observing human nature from an ECV

[faithinkarma]

Hi all,

Just back from 2 weeks at Disney having spent a lot of time just people watching. It sure is a whole different world when you are seated and looking up.

The ECV made the trip possible, but I found my shoulder muscles very tense at the end of the day from the stress of trying not to run into all the idiots who stop short in front of you or walk into you because they are so focused on their destination they just don't see you. I wanted to carry a huge sign saying HELLO PEOPLE, I HAVE NO LATERAL MOVEMENT !!! I CANNOT SIDESTEP YOU!!! I only hope I was never one of those unthinking people in healthier days.

I found it interesting that once I appeared disabled the CMs took to calling me Honey, Sweetie, or Dearie. I don't mind, I just found it a curious quirk of human nature.

I also noticed that when we passed male guests in in hotel hallways etc. they would look over me and greet my DH "Hi, how's it going?" while never ever making eye contact with me.

And, yes, I did have an encounter with one of those morons who said as I was getting on Friendship " What do I have to do to get to ride in one of those?" I quickly offered to trade him for one healthy kidney, but oddly enough, he ignored me after that. Go figure.

We took the Keys to the Kingdom tour. There was one other person in our group in a wheelchair. Not once did it ever occur to any of the other guests that if they stood in front of the two of us who were seated we could not see a thing. We were invisible to them. I guess I should have been more agressive, but that is so not in my nature.

But my faith in people was restored when we did the World Showcase tour. This time everyone in the group was most careful to make sure I was always in a position to see and hear everything. I came to the conclusion that it just takes one person to step up and do the curteous thing and the rest of the group will follow suit.

 

[dj2]

Thanks for posting. I'll be in an ecv at WDW soon with just my 7-year-old daughter and no other adult and am a little nervous about it, so it's always reassuring to hear about other people's experiences.

 

[JudithM]

Faithinkarma, thank you for sharing your observations - they are quite accurate as many of us on the disABILITIES know first hand . Don't get me started on how many guests walk in front of a moving ECV.

DJ2, relax & enjoy your trip with your seven-year old. My niece was with me one day at the Studios while her mom (my sister) & my husband were off riding rides (niece was not tall enough). We were heading towards the Villains Shop as many otherguests were coming toward us to go to Fantasmic. I just made sure she hung onto either the basket in front of my rented ECV or the handle bar area. She was very good about staying with me.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for posting.
Like Judith said, your experiences are pretty common ones.Glad to hear you had a mostly good time though.
And dj2, here's some pixie dust for a great trip.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Your experiences mimic my DW's -- we've always joked about how invisible she becomes as soon as she is seated on an ECV! I keep pestering her to let me rent one at home, then we could go on a bank robbery spree. Given the fact that when seated on an ECV, one is completely invisible (!), I figure we could make a fortune!

 

[Daisimae]

Me and my Sister traveled to WDW this year for a convention. We stayed over for four days after to enjoy the parks and I rented a much needed EVC from Care Medical.

My Sister has never been with me when I've used one before. She was astounded and amazed at the way I was treated. People asking her questions about me, waking out in front of me, rude comments etc. On the last day, when we seperated for a short time to go to different parks, I finally lost it in the MK when I was trying to exit the park. It was after the day parade no one would let me off the street and onto the sidewalk so I could get out the entrance! I beeped and yelled "excuse me" for people to stop while I inched up the access ramp.

Well, one of the people I stopped didn't like it and started screaming swears at me. I didn't return the bad language, but, thanked him for allowing me onto the curb and got out of there. I'm glad it was my last day there that time. I;m sure the same types of things will happen on our next trip.

 

[s&k'smom]

Wow thank you for sharing and reminding me. You know it's funny my mom would slap me if I was that rude to people. As the parent of a child diagnosed with mild autism I can sort of understand.

 

[nhed]

My wife, [and now I] use EVCs and have not run into any rude people.
We don't expect any special treatment, nor demand it. We are in no rush and will wait if required to get around.
EVCs take up more space than a person, and can hurt others.
There's a special responsiblity that one needs to take on when driving them, especially in a crowd.

 

[videogal1]

Originally posted by nhed
My wife, [and now I] use EVCs and have not run into any rude people.
We don't expect any special treatment, nor demand it. We are in no rush and will wait if required to get around.
EVCs take up more space than a person, and can hurt others.
There's a special responsiblity that one needs to take on when driving them, especially in a crowd.

Well, thank you for the little sermon. Do you think that because you have not run into rude people that those of us who have are
1. Making up our tales of woe?
2. Being oversensitive to the way walkers grab their "right" of way?
3. Such poor ECV operators that we cannot stop on a dime when someone steps right smack in front of the forward-moving ECV?

