November 2022 Direct sales.

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Good point. In terms of actual recorded sales, Riv was likely cheaper than VGF for almost the whole month. Probably not too many recorded sales on the newer pricing. And yes, December will be a much better indication.

I'm still just shocked that Riv sales have been double VGF sales.

Just a quick glance at sales recorded in December so far shows it’s more like 45-55 month to date (Riviera still leads)

 

[Sandisw]

Yup. "Buy where you want to stay" is a mantra of the message boards and the old guard, but random family watching a sales pitch isn't buying where they want to stay. They're buying into the portfolio and not caring what their home resort is so much (as long as it isn't Aulani).

Forget about it’s comparison to RIV.

Its the fact that it has had four months of sales 44k and under. It is VGF, the flagship resort and it’s not selling well at all.

I don’t know, other than right after the pandemic, to have ever seen a resort in active sales do this poorly.

I just think it’s a surprising number and does indicate that people don’t think it’s worth buying there right now…

ETA. If it is always only about least expensive, then we would have seen this happen before.

 

[havoc315]

Forget about it’s comparison to RIV.

Its the fact that it has had four months of sales 44k and under. It is VGF, the flagship resort and it’s not selling well at all.

I don’t know, other than right after the pandemic, to have ever seen a resort in active sales do this poorly.

I just think it’s a surprising number and does indicate that people don’t think it’s worth buying there right now…

ETA. If it is always only about least expensive, then we would have seen this happen before.

We will see what happens with the reduced VGF price. But unless it flips and VGF starts to double the sales of RIV, it’s really surprising.

Certainly part of the reason RIV outsold VGF is the price but I don’t think that can really explain the 2:1 difference. It may simply be that “resort studios” weren’t a winner.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

It may simply be that “resort studios” weren’t a winner.

They nearly tripped over themselves rushing to get microwaves installed after saying there wouldn’t be any.

 

[hhisc16]

Forget about it’s comparison to RIV.

Its the fact that it has had four months of sales 44k and under. It is VGF, the flagship resort and it’s not selling well at all.

I don’t know, other than right after the pandemic, to have ever seen a resort in active sales do this poorly.

I just think it’s a surprising number and does indicate that people don’t think it’s worth buying there right now…

ETA. If it is always only about least expensive, then we would have seen this happen before.

Since you own at RIV and VGF, which one do you prefer? Just curious.

 

[havoc315]

They nearly tripped over themselves rushing to get microwaves installed after saying there wouldn’t be any.

Personally, the microwave isn’t a big deal to me in a studio. But I prefer 1 and 2 BR units.
And the Resort Studios are popular with some people, compared to regular studios.

But looking at the overall market, it’s conceivable that a building of just nice regular hotel rooms isn’t as popular as a mix of regular studios and larger units.

 

[Matty B13]

Personally, the microwave isn’t a big deal to me in a studio. But I prefer 1 and 2 BR units.
And the Resort Studios are popular with some people, compared to regular studios.

But looking at the overall market, it’s conceivable that a building of just nice regular hotel rooms isn’t as popular as a mix of regular studios and larger units.

Yeah, I think they miscalculated the need for studios around MK, with Poly being all studios right now which can be picked up at the 7 month mark there really wasn't a need for so many more studios at VGF. Maybe if they had done a 50/50 split of studios to 1 & 2 Bedrooms it might look more attractive. I know as a owner of the VGF 1.0 I wasn't happy when I heard the addition was going to be all studios.

 

[kes601]

Certainly part of the reason RIV outsold VGF is the price but I don’t think that can really explain the 2:1 difference. It may simply be that “resort studios” weren’t a winner.

I personally liked staying in a resort studio (noise issues aside). But, we are somewhat unique -- 2 of us and no kids so it is sort of a perfect setup for us. That said, we won't buy there. They need to make the DVC rooms different from the regular hotel rooms (and the microwaves don't count). All the buildings are getting refurbed the same. It makes the VGF2 rooms lose any uniqueness they may have had.

 

[Sandisw]

Since you own at RIV and VGF, which one do you prefer? Just curious.

RIV is my favorite resort. But, we split stay every trip between the two. Usually one or two nights at VGF and the others at RIV.

I did buy 300 points at VGF in March so now have 300 for both, as well as 300 for SSR.

I just don’t think anyone expected, including me, to see VGF have sales this low. It is a wonderful resort and has lower fees.

It sold very well when it went on sale the first time, so these numbers are pretty surprising.

 

[hhisc16]

RIV is my favorite resort. But, we split stay every trip between the two. Usually one or two nights at VGF and the others at RIV.

I did buy 300 points at VGF in March so now have 300 for both, as well as 300 for SSR.

I just don’t think anyone expected, including me, to see VGF have sales this low. It is a wonderful resort and has lower fees.

It sold very well when it went on sale the first time, so these numbers are pretty surprising.

Understand.
We viewed the rooms at VGF and RIV in July 22.
Both resorts are nice, but we did not purchase either. (we are staying in a resort studio in jan to try it)

 

[havoc315]

I personally liked staying in a resort studio (noise issues aside). But, we are somewhat unique -- 2 of us and no kids so it is sort of a perfect setup for us.

When I'm traveling with my wife without the kids, I really would prefer the regular studio --- No need for a full time second bed. Would rather have the more space.

But yes, there are certainly people who love the resort studios.

That said, we won't buy there. They need to make the DVC rooms different from the regular hotel rooms (and the microwaves don't count). All the buildings are getting refurbed the same. It makes the VGF2 rooms lose any uniqueness they may have had.

