Number of People Walking

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keishashadow

Proud Redhead...yes, I have some bananas!
Joined
Dec 30, 2004
I hear you, understand you, but you seem to be looking to blame one group of people for the issue Disney themselves created. This is another reason why I think Disney may be planning to let DVC be and start up a new Timeshare system. They've learned from (some of) their mistakes.
This is the first I’ve read anything as to this possibility. Not quite sure I’m grasping in it’s entirety the concept you have risen here. At the risk of veering OT on this thread, can you expound on your thoughts or is there a thread link of previous discussion you can share?
 

ziravan

Welcome Home
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Apr 4, 2014
This is the first I’ve read anything as to this possibility. Not quite sure I’m grasping in it’s entirety the concept you have risen here. At the risk of veering OT on this thread, can you expound on your thoughts or is there a thread link of previous discussion you can share?
https://www.disboards.com/threads/new-restrictions-announced-on-resales-effective-jan-19.3727800/

The new restrictions seem to be creating a split between the L14 - Legacy 14 resorts that exist now - and new resorts going forward, starting with Riviera.

At a minimum, the contract language for the new resorts will allow them to more freely maneuver than they can now.
 

keishashadow

Proud Redhead...yes, I have some bananas!
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  • Greg36

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 30, 2017
    DVC is still blocking owners of AKV from booking values for the month of DEC.

    As of today, you can book through Dec 16. The last day that was open outside the 11 month window was the 3rd and it had days outside the 11 month window avail in front of it (those rooms aren’t being walked).

    Every morning at midnight Eastern, the calendar in the booking engine rolls to the next day. Every morning at 8am, booking becomes available. So. There’s an 8 hour window at 11 months plus 7 nights where the room should show avail no matter what. Room pops on calendar at midnight but can’t be booked, even by walkers, until 8am.

    Those rooms in value have been showing up empty for two weeks now.

    There is no value inventory avail past Dec 3rd.
    Something very similar happened for AKL value studios back in August, I believe. It was not long after they introduced the online functionality and I remember mentioning to my wife that I hoped this was not going to be the new normal with being able to walk online versus needing to call in. It lasted a couple of weeks, I think. All of a sudden one day everything was available. No idea if Disney was taking the inventory out on purpose or if there was some sort of glitch. I would not be surprised if something similar happened again and all of a sudden there was availability, minus what are likely some significant waitlists at this point...
     

    Madame

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 15, 2014
    I don’t think they prefer us squabbling.

    I think that solution, seriously increasing December point costs, wound prompt a blowback they don’t want.

    The current member unrest over the lockoff chart change, and yet another attempt to topple resales are business decisions. I might think that they’re poor business decisions but that’s what they are.

    Managing some customer unrest to pursue the business model is business 101.

    If they seriously tweaked Dec in favor of say Summer, the unrest would be exponentially higher than what it is now and with no profit model to show for it. They didn’t reallocate Fall Frenzy because there’s no economic reason to bring that firestorm on themselves.
    I think we mean the same thing. Disney would prefer members angry with each other over enacting a justifiable change which would make them angry at Disney. IE correct the fall season.
     

    CarolMN

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
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    .....(snip).........
    Like really, in what universe should AKV value rooms have their point cost lowered?
    That would be the universe where they had to increase the cost of the concierge category and the decrease wasn't large enough to decrease any other category. They felt it was more important to increase the cost** of the concierge villas than it was to worry about increasing competition for the value category. It makes sense to me.

    ** Probably to avoid making the rest of the AKV owners subsidize the rising costs of the lounge staffing & food.
     

    pineapplepalms

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jul 5, 2017
    I'll just share my experience. We're newer owners (a little over a year) and have been able to book several trips without walking and long after the booking window had opened. However, through these boards I was aware of walking and was also aware that booking for early December can be nuts. This is my first time booking for an early December trip on our points, so I casually started checking availability at some of our home resorts a week or so in advance (VGF, CCV, BWV). By casually, I mean late morning west coast time I would log in to see what was available as of the booking window that opened that day. I started to get a little concerned since the rooms I was hoping to book for this trip were already gone each day I checked. I hadn't planned on walking, but I decided to wake up at 5am every morning a few days in advance and try booking the desired room so that I could get used to the timing and booking process, and if I was able to get it, I would keep it and modify it until I got to my desired dates. So even though I didn't plan to, I ended up walking for a couple of days just to make sure that I got the rooms and dates we wanted for this trip. And I wasn't booking all studios - I booked a 1BR standard view at VGF, a GV at BWV, and a standard studio at BWV, all of which have been booking up super fast.

