NTSB report on Monorail Crash

[charlie,nj]

Interesting about CM’s carrying “kill pack’s” that can shut down power. I never noticed, will have to look next time I am at WDW .

“And at least one individual on the Transportation and Ticket Center platform, near where the trains collided, should have had a portable "kill pack" that could have shut down the electrically powered monorail track had the person realized a train was coming from the wrong direction.”

If more does come out about Austin stopping the monorail and trying to backup to save his 6 passengers ..Disney should name a monorail after him.

PS- that video of him taken by the family was great, seems like a great guy.



.

 

[bigmerle1966]

Thank you Geoff.

I just watched this video. This might be one of the saddest things I've seen:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...e54704b-0bb6-4551-99a8-a52a47764cb5&src=front

 

[RadioNate]

Just another update. According to WESH news in Orlando the driver of monorail Pink has been suspended. They are saying that the suspensions are part of the investigation and not 'necessarily' disciplinary and that some are on paid leave.

 

[manning]

"On duty" could just mean "on call". S/he may just have to be available but not necessarily on property.

Then why the suspension???

 

[Pembo]

Then why the suspension???

Probably standard procedure........

 

[manning]

It was 2 am and they were at a restaurant in Lake Buena Vista. Little far to go for a break and a little late for a dinner. But again, as a former CM, I know that this isn't terribly unusual. This manager obviously trusted the CMs to do the job correctly (which is common) and trusted the backup systems.

When you are paid to do a job, you are expected to do it. The manager was missing from his post and at a critical time to boot. I know of several companies where you would be fired for not being at your post and doing what you should be doing. There should not have been any breaks at the time of the accident, especially when you are short handed !!!

 

[DawnCt1]

Before you say that, you need to be sure that the job required that he be at his post at the time. Another CM, perhaps a subordinate, might have been on station while the manager was on a authorized meal break.

Here is an a couple of paragraph's from yesterday's story; It sounds like that there were a number of safeguards that could have worked but didn't, including the pilot of the second train who ignored a series of clues that he hadn't switched tracks.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...y-monorail-ntsb-update-070809,0,3212363.story

One potential contributing factor: The "monorail central" coordinator, who oversees the entire system and signals trains when to begin moving, was not at the central console at the time of the accident, according to a Disney employee familiar with the events.

The console has a display grid that the coordinator can use to ensure that a track switch has been realigned before instructing a train to begin transferring to the other line. It also has a red, mushroom-shaped emergency-shutdown switch that can be used to stop all trains.

The Disney employee, would spoke to the Orlando Sentinel only on condition of anonymity, said the monorail-central coordinator who had been working that night went home sick and had handed responsibility for the system to an on-duty manager. But that manager was off site and communicating by radio when the accident occurred, the person said.

A spokeswoman for Disney World said Wednesday that the resort will "continue to work closely with the NTSB and other agencies investigating the incident." The other agencies include the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration, the Orange County Sheriff's Office and the Transportation Communications Union, which represents monorail employees.

Not having someone at the central console would not be enough to cause the accident by itself, according to former monorail pilots. For instance, workers in the monorails' maintenance shop, who are supposed to activate track switches upon request from the coordinator, have their own display grids as well as monitors linked to video cameras that overlook the track switches -- and emergency-shutdown switches.

Former pilots said there also would likely have been multiple clues for the unidentified pilot of the second train that his vehicle had not shifted onto the spur line and was instead moving back down the Epcot line. And at least one individual on the Transportation and Ticket Center platform, near where the trains collided, should have had a portable "kill pack" that could have shut down the electrically powered monorail track had the person realized a train was coming from the wrong direction.

 

[DawnCt1]

When you are paid to do a job, you are expected to do it. The manager was missing from his post and at a critical time to boot. I know of several companies where you would be fired for not being at your post and doing what you should be doing. There should not have been any breaks at the time of the accident, especially when you are short handed !!!

