ObamaCare Info

[eliza61]

Guess you haven't lived in Canada! My brother's girlfriend lived there all her life until a few years ago and told many stories how her father had to wait months for critical care and how all the wealthy traveled to the US for top notch care.

which proves my point, if you are wealthy you can afford to go wherever in the world you want and get top notch care.

First let me say, I'm a numbers gal. I'm a scientist and data and reports are so much of my day, I tend to investigate.

I have lived in Portugal, my children have lived in portugal and the quality of care is as good as in the US AND the service is quicker and more available and did not bankrupt me. My dh died of luekemia, his care was ok and it left a boatload of bills behind. Yes, we tried to get him back to Portugal.

You cannot call a medical system top notch if it only services 10% of the population. That's like saying our education system is top notch. yeah it is if you can afford private school. Ask the folks in public school in Philly about the quality of their public schools.

ranked 37th out of 42 in infant mortality IN 2013 is by no stretch of the imagination "top notch".

You know I've always wondered about all these "Canadians" jumping the border for "quality" health care.
the Gallup poll and the Pew foundation both ran polls (now I don't know their polling system, so I can fully believe there maybe some flaws) of Canadians and a whole bunch seem pretty satisfied especially with the cost.
According to Pew 25% of Americans are satisfied with the availability of affordable health care as opposed to 57% of Canadians. So some one across the border is happy.

The Availability of Affordable Healthcare

One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied). This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).

Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%).

On a less relative basis, the fact that 72% of Americans say they are dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and 50% are dissatisfied with the quality of medical care are cause for concern. Regardless of how these numbers measure up to those in Canada and Great Britain, they indicate that the U.S. healthcare system has considerable room for improvement.

*Results are based on telephone interviews with 1,000 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted Jan. 13-16, 2003. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±3%.

**Canadian results are based on telephone interviews with a randomly selected national sample of approximately 1,000 Canadian adults, aged 18 and older, conducted Feb. 3-9, 2003. For results based on this sample, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum error attributable to sampling and other random effects is ±3%.

Now I am absolutely certain there are some folks who are really unhappy with their medicine in Canada and they probably have a lot of issues with sustainability but sorry in no way is the US the best in much of any thing anymore. and the longer we keep sticking our heads in the sand that there isn't a problem (healthcare, education, technology, energy) the more the world passes us by.

 

[dhardawa]

Oh, and I hear there is a many page application...if there are no pre-exisitng condition exclusions, why a long application?

Just a guess and maybe one of multiple reasons. There is a multi-billion dollar a year push from the government to provide high quality medical care. This means women are getting cervical cancer screens, diabetics are getting their eye exams, etc. To do this, it is necessary to know about pre-existing conditions even if they're not used to rate/exclude members.

 

[leahjade]

You cannot call a medical system top notch if it only services 10% of the population

You're saying only 10% of the population in the US has healthcare??? Pulling numbers out of our a** aren't we now? Almost everyone (I know there are exceptions) with a full time job has access to health insurance and those who are self employed can buy a basic policy for $400 or $500 a month. And those with poverty incomes have access to low or not cost health clinics in almost any city in the US.

ranked 37th out of 42 in infant mortality IN 2013 is by no stretch of the imagination "top notch"

In fact, the infant mortality rate on the island of Jamaica, almost all of whose population is poor and black, is substantially lower than in Washington D.C., whose blacks enjoy a far higher income than in Jamaica, and two-thirds of whom were beneficiaries of the WIC program.

The cause of premature births, in fact, is not nutritional but behavioral, that is the behavior of the pregnant mother. In particular tobacco smoking, ingestion of cocaine and crack, previous abortions, and infections of the genital tract and of the membranes surrounding the fetus, which often are the consequence of sexual promiscuity. And there we have it.

 

[leahjade]

Ask the folks in public school in Philly about the quality of their public schools

. Do you think throwing more money at the problem will help that? Philadelphia schools spent $13,272 a year per child in the 2009-2010 school year. My child goes to a public university and we spend less than that on tuition plus room and board! The problems there are almost always family issues not money issues. When you have kids who deal with family drug issues, violence issues, no fathers in the household that's what causes education issues. We spend more money than ever on education so throwing more money isn't going to solve the problem.