 

[havoc315]

Yeah, I think they miscalculated the need for studios around MK, with Poly being all studios right now which can be picked up at the 7 month mark there really wasn't a need for so many more studios at VGF. Maybe if they had done a 50/50 split of studios to 1 & 2 Bedrooms it might look more attractive. I know as a owner of the VGF 1.0 I wasn't happy when I heard the addition was going to be all studios.

Maybe, I don't know if the issue is the lack of 1&2 BRs, or if the issue is resort studio vs deluxe studio, or if the issue is both. (or neither).

 

[Nabas]

Forget about it’s comparison to RIV.

Its the fact that it has had four months of sales 44k and under. It is VGF, the flagship resort and it’s not selling well at all.

I don’t know, other than right after the pandemic, to have ever seen a resort in active sales do this poorly.

I just think it’s a surprising number and does indicate that people don’t think it’s worth buying there right now…

ETA. If it is always only about least expensive, then we would have seen this happen before.

Information is more readily available to the average DVC buyer than it was years ago.

Maybe all the talk about soundproofing and noise problems at BPK is having some effect?

After all, the discussion before BPK opened was “I hope they fix the soundproofing problem.” Now that it’s been open a few months, there’s plenty of “they didn’t fix the soundproofing problem.”

Historically, cleanliness followed by noise are two of the major factors people use to book a hotel room. Perhaps DVC is the same?

 

[TinkB278]

Woof. Explains no ROFR.

Are they not rofring many right now?

 

[TinkB278]

I was considering adding on some vgf2 points because I do love the look of the room and the two real beds. Once I heard about the noise issues though it was a definite no. If they would have made the rooms a lower point cost or offered the previous UY points (I know they couldn’t since the resort wasn’t open the prior year) I might’ve been persuaded to buy vgf2 though rather than adding on more points at riv.

However, I felt like I should add I’ve had terrible noise issues in a RIV studio before. We were right under topolinos and I could hear chairs being moved around all night. To make matters worse, I could hear the guy in the room next to us snoring all night. That was a very bad experience.

 

[pianomanzano]

Information is more readily available to the average DVC buyer than it was years ago.

Maybe all the talk about soundproofing and noise problems at BPK is having some effect?

After all, the discussion before BPK opened was “I hope they fix the soundproofing problem.” Now that it’s been open a few months, there’s plenty of “they didn’t fix the soundproofing problem.”

Historically, cleanliness followed by noise are two of the major factors people use to book a hotel room. Perhaps DVC is the same?

Despite all the readily available information, the average new buyer doesn't care about specifics such as BPK soundproofing or cleanliness. They care about how they can use DVC for cruises, stays at DL, DLP or Tokyo, or even using points at Pop or AoA. You see these kinds of posts all the time on FB and other places when they talk about being new members or are contemplating joining.

 

[DeeBee3]

Wait till we see the months coming up in 2023...an enormous economic crunch is coming and will reflect in future sale numbers.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Yeah, I think they miscalculated the need for studios around MK, with Poly being all studios right now which can be picked up at the 7 month mark there really wasn't a need for so many more studios at VGF. Maybe if they had done a 50/50 split of studios to 1 & 2 Bedrooms it might look more attractive. I know as an owner of the VGF 1.0 I wasn't happy when I heard the addition was going to be all studios.

I don’t think the building allowed a lot in terms of conversion flexibility. It is interesting though that they actively took BPK’s 1 and 2 bedroom suites and made them into studios.

Are they not rofring many right now?

No, they’ve narrowed very tightly. @pkrieger2287 does a write up every month that covers when Disney exercise ROFR in a DVCResaleMarket contract ; there were only 6 in November. So across all sellers maybe there were 20-30 (there are some, um, sketchier places that mostly deal in non-DVC timeshares; those places are more likely to have fire sale prices, and Disney is way, way more likely to exercise ROFR on those, so DVCRM’s total share of ROFR is usually less than their share of DVC sales)

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-right-of-first-refusal-report-rofr-november-22/

 

[Sandisw]

Information is more readily available to the average DVC buyer than it was years ago.

Maybe all the talk about soundproofing and noise problems at BPK is having some effect?

After all, the discussion before BPK opened was “I hope they fix the soundproofing problem.” Now that it’s been open a few months, there’s plenty of “they didn’t fix the soundproofing problem.”

Historically, cleanliness followed by noise are two of the major factors people use to book a hotel room. Perhaps DVC is the same?

It could be some of that for sure. I think there are a lot of reasons that could be contributing to what has happened,

All we know is that for four of the nine months VGF has been back in active sales, it is selling at a level that we have not ever seen before.

To be clear, it’s not like RIV is selling like hot cakes either, but for the sales of VGF the past four months to be this bad, something about it is making buyers shy away,

And, if you can’t sell something, it’s a clue it’s overpriced…which is why DVD needed to increase the incentives to be better than RIV.

From the post above about December numbers, it looks like RIV is still in the lead but the difference may be closing which could indicate the lower price is what is doing that.

 

[Nabas]

It could be some of that for sure. I think there are a lot of reasons that could be contributing to what has happened,

All we know is that for four of the nine months VGF has been back in active sales, it is selling at a level that we have not ever seen before.

To be clear, it’s not like RIV is selling like hot cakes either, but for the sales of VGF the past four months to be this bad, something about it is making buyers shy away,

And, if you can’t sell something, it’s a clue it’s overpriced…which is why DVD needed to increase the incentives to be better than RIV.

From the post above about December numbers, it looks like RIV is still in the lead but the difference may be closing which could indicate the lower price is what is doing that.

RIV has had somewhat consistent sales numbers since the end of COVID lockdowns, hovering around 75,000 points per month.

It's VGF that has been all over the map.