Not that we haven't suspected this....(A thread open to interpretation)

[aengus]

its yavn not Yavn!

on his blog it was capitalized. lame-o

 

[TikiIslander]

No, its not a surprise that yavn isn't directly in charge of daily operations of vmk, but I hope nobody thinks that his replacement has taken control of the yavn avatar as well. This dude was "yavn" before a virtual magic kingdom could even be possible, and certainly before he became involved in the project. The mouse can do a lot of things, but they can't take your identity.

Yavn created VMK. I doubt he just washed his hands of it when he accepted the job at Disney Mobile. I'm sure he's still working with the current staff as a consultant or something.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

The mouse can do a lot of things, but they can't take your identity.

They are not taking his identity, if in fact they did put someone in his place. They CAN however, take over the "yavn" name and charachter and give it to someone else if they so choose. Just like they can ban us or make us change our names. Disney OWNS everything on the VMK site including all usernames and avatars, they can simply do whatever they wish with it. "Yavn" may very well be Seth's long time screenname, but that makes a whit of difference unless he owns the copyright (which he does not) and even now, if George Lucas chose to, he could make VMK remove all references to "Yavn" simply because it is his copyright, not Seth's. (and because the name is used in promotion and marketing.. if Yavn was just another player, then Lucas could not do anything.)

 

[aengus]

They could kill his account if they chose no doubt, not so sure they could use it, keep in mind its tied to a much bigger thing than just vmk. its a go.com account.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

They could kill his account if they chose no doubt, not so sure they could use it, keep in mind its tied to a much bigger thing than just vmk. its a go.com account.

Not nessecarily, you assume that Yavn had to "sign up" for VMK like the rest of us, when I would bet it is an administration account setup in a different way.

 

[aengus]

yeah definitely possible. I definitely have the opinion nobody will ever play "yavn" but him tho. Unless so many of us day1 peeps go away they feel they can get away with it

 

[steamboatpete]

even now, if George Lucas chose to, he could make VMK remove all references to "Yavn" simply because it is his copyright, not Seth's. (and because the name is used in promotion and marketing.. if Yavn was just another player, then Lucas could not do anything.)

You can't copyright a name or a title. Yavn is fair game and Seth can use it all he wants.

 

[Adventuredaz]

You can't copyright a name or a title. Yavn is fair game and Seth can use it all he wants.

Here we go...

 

[NotAZoo]

I think the point here is that although no one can take my name from me...or copyright it for that matter....an avatar used in a game which is owned by Disney is at Disney's beck and call. Actually Lucas technically owns the name Yavn, just like NotAZoo is a play on Nahtazu for the Animal Kingdon. If VMK wanted to they could strip me of my title in a heartbeat.

I think what proves the point is that you never see personal credits for VMK, hence no page which lists all the real names of the developers and producers of VMK. The thought behind it is that it is a Disney product and developed as a whole for Disney so there is no individual credit to be taken.

Therefore with the name, once the Avatar is created it technically becomes Disney's to do what they want with it.

I think to not strip away from all the hard work the people of the team did to develope this great time waster we have all learned to enjoy, I think as a homage to Seth, Yavn will always be something associated with him.

Another thought is that Mr. President has seen many names like, Reagan, Lincoln, Washington etc. come and go under its moniker, so maybe Yavn has become the "Mr. President" of the VMK world and anyone in charge now takes on that persona. And since it was Seth's original title, the honor of keeping that name to signify the man or woman in charge is quite the honer bestowed unto him.

Ok just a ramble and a thought, however I am sure plenty will disagree.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

You can't copyright a name or a title. Yavn is fair game and Seth can use it all he wants.

You must not have read my post.

You can copyright a name likeness and image for profit purposes, since the name "Yavn" in VMK is used for promotional purposed (Yavn's news" etc) he would have to prove that Yavn is in fact his real name or Lucas could send a cease and Desist order.

Read the news sometime: Yoko Ono just sued a person whose REAL NAME is "Lennon" for using it as her band name. Yoko Ono owns the Title "Lennon" and the person whose name is Lennon is up a creek without a paddle.

 

[NotAZoo]

Read the news sometime: Yoko Ono just sued a person whose REAL NAME is "Lennon" for using it as her band name. Yoko Ono owns the Title "Lennon" and the person whose name is Lennon is up a creek without a paddle.

Damn that Yoko.....she ruined the Beatles and now is stealing this persons name. As we tell our friends..."I don't mind who you date...just make sure she isn't a Yoko!"

