Obama's Speech

[WildernessBride]

Deep breaths people

Sen. Obama is not a saint nor the anti-Christ. He bungled this a little bit, IMO, but I don't think it's a big deal.

Either way, there's plenty of room for honest disagreement.

Art, your screen name and pic are hilarious!!! I love Seinfeld!!!!

 

[lilyv]

Art, your screen name and pic are hilarious!!! I love Seinfeld!!!!

It makes me smile everytime I see it, too.

 

[transparant]

I'm not the poster you're addressing but I don't understand what you're saying. Could you elaborate please?

Sorry - I'm multi-tasking like crazy right now and actually have to go (trying to arrange for soldiers flights to go home for Easter and the darn airline site keeps timing out!!! ) - What I was trying to say is - I thought it was congress who was voting to defund the troops.

 

[DawnCt1]

Dawn, I didn't realize your husband was in the military. Now I understand your knowledge on the subject.

I live near a base and whenever I'm on my way to work I see the men and women at the gas station or out to eat for lunch. I try to make a point to say thank you and I haven't had one grimace yet. As a matter of fact, one woman almost cried she was so appreciative. Everyone likes to be thanked for their hard work. In my eyes, our military has one of the most (if not most) important jobs in the world. I'm not going to stop praying or stop thanking.

He still is and will be deployed again no doubt. Its part of what you sign up for. At 28 years in he could have gotten out 8 years ago and still had his retirement. We believe in the mission.

 

[mickman1962]

Need based, perhaps? Some well-financed schools provide scholarships based on financial need.

Good point. Need based is right. Based on the fact that the last few generations chose to not better themselves thus are financially not well off. This is somehow our fault? How many years/generations do we need to go through before personally responsibility is held accountable?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Good point. Need based is right. Based on the fact that the last few generations chose to not better themselves thus are financially not well off. This is somehow our fault? How many years/generations do we need to go through before personally responsibility is held accountable?

ask the folks at Bear Stearns when they have to be personally responsible for their decisions..

 

[mickman1962]

ask the folks at Bear Stearns when they have to be personally responsible for their decisions..

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
What does this have to do with anything in this thread????????????????????

 

[Fitswimmer]

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
What does this have to do with anything in this thread????????????????????

It has everything to do with personal responsiblity-these guys made HORRIBLE financial decisions that put the bank in jeopardy and your tax dollars and mine are being used to bail them out.

If individuals are held to that personal responsibility standard, why aren't they?

 

[DisneyMomx7]

Comparing apples to oranges. Is this the best you can do? Sorry, not buying it, and neither will the majority when it comes time to vote in November.

Well since I don't pretend to be "see all, know all" we'll just have to wait until November to find out if you are truly clairvoyant!

I believe the majority are better than the narrow thinkers.

I'm definitely not a Hillary lover but I will hold my nose and vote for her if she is the party nominee in November. I simply cannot, and will not, vote for a man who thinks "Bomb, bomb Iran" is a joke.

I really dread the thought of a "Bush III" presidency and believe that the Democrats will eventually get behind theDemocratic nominee whoever it is.
Just like all the conservatives who were going to vote for Hillary before they voted for John McCain seemed to have dropped that line and are going with the Republican nominee.

 

[WildernessBride]

The whole thread was about race, how can anyone play the race card on a conversation about a RACE Speech.

 

[eclectics]

It has everything to do with personal responsiblity-these guys made HORRIBLE financial decisions that put the bank in jeopardy and your tax dollars and mine are being used to bail them out. If individuals are held to that personal responsibility standard, why aren't they?

Well said! It's the same theory as welfare, only it's going to the very rich.

 

[tedhowe]

People keep talking about Obama spending 20 years in the pews and how that is a reason to hold him accountable.

I'd like to go beyond that surface level for a moment.

I'm interested in a timeline of when these inflammatory sermons/speeches were actually given. I'm not trying to excuse or explain away Rev. Wright's statements, but I am trying to put it in a perspective that people can understand as to why Obama might not have "walked out the door" when he heard of (or heard) the statements of Rev. Wright.

Bear with me... please keep an open mind.

I've tried searching for a timeline of when these hate filled speeches of Wright's occurred. I haven't found anything comprehensive yet, but the earliest reference I can find so far is the sermon right after 9/11.

Most of the other statements that are offensive seem to be from even more recent sermons.