    Do I wish I didn't have to wake up at 5am multiple days in a row in order to get what I wanted? Sure. It doesn't make me mad though. I understand the reality of the situation and I adapted and worked within the structure of the system in order to make the reservations. Like others have said, I think walking is a symptom of a system where certain room types at certain times of year have demand which greatly outstrips supply. All I did was try a few days in a row until I was able to secure the reservations after seeing days rapidly book up before my eyes. I imagine if I had only tried for one day for each reservation, I would not have gotten them and we wouldn't be able to have our planned vacation.
     

    peabody58

    I'm just a drummer in a R&R Band!!
    Joined
    Mar 28, 2010
    Well will you look at that! Walkers have moved on, and I just booked 12/1-12/3 BLT Standard Studio!!! We had really wanted to see the resorts and parks decorated for Christmas, but had pretty much resigned ourselves that it may not happen. We only have a limited # of points for our 'AP Year', so need to be frugal in order to get in 7 trips in 12 months (I know, first world problems). Being able to drive down has afforded us the opportunity to do shorter and shorter trips, with a bigger bang for the time/experience.
     

    Marionnette

    Children see magic because they look for it
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2009
    Well will you look at that! Walkers have moved on, and I just booked 12/1-12/3 BLT Standard Studio!!! We had really wanted to see the resorts and parks decorated for Christmas, but had pretty much resigned ourselves that it may not happen. We only have a limited # of points for our 'AP Year', so need to be frugal in order to get in 7 trips in 12 months (I know, first world problems). Being able to drive down has afforded us the opportunity to do shorter and shorter trips, with a bigger bang for the time/experience.
    Congrats! I have 2 holes in my trip and I've waitlisted each night. But I'm still checking multiple times each day just in case a walker moves on. If it doesn't work out, I may just release the nights I have and book a regular hotel room for the conference we're attending. I'd feel a lot worse if this were an important trip that I had promised to someone.
     

    ziravan

    Welcome Home
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    Apr 4, 2014
    Well will you look at that! Walkers have moved on, and I just booked 12/1-12/3 BLT Standard Studio!!! We had really wanted to see the resorts and parks decorated for Christmas, but had pretty much resigned ourselves that it may not happen. We only have a limited # of points for our 'AP Year', so need to be frugal in order to get in 7 trips in 12 months (I know, first world problems). Being able to drive down has afforded us the opportunity to do shorter and shorter trips, with a bigger bang for the time/experience.
    Yes, but this is one of the reasons I’m not opposed to whatever transient disruption that walking might cause.

    Somebody is going to end up with those rooms at or near the 11 month window, somebody who wants those rooms.

    You may or may not have had success at 8 am 11 months out; you did have success in the wake of the walkers.

    So walking helped you out, too.

    It’s how I booked October in a value. It was my back up plan for December concierge. Being informed about walking aids in grabbing the right reservation in more than one way because walking creates more than one way in which the odds of booking a room changes.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    That would be the universe where they had to increase the cost of the concierge category and the decrease wasn't large enough to decrease any other category. They felt it was more important to increase the cost** of the concierge villas than it was to worry about increasing competition for the value category. It makes sense to me.

    ** Probably to avoid making the rest of the AKV owners subsidize the rising costs of the lounge staffing & food.
    Logically they shouldn't do that though. To take points from one very popular category to increase another very popular category fits no where within balancing demand. Someone has gotten on an impossible thought with that one.
     