My special responsibility as a veteran of the ECV wars is to establish a forward path at a speed that matches the walkers around me. The walkers' responsibility is to treat my wheeled state with the same respect they would show any other motorized vehicle....stay at least two feet away. If I were a pedestrian I would never tolerate someone walking so close to me that they would step on my feet. Why should it be any different simply because I am seated? The possibility of being thrown from an ECV that stops abruptly is very real. It happened to me and, if I were to be faced with the decision to stop abruptly again or to run into an incautious and arrogant pedestrian, I think I would save my own skin first.

 

[BillSears]

Just wanted to chime in on the thread in favor of not having problems. I use a manual chair and have for the past 27 years so maybe I "drive" defensivly. But I really don't have many problems at WDW. Sure I see the people who are oblivious to where they are going but with the amount of people in the crowds at WDW you just have to learn to anticipate and dodge them.


I realize we are all different and have different needs and desires. But I just wanted to give my experience at WDW.

 

[nhed]

Originally posted by videogal1
Well, thank you for the little sermon. Do you think that because you have not run into rude people that those of us who have are

I really did not mean to make a sermon. Rather for anyone coming to this thread and seeing gloom and doom, I really wanted them to know it wasn't always the case.

I've never seen us use one in a crowd such that I could not safely stop without thought of being thrown off it. Yes, they can go fast, and if one is going too fast where people could step out, perhaps a slower selected speed could be used for the safety of the operater and the surrounding people.

Attitude has everything to do with one's experience at WDW [and other places such as this forum]. If one looks for the worst, one is surely able to find it.
I would disagree that those of us on an EVC have a greater responsiblity to maintain control at all times. If an EVC hits a walker, it will hurt them. And if that happens too oftern, they *will* be banned in the parks. And that would be too bad for all of us.

 

[Talking Hands]

I do not see that those of us in ECVs and PW have a greater responsibility to make sure we do not injure pedestrians. Walkers have as much responsibility to insure their own safety by not walking too close to those of us in PW. These are in effect our legs and feet. As to them banning ECVs and PWs. Not anytime soon. There is a law called ADA that require equal access and without my PW there is no equal access. They may decide not to rent them but they will not ban personally owned equipment.

And as to going to fast causing the problems. I have been fallen on when stationary. Dead stop but the person walking wasn't looking and fell on top of me.
And what about the person walking too fast and too close who placed his foot under my wheel and flipped my PW and me to the ground. My fault? I don't think so. Or the teen who decided he should play chicken with the me and darted diagonally in front of me at the last minute and got his heels clipped.
Or the parent who cursed me out when I told his daughter not to walk so close to the PW.

Give me a break. I've been using an ECV and now PW for 10 years now and the only place I have had problems is in Disney and in a Disney Store.
Disney Store incident I was stopped looking at a display when a 3 yo decided to grab my joy stick and play with it. His toe was broken. Who was responsible. The idiot parents for allowing him to touch the joy stick in the first place. Oh and their excuse. He does it with his uncle's chair all the time.
Some people are just idiots.

 

[SueM in MN]

People don't change just because they are at WDW. Some are naturally nice; some are rude; some patient; some impatient; some reckless; some careful.
The same people who on the highway:
tailgate, don't stay in their lane, don't pay attention to traffic, cut in too quickly, speed, stop suddenly, turn without notice or expect traffic on the highway to merge with them when they are in the merge lane will probably do those same things at WDW.
Except, instead of driving cars, some of them will be driving wheelchairs, scooters or strollers and some of them will be walking.

We all need to watch out for everyone else. Wheelchair users have an especially difficult time because many wheelchair users are "invisible". My DD has ended up with people almost in her lap because they just kept backing up into the lane of traffic as they were trying to frame the perfect picture. That was with me yelling "Stop. Don't back up. There is a wheelchair behind you," about 3 feet from the lady's ear. DD stopped, the woman stopped just inches short of sitting on DD's lap, took the picture and I bet never realized she had almost landed in a wheelchair.

 

[dizzyintx]

I have a little bit different take on this than most of you. I want equal Access, but do not want BETTER access. I see all the bumping into wheelchairs as sorta a good thing. People are so use to us now, that we truely get equal access to all thing both good and bad. I know most able body persons going to Disney truely expect and do get josteled a little. Why should disabled persons expect people, to part the waters just so you can get around?

It wasn't that long ago that society just didn't see people out in public that were in wheelchairs or medically different. So the fact is, we should be glad that we have come so far in so short a time.

I for 1, didn't have any problems running into people, but I have been in a chair for years and know how to avert disasters. I did see people in rentals having some problems. That's why you should practice before coming into contact with crowds.

Does anyone here see a link to civil rights running in this tread? When the disabled are truely equal, it will be a better place. In my humble opinion, that place shouldn't be expected to be above everyone else.

Kim

 

[nhed]

We're luckier than most here as we have some mobility. But if it wasn't for EVCs we would have to give us WDW. So we are truely thankful that we get to use them. We own them and use than for any distances.