 

[Vary]

Yavn is a big deal in gaming. He's a serious talent, as his bio shows. He's been with the company for quite some time, and Disney wants to keep him on board. Trying to pass his avatar - which bears his long-term internet name - to someone else would make him mad. Even if they could do it, they won't want to risk alienating him. And, in fact, his less frequent appearances in the game suggest just the opposite - that his involvement with the game has decreased, but that he still retains control of his account. If the account had been handed off to his replacement, there would have been no noticeable interruption in his in-game appearances.

There's also the fact that other hosts, QAs and staff members have come and gone, and been replaced, rather than their accounts changing hands.

You must not have read my post.

You can copyright a name likeness and image for profit purposes, since the name "Yavn" in VMK is used for promotional purposed (Yavn's news" etc) he would have to prove that Yavn is in fact his real name or Lucas could send a cease and Desist order.

Read the news sometime: Yoko Ono just sued a person whose REAL NAME is "Lennon" for using it as her band name. Yoko Ono owns the Title "Lennon" and the person whose name is Lennon is up a creek without a paddle.

No, Yoko Ono thinks she owns the name Lennon. Just because she filed a lawsuit does not mean that lawsuit has any merit.

And I'm pretty sure Lucas's trademark would be for the correct spelling of the planet's name, Yavin, wouldn't it? Didn't he choose a variant spelling (a name 'inspired by' a place from the Star Wars Universe), rather than actually naming himself after that place, specifically because it would be trademarkable?

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Vary,

(working from bottom up lol) He explained that he actually made a typo and got locked into the name, but it does not matter, being close is enough for a cease-and-desist order.

Yoko actually has a good case since when John Lennon was on his own, he went by the name "Lennon". You simply can not use someone else's business title as your own. If your name is Joe and you open a Business called "Joe's" is it ok for someone else to open a business called Joe's simply because their name is Joe? the answer is: Yes... unless you registered, copyrighted or trademarked the name. Yoko Trademarked "Lennon" - she wins, hands down.

And for the top: I never said that they DID pass it, only that they could. He may have even done it himself - placed a caretaker admin in his spot using his name, we really dont know.

 

[Vary]

Vary,

(working from bottom up lol) He explained that he actually made a typo and got locked into the name, but it does not matter, being close is enough for a cease-and-desist order.

I very much doubt that, frankly. Lucas might be able to try, just as Yoko can, but that wouldn't give him a legal right to prevent the use of the name. Even if the spelling change was unintentional, it's not the same name, it just sounds similar. Lucas's trademark on the relatively obscure planet 'Yavin' is not such a central one to his business, and the two uses (a fictional planet and a real developer) not similar enough for Lucas to make a claim of 'soundalike' trademark infringement. Yavn has owned the url Yavn.com since 1999 at least. He has a far, far stronger claim on the name than George Lucas.

Yoko actually has a good case since when John Lennon was on his own, he went by the name "Lennon". You simply can not use someone else's business title as your own. If your name is Joe and you open a Business called "Joe's" is it ok for someone else to open a business called Joe's simply because their name is Joe? the answer is: Yes... unless you registered, copyrighted or trademarked the name. Yoko Trademarked "Lennon" - she wins, hands down.

No, Yoko Ono did not trademark 'Lennon.' If she had, the trademark Lennon Murphy applied for five years ago would have been turned down. She's contesting the trademark. It's far to early to guess how the case will pan out, but even if the two cases were similar (they're not, because of the spelling issue) Ono's case is not strong enough to use it to make the claim that Yavn has no right to his internet handle.

And for the top: I never said that they DID pass it, only that they could. He may have even done it himself - placed a caretaker admin in his spot using his name, we really dont know.

I never said you did - that's why I put that part of the post above the quote from your post - but just because we 'don't really know' doesn't mean that it makes sense to assume someone else is using the name. I explained why I don't think it's likely.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Yoko owns the "Lennon" name and it is trademarked, but just not specifically for musical interests. The new "Lennon" applied for it specifically for music and as with any Trademark, there is an 8 year contest period. Yoko is now contesting it.

 

[steamboatpete]

You must not have read my post.

You can copyright a name likeness and image for profit purposes, since the name "Yavn" in VMK is used for promotional purposed (Yavn's news" etc) he would have to prove that Yavn is in fact his real name or Lucas could send a cease and Desist order.

Read the news sometime: Yoko Ono just sued a person whose REAL NAME is "Lennon" for using it as her band name. Yoko Ono owns the Title "Lennon" and the person whose name is Lennon is up a creek without a paddle.