 

[eliza61]

You're saying only 10% of the population in the US has healthcare??? Pulling numbers out of our a** aren't we now? Almost everyone (I know there are exceptions) with a full time job has access to health insurance and those who are self employed can buy a basic policy for $400 or $500 a month. And those with poverty incomes have access to low or not cost health clinics in almost any city in the US.


In fact, the infant mortality rate on the island of Jamaica, almost all of whose population is poor and black, is substantially lower than in Washington D.C., whose blacks enjoy a far higher income than in Jamaica, and two-thirds of whom were beneficiaries of the WIC program.

The cause of premature births, in fact, is not nutritional but behavioral, that is the behavior of the pregnant mother. In particular tobacco smoking, ingestion of cocaine and crack, previous abortions, and infections of the genital tract and of the membranes surrounding the fetus, which often are the consequence of sexual promiscuity. And there we have it.

No not at all. I was really address your statement about people who jump to other countries to get better health care.

Very few Americans can do that. I don't know many Canadians but the ones I know cannot afford to just go to another country be that the US or UK either. So the 10% is the general rule is sort of the general % of the us population considered rich.


So NO I am not pulling numbers out of my ___ as you so charmingly referred to it.

And actually the infant mortality rates are not my numbers at all. Go take your argument to the World health Organization, New england journal of medicine and harvard school of medicine.

Sorry I trust them, a heck of a lot more than your friends dad from Canada

 

[Colleen27]

Also I just wanted to mention. These health plans that are suppose to be so great in insuring millions of Americans will probably be unusable. If they have a family deductible of $3000 for example. That means that family has to pay 3k out of pocket before the insurance begins to pay. Most ppl can't afford that. So really they are going to be forced to buy insurance they can't afford and can't afford to use. It is healthcare coverage in name only. The only time that insurance will be a benefit is if they have surgery or a catastrophic illness or injury. Even then having to pay 30% of the final bill could bankrupt a family. Or ruin their credit when they can't pay it.

That insurance will also cover many routine needs, though, because of the new coverage mandates. Preventative care, contraception, and other basic needs are covered at 100% without being subject to deductibles or copays, in order to encourage wellness care. So even if the deductible is never met - which it won't be for many healthy people - there is still a benefit in having it. And smaller (relatively speaking) medical bills from deductibles and co-pays can generally be paid off over time. It is the million-dollar cancer battle and the 50K knee surgeries that are leading to bankruptcy, and high deductible plans protect against those.

Guess you haven't lived in Canada! My brother's girlfriend lived there all her life until a few years ago and told many stories how her father had to wait months for critical care and how all the wealthy traveled to the US for top notch care.

I actually live a stone's throw from Canada and my father's family came to the US via Canada. My grandfather and great-grandmother retained their Canadian citizenship until they died, despite living in the US for most of their lives, and in the end my great-grandmother went back there where she could afford the care she needed rather than going broke here.

Yes, the wealthy do come here for some care to avoid waiting in their home country. It seems to be especially common with orthopedic care. But it is hardly the epidemic the American media would have you believe. We know a LOT of Canadians who come here to fill their gas tanks, shop, and dine out because everything is cheaper on this side of the river. But regular Joe, middle class Canadians aren't flocking to our doctors and dentists, nor are they lamenting excessive waits for the care they need. And in exchange for those wait times that the wealthy pay big bucks to avoid, everyone has access to basic care.

We have a friend who is in construction, same as my husband, but he lives in Ontario and we're in Michigan. He's self-employed, same as my husband. A few years back he hurt his shoulder, rendering him unable to work. He checked into having the procedure done here because there was a few months' wait to have it done under his Canadian health care... But it would have cost him a year's income, so he waited it out. For an American in the same boat - blue collar, can't afford 10-15K/year for health insurance never mind 40K for surgery - that would be the end of his career. Because that's not a procedure that you can go to the ER and have done with no ability to pay. And where do people end up when that happens? On the disability and welfare rolls, sometimes for life.

 

[eliza61]

. Do you think throwing more money at the problem will help that? Philadelphia schools spent $13,272 a year per child in the 2009-2010 school year. My child goes to a public university and we spend less than that on tuition plus room and board! The problems there are almost always family issues not money issues. When you have kids who deal with family drug issues, violence issues, no fathers in the household that's what causes education issues. We spend more money than ever on education so throwing more money isn't going to solve the problem.

what are you talking about, I never mentioned simply throwing money at the problem. I never said one single solitary thing about the cause or the solution to the problem. I never said a blessed thing about money.