    CarolMN

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Aug 18, 1999
    Logically they shouldn't do that though. To take points from one very popular category to increase another very popular category fits no where within balancing demand. Someone has gotten on an impossible thought with that one.
    Except that if the cost of the food and staff at the lounge goes up a lot, that would mean the dues for all AKV owners all go up. (DVC pays for a portion of those costs). Maybe those who stay concierge should bear a larger share of that cost increase, not the entire universe of AKV owners.

    Agree that it is hard to understand why value was reduced, but I think it was more important to them to increase the cost of concierge to cover the additional costs than it was to make value category even more sought after. Total increase wasn't enough to reduce anything else. Maybe this is a case where 2021 will bring even more changes in this area.
     

    Bing Showei

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2017
    So walking helped you out, too.
    Dude. Ziravan. I agree on the underlying issues of supply and demand, but claiming“walking helped” peabody out is a bit rich.

    In an ideal system, which I agree can not be easily created, everyone would be able compete for the same room under the same conditions. What walkers create is an uncertainty around when the unwanted rooms that they’re holding onto will be released. If I want to catch it in the walkers wake, I have to stalk for the room to free up.

    If I manage get a room in their wake, it’s in spite of the walkers, not because of them. I’ll save my thanks for when DVCMC comes up with a workable solution.
     

    ziravan

    Welcome Home
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    Dude. Ziravan. I agree on the underlying issues of supply and demand, but claiming“walking helped” peabody out is a bit rich.

    In an ideal system, which I agree can not be easily created, everyone would be able compete for the same room under the same conditions. What walkers create is an uncertainty around when the unwanted rooms that they’re holding onto will be released. If I want to catch it in the walkers wake, I have to stalk for the room to free up.

    If I manage get a room in their wake, it’s in spite of the walkers, not because of them. I’ll save my thanks for when DVCMC comes up with a workable solution.
    My point is that looking for rooms in the wake of walking IS a strategy but probably one in which knowledge of walking is necessary to effectively utilize.

    In a game of musical chairs, any strategy that leaves you with a seat is an effective strategy.

    And that’s what this whole discussion is about; given that walking exist, what’s the best way to get a room.

    Surely even if you find walking to be unethical, at least picking off days in the wake should be acceptable.
     

    Bing Showei

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2017
    My point is that looking for rooms in the wake of walking IS a strategy but probably one in which knowledge of walking is necessary to effectively utilize.

    In a game of musical chairs, any strategy that leaves you with a seat is an effective strategy.
    Effective strategy? You’re joking, right? What sort of knowledge can you bring to the table to divine when a renter will be dropping their room? Next day? Two days? Six days? And then at what time? There’s no application of concise developed knowledge, just dumb luck.

    Or a lot of click. Click. Click. Refresh. Click. Refresh.

    That’s a clever workaround. Maybe I should teach a masters course on that methodology.
     

    ziravan

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    Effective strategy? You’re joking, right? What sort of knowledge can you bring to the table to divine when a renter will be dropping their room? Next day? Two days? Six days? And then at what time? There’s no application of concise developed knowledge, just dumb luck.

    Or a lot of click. Click. Click. Refresh. Click. Refresh.

    That’s a clever workaround. Maybe I should teach a course on that methodology.
    I’ll give you another example, pretty much the same parameters: at exactly the 7 month window when people make moves, the rooms they open up in their wake create opportunities if you’re looking for them.

    Working Disney can be done, not just DVC.

    I’ve booked BCV rooms on points at 2 month out. Not in the old days, in 2015. I pieced together 2 nights at OKW, 2 at BCV, and 2 at AKV; that was a great trip precisely because it was a last minute adventure. Now I didn’t find it on my first time stalking; but something good did show up.

    I’ve booked Be Our Guest at least 5 times in the last 4 years and never at 6 months out.

    The system can be worked and that is indeed an effective strategy, or at least, it has been for me.

    Maybe I just have a different viewpoint on the possibilities the current booking system affords if you work it. Whether the previous poster got a room because of — or in spite of — walking is semantics; there was a ripple in room availability that worked in their favor. I’m all about taking advantage of the ripples in the system; I call those opportunities.
     