Obama met Wright in 1988. He and Michelle were married by Wright in 1992. Their first daughter was born - and presumably baptised by Wright in 1999. Their second daughter was born - and presumably baptised by Wright in 2001 - quite possibly before 9/11 and the sermon by Wright the following sunday.

So the important events that the critics like to call out - being married by him, baptizing the daughters - quite possibly all happened before the truly radical statements from Pator Wright started appearing. By the time the 9/11 sermon occurred, Obama had known Wright for 13 years.


My point is this: if Obama was as close to Wright as it appears, isn't it likely that Wright is more than just his pastor? When a close friend says things that are hateful or vicious, do you immediately abandon that friend?

If so, then I would not value your friendship.

If there are references to extreme, hateful speech from Pastor Wright prior to 2001, please help me find them. It will affect my opinion of Senator Obama.

If not, then please consider that the relationship (for many) between a pastor and congregant is not as simple as your local grocer. It might be easy to abandon your grocery store because the manager or owner is a racist and you only see them once in a while when you are getting groceries.

But if the pastor of your church is a close personal friend, then it's not easy to hit the road when radical, hateful things come out of his mouth.

Many critics talk about timelines - Obama was concerned enough that he knew about Wright's statements and took him off the program of the campaign kickoff event, Obama was or wasn't there for a given sermon, etc.

I want to know about the timeline from 1988 on, not the last 18 months.

If you want to talk about character, then tell me what positive character trait is indicated by walking out "after one sermon of hate" on a man you have known, learned from, been counseled by and become friends with for 13 years, or even 5 years, or even 2 years. To me, that is being a fair-weather friend, and being politically motivated.

The true test of character is to be open to the positive aspects of someone who is flawed (as we ALL are) and to try to focus on the good points.

Ted

 

[LuvDuke]

Well since I don't pretend to be "see all, know all" we'll just have to wait until November to find out if you are truly clairvoyant!

I believe the majority are better than the narrow thinkers.

I'm definitely not a Hillary lover but I will hold my nose and vote for her if she is the party nominee in November. I simply cannot, and will not, vote for a man who thinks "Bomb, bomb Iran" is a joke.

I really dread the thought of a "Bush III" presidency and believe that the Democrats will eventually get behind and Democratic nominess whoever it is.
Just like all the conservatives who were going to vote for Hillary before they voted for John McCain seemed to have dropped that line and are going with the Republican nominee.

Yanno, I said I wouldn't for Hillary. I'm going to retract that.

I'd vote for Hillary if she's the nominee just to see Planet Bush pass a gold brick when someone plays "Hail To The Chief" and Hillary walks by.

 

[mickman1962]

It has everything to do with personal responsiblity-these guys made HORRIBLE financial decisions that put the bank in jeopardy and your tax dollars and mine are being used to bail them out.

If individuals are held to that personal responsibility standard, why aren't they?

Because, just like basically free college for minorities, these banks gave free mortgages to people that had no reasonable expectation to pay. I blame the people who bought homes that they knew they had no reasonable chance of paying for. Now I can't turn on the news without some sob story about someone losing their house because they bought something they had no right to think they could afford. We should not be bailing these people out, they should be held to their obligations. Had I known I could have bought a house that I couldn't afford and the government was going to bail me out, I would have bought a much bigger house. Please keep responding as you are good at reinforcing my point.

 

[LohKee]

Lack of income/affirmative action. Is it my fault that these kid's parents chose to not educate themselves and get decent paying jobs? I don't blame the kids, I blame the parents (as Bill Cosby does). How many years of cheap college education is needed before someone says enough is enough? Will my grandkids be in the same position as my kids who are in the same position as I was? I would say 80% of the minority students in my college got a virtual free ride. The worst part was they felt it was owed to them, as were passing grades. Stop blaming everyone but yourselves people.

I'm sorry but you sound like the angry white men of the south. With your post I think you believe you know everything about black people when you don't know jack! You lump all blacks together with your post, but have no clue as to what every black household financial status is,yet you continue to stereotype left and right.

So telling of ones self!

 

[WildernessBride]

People keep talking about Obama spending 20 years in the pews and how that is a reason to hold him accountable.

I'd like to go beyond that surface level for a moment.

I'm interested in a timeline of when these inflammatory sermons/speeches were actually given. I'm not trying to excuse or explain away Rev. Wright's statements, but I am trying to put it in a perspective that people can understand as to why Obama might not have "walked out the door" when he heard of (or heard) the statements of Rev. Wright.