But saying that we still have the Best education in the world while clearly we don't is idiotic. It's no different that being a drug addict and swearing you don't have a problem, then expecting them to get well.

We have a problem in this country and claiming we are the BEST when every single reliable indicator, that every other developed nation uses as a measuring stick CLEARLY AND LOUDLY says that it's simply not true is absurd.


Anyone see that movie the "titanic" and the scene where the Builder tells the group , no matter what we do the titanic will flounder. The second character Mr. Ishmy I think gets all indignant and says "The titanic can't sink". and the guy turns around and says "She's made of iron sir, I assure you it can sink". That's our health care and education systems. "we keep saying "it's the best and it keeps sinking". LOL


And I totally agree with you on dumping more money on the problems. The US already spends a high percentage of its GDP on healthcare. I think we are some thing around 4 o 5 in the world and we've got a lousy system to show for it.

(Personally though, considering Pennsylvania spends 35,000 bucks a year per prisoner, give a take a dollar, still seems a cheaper deal to better educate our kids than lock 'em up. that's just me though)

 

[luvavacation]

I have only read a few pages of posts, but would like to chime in.

Under Obamacare, I will not be denied insurance nor will I be dropped from insurance for my pre-existing condition. I am very grateful for this.

My daughters, one in graduate school, the other just starting college, are on our insurance, and were not dropped when they graduated high school or college. For this I am very grateful.

There will always be people more wealthy than others that are called upon to care for those less fortunate. Heck, for those of us that call ourselves "Christians", even we are called upon to give up our riches and care for others (and I certainly don't live this, because I really like my stuff and don't want to give it up!)

My family situation is such that we will not receive any help to pay insurance premiums if we found ourselves in a situation where my DH's employer no longer provided insurance. Yes, we would be paying all premium, but so be it. By grace of God we are not at an income level to need the government to provide our insurance, and I am so grateful for this!

However, not too many years ago we were at that "low income" point, and it was scary to have no insurance with 2 little children! I am so glad that there is now a safety net for ALL families to provide healthcare for their children, not just those that are fortunate enough to have employment with insurance.

Yes, there will always be those in society that abuse the system and make a mockery of something that is supposed to be a help, not a lifestyle. But there will also be those that are indeed helped, and as much as it pains me to know that my tax dollars help those that I feel are "unworthy", at least I know I am also helping some that I deem "worthy". And then I ask for forgiveness for judging, but judge I do.

My insurance premiums have increased greatly every year for the last 9 years. Our coverage has lessened. My DH's pay has not kept up with increase in insurance fees. We have still been fortunate, but at least I know that if things were ever to do badly for us, healthcare is not something we will do without. It is about time Americans had the peace of mind that other people in other countries have with the availablity of healthcare to all.

And may I add, I have lived in other countries, not just the U.S. I have seen Socialism and Communism at work, and have no problems with any of the healthcare I received in those countries, nor have my relatives in those countries. I don't get the whole "America has the best health care system". Really? None of my foreign friends or relatives have lost a home to cancer bills, nor been denied treatment because they didn't have the right insurance, or lack of insurance. We may have great health care here, but it isn't for everyone.

Perhaps my taxes will go up, I don't know. They seem to always go up, no matter who is in charge. But at least I know that my children, no matter where they are in life, will have insurance, and if my DH's and my life takes a turn for the worse, we will have insurance. Some may not like this, and I know my well-to-do friends don't, but I have been on the poor side and the no-longer-poor side, and I know how easily life can turn for the worst. Because of this, I am in support of these health insurance changes.

 

[Colleen27]

You're saying only 10% of the population in the US has healthcare??? Pulling numbers out of our a** aren't we now? Almost everyone (I know there are exceptions) with a full time job has access to health insurance and those who are self employed can buy a basic policy for $400 or $500 a month. And those with poverty incomes have access to low or not cost health clinics in almost any city in the US.

No, not "almost everyone with a full time job" has access to health insurance. That's true of higher-paying jobs - 92% of jobs in the top 25% of the wage scale offer insurance, but only 53% of jobs in the bottom 25% do... and most of the job growth in the recovery has been in that bottom quarter. You also ignore the large number of temporary jobs created since the recession, which offer no benefits at all. And then there are those who can't find full time work; someone cobbling together multiple part-time or independent contractor positions can make a living, but he'll have no access to benefits at all.