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    ziravan

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    Apr 4, 2014
    If I wanted some of those value nights being blocked out at the moment, I’d darn sure be waitlisting them. If that turns out to be a glitch in the system and they get released, I’d want to be working that angle.

    I’d also be stalking them on a frequent basis.

    That’s another potential ripple coming up.
     

    Bing Showei

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2017
    I’ll give you another example, pretty much the same parameters, at exactly the 7 month window when people make moves, the rooms they open up in their wake create opportunities if you’re looking for them.

    Working Disney can be done, not just DVC.

    I’ve booked BCV rooms on points at 2 month out. Not in the old days, in 2015. I pieced together 2 nights at OKW, 2 at BCV, and 2 at AKV; that was a great trip precisely because it was a last minute adventure. Now I didn’t find it on my first time stalking; but something good did show up.

    I’ve booked Be Our Guest at least 5 times in the last 4 years and never at 6 months out.

    The system can be worked and that is indeed and effective strategy, or at least, it has been for me.

    Maybe I just have a different viewpoint on the possibilities the current booking system affords if you work it.
    I have no ethical qualms with walking. I don’t think it’s immoral, unethical, or against the intention of the rules. It’s a reality of the system. I know and accept that.

    But in its defense, you seem to adopt this air of exceptionalism, as if through your hard work, mental acuity and dedication that walking is an earned right and as such, deserves to be celebrated.

    Anyone who googles “walking dvc” and knows how to click a mouse now can walk. And therein lies the problem. Walking is a problem, not because it’s some immoral pestilence plaguing the booking system, but because it is becoming so ubiquitous that it will now be done unnecessarily by a lot of people.

    While I agree wholeheartedly that it is a symptom of a bigger problem, there’s no reason why both should not be addressed concurrently. And it’s certainly no reason to be heralded as some crowning achievement of a willingness to work harder and smarter than others. That gets old fast.
     

    ziravan

    Welcome Home
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    Apr 4, 2014
    I have no ethical qualms with walking. I don’t think it’s immoral, unethical, or against the intention of the rules. It’s a reality of the system. I know and accept that.

    But in its defense, you seem to adopt this air of exceptionalism, as if through your hard work, mental acuity and dedication that walking is an earned right and as such, deserves to be celebrated.

    Anyone who googles “walking dvc” and knows how to click a mouse now can walk. And therein lies the problem. Walking is a problem, not because it’s some immoral pestilence plaguing the booking system, but because it is becoming so ubiquitous that it will now be done unnecessarily by a lot of people.

    While I agree wholeheartedly that it is a symptom of a bigger problem, there’s no reason why both should not be addressed concurrently. And it’s certainly no reason to be heralded as some crowning achievement of a willingness to work harder and smarter than others. That gets old fast.
    Walking is a strategy. There are other strategies out there.

    Some work great; some are hit and miss.

    It’s not about genius or skill; it’s a game of knowledge and persistence.

    If you’re persistent, you can make booking work even with today’s constraints on the system.

    Maybe that’s old for you but there are people on this thread and forum trying to figure out strategies to make their points work better for them. Learn the system and work it.

    The only place where I think learning and working the system won’t be consistently successful is Fall studios at VGF and CCV. If I were buying CCV I’d buy a fixed week if I wanted to stay in studios there routinely. That’s the only consistently effective booking strategy I foresee there.
     
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    Marionnette

    Children see magic because they look for it
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2009
    Congrats! I have 2 holes in my trip and I've waitlisted each night. But I'm still checking multiple times each day just in case a walker moves on. If it doesn't work out, I may just release the nights I have and book a regular hotel room for the conference we're attending. I'd feel a lot worse if this were an important trip that I had promised to someone.
    Stalking worked and I grabbed the final night that I needed late last night! I have to say that I have never seen the first couple weeks n December book as quickly as it did this year. I wonder whether it has more to do with SW:GE or just how convenient walking has been made with the new booking tool.

    Now, what am I going to do with all of my spare time? I suppose that I could work on cleaning out a closet or two.

    NAH! I'll probably focus tweaking plans for my April trip now.
     
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