"Read the news?" I don't have to read the news. I read the cases. I brief the cases. I am, among other things, a copyright and trademark attorney with published opinions to my name. You cannot copyright a name or title. Period. End of discussion. There is no room for other opinions because it is a fact that the law does not permit copyrighting names, titles, slogans or other short phrases. You started out talking about copyright, and then you justified your assertions with trademark standards, which are entirely different. Lucas never trademarked "Yavin" or "Yavn" as far as I can tell. Even if he did, he probably would be powerless to stop the use of the name "Yavn" as a character in a MMORPG.

As for the Lennon "lawsuit" (and when I did read the news today, oh boy, it looks like Yoko does not own any such trademark, and she isn't suing Lennon Murphy: http://www.nme.com/news/yoko-ono/34369), I haven't read up on all of the facts there, but I seriously doubt that Yoko would prevail in a challenge of Lennon Murphy's trademark. I would hardly describe the situation of Lennon Murphy as being up the creek without a paddle. I don't even think she's up the creek, but if she is, she certainly has a paddle.

Even if Yoko was able to prevail in her trademark registration challenge, it won't be on copyright grounds. Perhaps she could claim the exclusive right to the name as it applies to a rock band or artist, but she would have no claim to the name as it applied, for example, to a hotel. There's a reason why Delta Airlines owns the trademark "Delta" for air travel, but Delta Hotels owns it for lodging, and neither can do anything about the other. Neither owns a copyright on the name. Each owns a trademark for the use of the word for certain commercial purposes.

But don't take my word for it. Here's what the U.S. Copyright office says on the subject:

"Can I copyright the name of my band?
No. Names are not protected by copyright law. Some names may be protected under trademark law. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information."

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

If you have access to Lexis or Westlaw, I can give you some string cites to some cases that drive the point home.

(You were right, Daz.)

[Update: I found the challenge petition online. Yoko owns two trademarks of the name "John Lennon", one for tote bags and another for eyewear.]

 

[the_jedi_master]

doesn't disney have limited rights to star wars with star tours, sw weekends, etc.?

 

[steamboatpete]

doesn't disney have limited rights to star wars with star tours, sw weekends, etc.?

Yes, but those have nothing to do with a username that is a variation of an obscure reference in one of the films. If you want to sell Star Wars memorabilia, you can't do it without permission from Lucasfilms (in many cases, for both trademark and copyright reasons). If you want to call your Satellite TV company Skywalker, you can pretty much do what you want.

http://www.skywalker.com/

 

[mtlhddoc2]

Yes, but those have nothing to do with a username that is a variation of an obscure reference in one of the films. If you want to sell Star Wars memorabilia, you can't do it without permission from Lucasfilms (in many cases, for both trademark and copyright reasons). If you want to call your Satellite TV company Skywalker, you can pretty much do what you want.

http://www.skywalker.com/

You may be a state copyright attorney somewhere, but the fact of the matter is not that the name Yavn is a username on a MMPORG, but the fact that the name is used in promotion of said website. It is not obscure, but blatant, with Yavn even admitting that he took the name from Star Wars. If he was just a player, yes, there is no leg to stand on, but since he is the producer, using the name in various newsletters, bulletins and other posts, yes, it is covered.

I no longer have access to WestLaw, the legal department decided that the IS department no longer needed access. But I do have access to a library of law books and have done extensive copyright and trademark rights research. So, I am not a lawyer, and got them a bit mixed up in my post. But the fact of the matter remains that "Yavin" is Trademarked. Go buy some Hasbro Star Wars toys and you will see the little TM up there. Skywalker, however is not. But I for one would love to see you try and use "Tatoonie" or "Dagobah" in a movie book or MMPORG (as a title, not a username) and see what Lucas does when he finds out. He is one of the absolute worst (or best?) when it comes to protecting his trademarks, copyrights and other intellectual property.

If you would liek to discuss this further, please send me a PM, I am sure we could go back and forth on this for months, even years. My father was a property rights lawyer (including intellectual) before he retired and I worked in his office as a Paralegal for 5 years. Since his retirement 15 years ago, he has been teaching property rights law at a University here in Rhode Island.

 

[NotAZoo]

ORDER IN THE COURT....I SAY! ORDER IN THE COURT!!!!

Damn if I new all hell would break loose, I would have asked Aengus to keep Add from putting in his two cents..... Just kidding Daz!

No seriously....all I wanted to say was, "Ummm guys I think Yavn moved on or got promoted or something like that".....but oh well now I will be forever linked to being an instigator.....don't I feel sheepish.

Oh well....who needs law school when you have the DisBoards.