And that basic policy for $6K/year? $500/mo is a huge expense for most working Americans (again, the median salary in this country is 26K and median household income is 50K), and if you aren't part of a group that'll get you an individual plan with a deductible in the same ballpark as the premium. Double that price for people who need to insure their family.

 

[leahjade]

ranked 37th out of 42 in infant mortality IN 2013 is by no stretch of the imagination "top notch"

Nicholas Eberstadt, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, also attributes the gap largely to conduct. Comparing white Americans to Norwegians in his 1995 book, The Tyranny of Numbers, Eberstadt concluded that "white America's higher rates of infant mortality are explained not by poverty (as conventionally construed) or by medical care but rather by the habits, actions, and indeed lifestyles of a critical portion of its parents."

Nor does access to prenatal care, as the health care critique implies. It used to be assumed that if you assured that pregnant low-income women could see a physician, their infants would do much better. Not necessarily.

When New York expanded access to prenatal care under Medicaid, the effort reduced the rate of low birth weight infants by just 1 percent. In Tennessee, after a similar effort, researchers found "no concomitant improvements in use of early prenatal care, birth weight or neonatal mortality."

It's just easier or more politically correct to blame US healthcare than to have its citizens take personal responsibility for their actions (ie: smoking, drug and alcohol use etc)

 

[johde]

I am currently a single part time employee currently making about $25,000 a year and I buy my own health insurance health insurance. I pay about $180 for insurance with a $2,500 deductible then 100% after that. Based on some of the leaked information I can get a policy with a $1,750 deductible for $144. So, on the surface that sounds better. But because of the employer mandate, my main employer has cut my hours for this fall. Comparing this fall to last fall, I'm making $500 less a month at my main job. $500 a month is more than my health insurance premium and car payment. I saw the handwriting on the wall earlier and was fortunate enough to find a second part time job to make up the slack.

The "evil company" that cut my hours is a local community college. Providing healthcare to the part time faculty would cause a massive increase in tuition to students that are already paying high tuition costs. Fall schedules were set before the president delayed the employer mandate for a year and this fall was part of the first look back period for coverage.

I was able to start teaching at another community college in another city. So, on the days I teach at both college I drive 170 miles round trip. I leave for the first school at 8:30 in the morning and get home for the evening at 10:30 at night with a long afternoon break to drive between campuses.

Healthcare needed reformed, but cure the democrats passed is worse than the disease.

 

[scrapquitler]

Just a guess and maybe one of multiple reasons. There is a multi-billion dollar a year push from the government to provide high quality medical care. This means women are getting cervical cancer screens, diabetics are getting their eye exams, etc. To do this, it is necessary to know about pre-existing conditions even if they're not used to rate/exclude members.

My doctor is the one that needs that information, and she already has it, because she has my medical records. The Government or the insurance company doesn't need it if they can't use that information to turn me down.

 

[Colleen27]

Nicholas Eberstadt, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, also attributes the gap largely to conduct. Comparing white Americans to Norwegians in his 1995 book, The Tyranny of Numbers, Eberstadt concluded that "white America's higher rates of infant mortality are explained not by poverty (as conventionally construed) or by medical care but rather by the habits, actions, and indeed lifestyles of a critical portion of its parents."

You can't separate poverty from habits, though. Not when poverty is a strongly correlated with and frequently cited as causative factor in the development of those habits in the first place, and not when resources exist to address some of the most harmful of those habits but to which the poor seldom have access. And I'm not sure a scholar at an ideologically biased think tank is a convincing enough source to disregard the positions of just about every medical organization in the world.

 

[Dizzyworld]

I am currently a single part time employee currently making about $25,000 a year and I buy my own health insurance health insurance. I pay about $180 for insurance with a $2,500 deductible then 100% after that. Based on some of the leaked information I can get a policy with a $1,750 deductible for $144. So, on the surface that sounds better. But because of the employer mandate, my main employer has cut my hours for this fall. Comparing this fall to last fall, I'm making $500 less a month at my main job. $500 a month is more than my health insurance premium and car payment. I saw the handwriting on the wall earlier and was fortunate enough to find a second part time job to make up the slack.