He may have been at the restaurant when the monorail coordinator went home sick and could have been in the middle or the end of his break at the time.

 

[SandrA9810]

You people are so quick to jump the gun, wanting to point a finger at blame. Maybe it's time you all went and read ALL 39 pages of the topic on the attractions board.

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2221099&page=39

much more informational than the topic that was created on this board.

They probably "suspended" the CM's to prevent them from 1-talking, 2-allow themselves to heal, 3-keep the media off property. I mean they went "under cover" to get video of the monorail running on Monday, do you really think disney wants them on property??

In all areas, there's always more than one manager on duty, especially that late at night. There had to be more than one stationed there. And if you listen to the 911 call the girl on the line says "my manager told me to call. I don't know what happened we just all heard a big boom".
First off the switch went through a coordinator and not necessarily a manager. It's common, that's why they have coordinators (aka Leads). THey're the ones that take care of the cast members, making sure breaks get out on time, giving out early releases, and making sure things flow properly. All managers are called Guest Service Managers, they take care of the guests making sure thier stay is as good as it gets. And take care of all the paper work backstage. I wouldn't be surprised the manager was in the office at the TTC taking care of nightly paperwork to close down for the night.

And all managers are pretty much "on call". They all carry blackberries and are in constant contact with other managers whether they're on vacation or just off on a regular day. I would never want to be a manager cause I would never want to have the responsibility of carrying that thing around 24/7. It's very possible an manager that got off a bit earlier was at an eatery when the accident happened. And I've heard a half dozen places this "manager" was at, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. You should as well.

 

[Piecey]

Thank you Geoff.

I just watched this video. This might be one of the saddest things I've seen:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...e54704b-0bb6-4551-99a8-a52a47764cb5&src=front

Oh, that is definitely one of the saddest things I've seen.

He clearly loved/enjoyed his job. Seems he was very knowledgeable, too, about the monorails.

 

[kimmar067]

Thank you Geoff.

I just watched this video. This might be one of the saddest things I've seen:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...e54704b-0bb6-4551-99a8-a52a47764cb5&src=front

...that IS sad...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just another update. According to WESH news in Orlando the driver of monorail Pink has been suspended. They are saying that the suspensions are part of the investigation and not 'necessarily' disciplinary and that some are on paid leave.

Honestly--I would have expected the drive of monorail pink to be on self initiated leave--it would seem emotionally possible to have all your wits about you to work following that tragedy.


I'm surprised it took this long for suspensions (as a standard form of protocol).

While not the same as working for law enforcement, anytime they shoot a suspect they are automatically suspended as a matter of practice. The suspension in and of itself doesn't mean they did anything wrong.

While I will patiently await the results of the investigation--it seems VERY odd to me that there was no cast member that had a visual on the impending accident (other than austin) who couldn't at the very least attempt to prevent the tragedy.

It does seem implausible to me--given what has been said about the multiple safety checks.

(Also--my saturn mini-van has a reverse sensor so that even if I can't see something--it let's me know when I am getting too close to an object (though it is up to me to stop). I now MAPO was overridden, but it seems like something simple that could work in either direction.)

 

[raysnkaysmom]

When you are paid to do a job, you are expected to do it. The manager was missing from his post and at a critical time to boot. I know of several companies where you would be fired for not being at your post and doing what you should be doing. There should not have been any breaks at the time of the accident, especially when you are short handed !!!

There are too many details we don't know to jump to conclusions...
The law requires you to take breaks, that much I know.

Regardless of whether his lack of presence had any bearing on the crash, I'm sure he feels guilty enough without others not recognizing a catastrophic mistake and placing blame.... Which, I'm not sure he's to blame anyway.

Just a very sad story all around.

 

[JR6ooo4]

(Also--my saturn mini-van has a reverse sensor so that even if I can't see something--it let's me know when I am getting too close to an object (though it is up to me to stop). I now MAPO was overridden, but it seems like something simple that could work in either direction.)