I did rent a Disney EVC once, and it was bad. I hope others that really need one don't base their experince on a Disney Rental.
Before I bought my wife's, we would rent from Care Medical. A much better experience.

I did want to share our family plan when going on vacation:
Get over it! We spend a lot of money for a Disney vacation to let anything get to us, or ruin our experience. If something goes wrong, and little things alwasy happen, don't they?, we experience something bad, we forget it least it spoil the rest of our vacation.

[that wasn't a sermon I hope, just our family plan]

 

[SueM in MN]

There are some people out there who are inexperienced wheelchair or ecv drivers. They do need to practice and get comfortable a little before going out where it is busy. People who are not used to driving wheelchairs or ecvs also don't always have a sense of the amount of space they take up. (They are using a wheelchair, but still perceive themselves taking up the space they do when walking).
But, there are plenty opportunities for even the most experienced and careful wheelchair or ecv driver to hit into people. My younger DD is 18, can't walk at all and has used a wheelchair her whole life. She can manouver herself to get thru openings just inches wider than her wheelchair because it's almost part of her. Her body image and idea of personal space includes that wheelchair because she's basically never without it unless she's in bed. She has been cut off, stopped in front of and set up to almost hit people more times than I can count. Some of them were people who just didn't see her at all because they were so intent of finding their way in an umfamiliar place.
A few were rude people who knowingly cut into her turning space just to get ahead in line a few feet. Those people didn't do it because she was in a wheelchair, they did it because they saw a space they could get into.
We've had some other rude encounters:
* a guy who saw DD waiting to buy popcorn at a stand and did his transaction over hear head;
* a guy who sat his toddler on DD's feet while we were in line (because his toddler was "tired of standing and I didn't think you'd mind");
* a man standing behind DD at Fantasmic who stood his toddler on DD's headrest;
* a woman who told her DD's to "run ahead of that little girl in the wheelchair" so they could get the handicapped stall in the bathroom to change their clothes before Illuminations;
* one time when when DD was out of her wheelchair setting on the curb and a lady plopped her DD into the wheelchair;
Those purposely rude people are the exception rather than the rule and if you haven't encountered them, you are lucky. Most people are not rude, but the rude ones stand out.

I don't think most people with disabilities expect anything other than accessibility. But, it's sort of like the START SEEING MOTORCYCLES bumperstickers that you sometimes see when driving on the highway. Wheelchairs and ecvs are sort of the sidewalk equivilent of motorcycles on the highway. People don't expect to see them and naturally just sort of overlook them.

 

[dizzyintx]

But can't you at least entertain the idea that there are rude people in the world and just because your daughter is in a chair doesn't mean she is treated any different than anyone else. Could you be over sensitive? That's normal for any mother, especially one with a disabled child. I know I am a tiger when anything comes in my daughter way.

I have encourted the rude people, I just belive they would be rude to anyone, not just people in w/c.

 

[SueM in MN]

I agree that those people who are rude to my DD are probably just as rude to everyone else who gets in their way. It just so happens that we were the people that got hit by their rudeness in that situation. The ones I mentioned are probably also the ones who ambulatory people complain about because they stop in the middle or rows, take flash pictures during shows when told not to, stand in front of little kids just before a parade begins, sneak up in line, etc., etc.
As I said earlier:

People don't change just because they are at WDW. Some are naturally nice; some are rude; some patient; some impatient; some reckless; some careful.
The same people who on the highway:
tailgate, don't stay in their lane, don't pay attention to traffic, cut in too quickly, speed, stop suddenly, turn without notice or expect traffic on the highway to merge with them when they are in the merge lane will probably do those same things at WDW.
Except, instead of driving cars, some of them will be driving wheelchairs, scooters or strollers and some of them will be walking.

 

[HockeyDadof2]

Let's not forget that one doesn't have to be ambulatory to be an rude jerk. I will NEVER forget the time I told my 6 year old son to hold the door because I saw a man in a wheelchair coming and the man's response was not a thank you to my son but a gruff "I can get my own D*** door". If I had been the one holding the door, which I generally do, I would likely have tried to slam it on the jerk.

 

[Mazzy]

I used an ECV for the first time at WDW in September and you just experience the rudeness/clumsiness/bump/push when in a crowd of people in a different way when you are sat down.

When I was walking in a crowd in the past, I always seemed to get my toes trodden on, or my heel kicked, wheras when I used an ECV I found that the only pain I experienced was in my shoulders and hands from gripping the ECV so tightly with concentration!

I do believe that you will meet rude folk everywhere, but you will also meet kind folk, and whether you have a disability or not, the important thing is to try to remember the good experiences and forget the bad so it doesn't ruin your trip. I know it's not easy, but WDW is too expensive to waste time thinking about folk who just aren't worth thinking about.