The "evil company" that cut my hours is a local community college. Providing healthcare to the part time faculty would cause a massive increase in tuition to students that are already paying high tuition costs. Fall schedules were set before the president delayed the employer mandate for a year and this fall was part of the first look back period for coverage.

I was able to start teaching at another community college in another city. So, on the days I teach at both college I drive 170 miles round trip. I leave for the first school at 8:30 in the morning and get home for the evening at 10:30 at night with a long afternoon break to drive between campuses.

Healthcare needed reformed, but cure the democrats passed is worse than the disease.

I also teach at a college and lost some of my classes due to Obama Care. Even after the delay, the college decided that they might as well put things in place this year and then they are ready for the following year.

Our overall expenses have gone up, we have two kids in college and do not get any aid, and now I make less money. Yippee...... This is so frustrating.

I am so ticked that Congress has pretty much exempted themselves...again. I'm sure a deal will quietly be made for the unions too.

 

[Robbi]

You can't separate poverty from habits, though. Not when poverty is a strongly correlated with and frequently cited as causative factor in the development of those habits in the first place, and not when resources exist to address some of the most harmful of those habits but to which the poor seldom have access. And I'm not sure a scholar at an ideologically biased think tank is a convincing enough source to disregard the positions of just about every medical organization in the world.

I used to be one of the poor - my income was $200/month. Out of that $75 went to rent and another $50 went to utilities leaving $75 for for food and entertainment. I saved all month to take my son to cheapie night at the movies and to go to Pizza Hut which used to run specials once a month.

I could not afford cable so we received 3 channels. Cellphones did not exist. I knew exercise and diet were important. For dinners I would often fix some type of beans because of their protein content. Sometimes I could afford meat and sometimes I couldn't. There are lots of ways to eat healthy even with little money. For exercise, I would take my son to a local park and run around with him. We climbed the jungle gym, we played tag,etc.

My opinions are not ideologically based. They're reality based. People need to stop having excuses made for them. Those on government aid need to take education classes on both nutrition and exercise as a prerequisite before they get any help. If those who aren't educated, get educated, maybe Medicaid costs would go down.

I was a teen mother who had not graduated high school. My job became finishing my education so that I could provide a better life for my son and for myself. I got my GED and a loan for college which was paid back in 2 years because I didn't want debt. No one made excuses for me. It was hard but I did it and so can anyone else who makes bettering their lives and their children's lives a priority.

 

[rwielatz]

so what are you saying???? for the people that don't have healthcare it's their own fault? they just have to suck it up??? is that your point?

 

[eliza61]

Wow, who knew,
So your saying if I had simply educated myself on nutrition and exercise. I wouldn't have 10K worth of medical bills from my dh's fight with cancer.

So if all the poor learn how to eat lots of protein, our cost of health insurance will drop and all those on Medicaid will get off?

 

[eliza61]

so what are you saying???? for the people that don't have healthcare it's their own fault? they just have to suck it up??? is that your point?

Yep, that's exactly her point.


It's your fault you got sick and if you only were smart and responsible about it your medical bills would magically disappear.

What do I say all the time, the dis is like the Emerald city. It's reality is based solely if you live in the land of Oz.

Have a good night guys. too weird for me.

 

[Robbi]

That was not my point at all. I was responding to a post about the poor.
People on the boards who are going to Disneyworld are not in the same ballpark as those who live in poverty.
I said if they receive any type of gov't aid. They should have to take classes to educate them about living healthy.
They will be covered by O care through expanded Medicaid. Are you suggesting that teaching people to live a healthier lifestyle is wrong?

 

[eliza61]

That was not my point at all. I was responding to a post about the poor.
People on the boards who are going to Disneyworld are not in the same ballpark as those who live in poverty.
I said if they receive any type of gov't aid. They should have to take classes to educate them about living healthy.
They will be covered by O care through expanded Medicaid. Are you suggesting that teaching people to live a healthier lifestyle is wrong?

the problem is,you automatically are assuming that
1) people on medicaid are not having a healthy lifestyle. No every one on medicaid does not spend their days at fast food sitting in front of a tv. plenty of them do the best they can.

2) you're assuming they don't know about proper nutrition. They are poor not stupid. My dh knew a boat load about nutrition and he was amateur cyclist. he still got luekemia. My mother was a very healthy women up until the time she got breast cancer.

many folks on medicaid are working poor with high school educations. many folks living in poverty are poor but still read labels and try to eat as healthy as possible.