Bear with me... please keep an open mind.

I've tried searching for a timeline of when these hate filled speeches of Wright's occurred. I haven't found anything comprehensive yet, but the earliest reference I can find so far is the sermon right after 9/11.

Most of the other statements that are offensive seem to be from even more recent sermons.


Obama met Wright in 1988. He and Michelle were married by Wright in 1992. Their first daughter was born - and presumably baptised by Wright in 1999. Their second daughter was born - and presumably baptised by Wright in 2001 - quite possibly before 9/11 and the sermon by Wright the following sunday.

So the important events that the critics like to call out - being married by him, baptizing the daughters - quite possibly all happened before the truly radical statements from Pator Wright started appearing. By the time the 9/11 sermon occurred, Obama had known Wright for 13 years.


My point is this: if Obama was as close to Wright as it appears, isn't it likely that Wright is more than just his pastor? When a close friend says things that are hateful or vicious, do you immediately abandon that friend?

If so, then I would not value your friendship.

If there are references to extreme, hateful speech from Pastor Wright prior to 2001, please help me find them. It will affect my opinion of Senator Obama.

If not, then please consider that the relationship (for many) between a pastor and congregant is not as simple as your local grocer. It might be easy to abandon your grocery store because the manager or owner is a racist and you only see them once in a while when you are getting groceries.

But if the pastor of your church is a close personal friend, then it's not easy to hit the road when radical, hateful things come out of his mouth.

Many critics talk about timelines - Obama was concerned enough that he knew about Wright's statements and took him off the program of the campaign kickoff event, Obama was or wasn't there for a given sermon, etc.

I want to know about the timeline from 1988 on, not the last 18 months.

If you want to talk about character, then tell me what positive character trait is indicated by walking out "after one sermon of hate" on a man you have known, learned from, been counseled by and become friends with for 13 years, or even 5 years, or even 2 years. To me, that is being a fair-weather friend, and being politically motivated.

The true test of character is to be open to the positive aspects of someone who is flawed (as we ALL are) and to try to focus on the good points.

Ted

Ted,
I agree with that, wouldn't have everone just jumped all over Obama if he had merely abandoned Wright flatly? Of course he would have been called out as making a politically expedient move, but to me the way Obama handled it showed class and character. Obama did took the high road in my opinion by now completely kicking him to the curb.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Yanno, I said I wouldn't for Hillary. I'm going to retract that.

I'd vote for Hillary if she's the nominee just to see Planet Bush pass a gold brick when someone plays "Hail To The Chief" and Hillary walks by.

 

[WildernessBride]

I'm sorry but you sound like the angry white men of the south. With your post I think you believe you know everything about black people when you don't know jack! You lump all blacks together with your post, but have no clue as to what every black household financial status is,yet you continue to stereotype left and right.

So telling of ones self!

That sounds very intolerant....but I guess if Bill Cosby agrees with you then, you must be right.

The original quote did not show up...this was in response to another poster's comments

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Because, just like basically free college for minorities, these banks gave free mortgages to people that had no reasonable expectation to pay. I blame the people who bought homes that they knew they had no reasonable chance of paying for. Now I can't turn on the news without some sob story about someone losing their house because they bought something they had no right to think they could afford. We should not be bailing these people out, they should be held to their obligations. Had I known I could have bought a house that I couldn't afford and the government was going to bail me out, I would have bought a much bigger house. Please keep responding as you are good at reinforcing my point.

But the BANKS are getting the bail-out! Not individuals. BIG CORPORATIONS!

Where's the responsibility there? I'm betting the bailouts over this mess will total hell of a lot more than the need based scholarships provided by the federal government for any one: white, black, brown, yellow, red, blue or polka-dotted. Wanna wager?

 

[mickman1962]

I'm sorry but you sound like the angry white men of the south. With your post I think you believe you know everything about black people when you don't know jack! You lump all blacks together with your post, but have no clue as to what every black household financial status is,yet you continue to stereotype left and right.

So telling of ones self!

Actually I've never been south on NYC. NYC tells me all I need to know about racism and affirmative action. I am just tired of 40 years of blacks blaming whitey for all their problems. How many years do they need before they start looking in the mirror? 40 isn't enough, 60, 80, 100 stop making excuses and start taking action.