That is a very good point. Why is any vehicle that must move backwards relying on mirrors. In this age of technology.

Mikeeee

 

[mtomlin66]

That is a very good point. Why is any vehicle that must move backwards relying on mirrors. In this age of technology.

Mikeeee

In hindsight, maybe this might make sense, but let's not overgeneralize. I own 2 vehicles, neither have rear sensors. I wasn't aware that they were standard on ALL vehicles today

It is interesting to hear the NTSB reports, but I think we all have to be careful to not jump to any conclusions or make judgements on this preliminary information. There is still a lot we don't know.

 

[FireDancer]

"On duty" could just mean "on call". S/he may just have to be available but not necessarily on property.

That is true, I am in I.T. and there are many times that one of us just has to be accessible, I have been out of the country and still been the person on call and on duty.

Now, if that was the case here it does beg the question why was he suspended but we have to remember that often times people are suspended for an investigation.

Accidents happen and I hope that was the case here. We'll see though I'm sure. Like Apollo 11 and the Challenger disaster sometimes a chain of events happen and the end result is a problem. There is also the complacency that comes with years of operation without issues which could have lead to some safety measures being underused. The thing I find negligent is the lack of crash resistance in the cockpits. I have read in multiple articles that the cockpit is basically fiberglass and plastic. How these vehicles were able to operate without passing crash tests of at least the 15mph they normally travel in reverse is a bit disturbing. I think that and the cameras is the first thing that needs addressed. I would also like them to redesign MAPO so that a full override isn't required to switch tracks. Hopefully the part of the system that keeps the trains a minimum distance can stay on when the reverse override is activated.

It is easy to play Monday morning QB but the silver lining in these situations is that future accidents will be avoided or their damage minimized by what we learn from this one.

 

[JR6ooo4]

In hindsight, maybe this might make sense, but let's not overgeneralize. I own 2 vehicles, neither have rear sensors. I wasn't aware that they were standard on ALL vehicles today

It is interesting to hear the NTSB reports, but I think we all have to be careful to not jump to any conclusions or make judgements on this preliminary information. There is still a lot we don't know.

My cars do not either, but:
the back end of my cars is only 10 feet from my mirrors
I have five mirrors on my cars (the rear view, two sides and two little ones on each side for blind spots)
I never back up (with safety systems overridden) at 15MPH! which is very fast to be driving when you can not see where you are going.

I am not one to jump to conclusions, but the cost of rear view cameras for every single train would be a very small percentage of the system cost as whole.

Mikeeee

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

In hindsight, maybe this might make sense, but let's not overgeneralize. I own 2 vehicles, neither have rear sensors. I wasn't aware that they were standard on ALL vehicles today

It is interesting to hear the NTSB reports, but I think we all have to be careful to not jump to any conclusions or make judgements on this preliminary information. There is still a lot we don't know.

It isn't a standard option of course.

I simply mentioned it as an epiphany and this could just be a future consideration. It was not meant as accusatory.


On another note--Fox Orlando had a statement from the pilot of Monorail pink. It was teased at the end of So You Think You Can dance but I was watching the tv'd version and not the live--so I missed the statement.

Did anyone local catch it?

I checked their website and they do not have it posted, yet.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Caught the 11:00 and it was a statement of a friend of Alan who is 62. (Dennis Pickering)

Statement was condelences but he was unable to comment due to investigation. Dennis said he was following instructions.

The reporter also said he is so upset by this that he is under a doctor's care.


Poor guy.

ETA: THey also showed in a series of pics one photo of something I hadn't considered. It was under the track and there is lots of debris. It hadn't dawned on me that debris would have fallen. It is amazing noone was beneath the track to be hit by it.

 

[Feralpeg]

I heard that they were put on paid administrative leave. That is a little different than being suspended. I heard this tonight on the local Fox news station.