, but if you don't train at faster that race pace for the long runs how can you hope to be at race pace for the full run? Basically it feels like the long training runs are all slower than race pace, so during the actual race are you just counting on some kind of adrenaline to get you to reach a pace you never reached in training? Yeah you may have done it for short distances in mid week runs but I just dont see how they can benefit if your long runs are not going faster than race pace - even a little. It probably has to do about endurance and pushing yourself late in the race - i.e. running faster while tired, etc. I don't know the science so it is confusing to me but I hope it works out. Thx

I can't speak for all plans but the training plan I am using is based on cumulative fatigue. I do 2 runs a week that are at or faster than race pace. Both are midweek runs and for a marathon they only get up to 10 miles at race pace. On weekends my long runs are typically 1 minute or behind my race pace. You don't do your long runs at race pace because the recovery would take too long. Longs runs are about conditioning your body to handle the time on your feet. In my training plan because of the constant training my 10 mile tempo run is actually supposed to simulate the last 10 miles of race without putting the strain on your body of running a full marathon. The studies that I've read seem to show that this works.

 

[FFigawi]

Adding to what @IamTrike said above, yes, you are relying on something other than training to get you there: tapering. The few weeks of reduced mileage are designed to let your body recover from your peak training period and rest up to be at full strength on race day.

 

[Z-Knight]

Interesting. thanks for the info.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

nm...

 

[JClimacus]

Adding to what @IamTrike said above, yes, you are relying on something other than training to get you there: tapering. The few weeks of reduced mileage are designed to let your body recover from your peak training period and rest up to be at full strength on race day.

John, I just ran a 3:41 marathon on a rolling course. Definitely harder than WDW. My goal time was 3:40.... now I'm eyeing that 3:40 at Disney, but I'm running the Goofy. I'll be running the half with my kids, probably at something easy like a 9:30 pace. Do you think the half will take enough out of me that a 3:40 full is an unrealistic goal? I don't want to try something foolish. I'm doing the Higdon Intermediate II plan.

 

[FFigawi]

I think you'll be fine. 9:30 looks like an easy pace for you, well over 1 min/mile slower than your race pace. I wouldn't go any faster than that, and I'd try to mix in some photo stops too just to give your legs a break. Stay off your feet the rest of the day, recover & refuel well, and you should be fine on Sunday. I'd also practice running fast on tired legs. Do a few back to back long runs where you push harder on the second day than the first.

 

[IamTrike]

nm...

See this post has me really curious.

John, I just ran a 3:41 marathon on a rolling course. Definitely harder than WDW. My goal time was 3:40.... now I'm eyeing that 3:40 at Disney, but I'm running the Goofy. I'll be running the half with my kids, probably at something easy like a 9:30 pace. Do you think the half will take enough out of me that a 3:40 full is an unrealistic goal? I don't want to try something foolish. I'm doing the Higdon Intermediate II plan.

I had a very similar goal in 2015, but I don't think I was as well trained as you are. I also went out and ran the half faster than I should have. I wound up doing the half at 1:49. I started the full with the 3:40 pace group but started to fall apart about mile 11 and wound up with 3:59 finish. Had I taken the half slower I think it might have been doable, but while I was running that pace for the half felt slow and effortless. The only thing I would caution you on is that, 13.1 miles is still 13.1 miles even taking it slow you might not be completely fresh for the full and you might wind up hitting a wall earlier in the race than you normally would for a full marathon.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

See this post has me really curious.

LOL - my computer went funky on me in the middle of a long winded message. I had to run to a meeting and didn't have time to fix it, so I just put nm (never mind).

I have to say that I love all of the coaching on the board lately.

 

[IamTrike]

It has an 8:35 to 9:10 pace...but this is supposed to be the sub 3:45 plan, which is why I was questioning how those speeds would get me to that. For that finish I have to be at 8:30 pace or better.

I plugged your goal time into my training app and it came up with these times for you. Goal pace 8:35, Strength workouts 8:25 (essentially speedwork with 1-3 mile intervals at the higher tempo pace), Speed workouts 7:30 (Speedwork with intervals that range from .25 to .75 miles), Easy workout. 9:35 -10, Long runs 9:05-10 pace.

LOL - my computer went funky on me in the middle of a long winded message. I had to run to a meeting and didn't have time to fix it, so I just put nm (never mind).
.

I was hoping you had posted something scandalous like wishing there is a mid summer marathon in Orlando then decided to change it at the last minute.

 

[Z-Knight]

Thanks, that's good info. Currently I'm doidng my easy and long workouts at a higher pace than you have listed: 8:20 min, but that's because those are relatively short right now...plan has my next long workout to be 12 miles on sunday. I figure on a couple of weeks those long workouts will be too long for me to keep up that higher pace. But overall I am exceeding all of those paces right now, so hopefully tha means I can be on track by January. Thx

 

[JClimacus]

I think you'll be fine. 9:30 looks like an easy pace for you, well over 1 min/mile slower than your race pace. I wouldn't go any faster than that, and I'd try to mix in some photo stops too just to give your legs a break. Stay off your feet the rest of the day, recover & refuel well, and you should be fine on Sunday. I'd also practice running fast on tired legs. Do a few back to back long runs where you push harder on the second day than the first.

Great, thanks!

 

[JClimacus]

See this post has me really curious.



I had a very similar goal in 2015, but I don't think I was as well trained as you are. I also went out and ran the half faster than I should have. I wound up doing the half at 1:49. I started the full with the 3:40 pace group but started to fall apart about mile 11 and wound up with 3:59 finish. Had I taken the half slower I think it might have been doable, but while I was running that pace for the half felt slow and effortless. The only thing I would caution you on is that, 13.1 miles is still 13.1 miles even taking it slow you might not be completely fresh for the full and you might wind up hitting a wall earlier in the race than you normally would for a full marathon.

Well that's a cautionary tale. Maybe I'll just take full out easy and see how I feel after half.

 

[Optimator]

John, I just ran a 3:41 marathon on a rolling course. Definitely harder than WDW. My goal time was 3:40.... now I'm eyeing that 3:40 at Disney, but I'm running the Goofy. I'll be running the half with my kids, probably at something easy like a 9:30 pace. Do you think the half will take enough out of me that a 3:40 full is an unrealistic goal? I don't want to try something foolish. I'm doing the Higdon Intermediate II plan.

I think some of this depends on your running base.

I had only been running a little over a year when I did my first Goofy. I'd run a 3:40ish first marathon the May before and a sub-4:00 Marine Corps that October. I followed my training plan and had a good run-up for Goofy.

I ran what I thought was a conservative half on Saturday and started well for the full on Sunday. Then about the half-way point my body kind of said "A half yesterday plus a half so far today equals a full. Your done!" and it was the death march for the 2nd half.

Now, 7 or 8 Goofy's and a couple of Dopey's later, I am much better able to run a more consistent full. It may not always be faster, but it is usually appropriate based on my current level of fitness.

Of course, nowadays a successful pre-race porta-pot visit is all I really hope for. After than, it's all gravy!