Not sure I'm getting why FP+ is "limiting" peoples experience.

[morethananyonex]

Rileygirl, if you've been offline for a few months then you missed the days in October when legacy FP ran out at DHS and Epcot within 30 minutes of opening. It wasn't long after that they instituted the tiering. And for me the tiering and limit of once per attraction are just as important as the limit of 3. The tiering turns that limit of 3 to a limit of 1 (based on our own prior usage) in those 2 parks. And the "once per attraction" limit has been a sore spot of mine since this rolled out. Once again, that could just be because of the way we like to do the parks.

For us, if I had to rank the biggest issues with FP+, I would say lack of park hopping hits us hard, followed by 3 at MK, tiering and finally the possibility of a lack of same day options.

The last 3 issues can be dealt with by doing RD, but we're kind of stuck for park hopping. Because of the way we tour we have to book our FPs in the morning/very early afternoon, or else we can't fit all 3 in at our 2nd park of the day. I would overlook the other issues if I could book 3 spread over 2 parks. Really, I could overlook the issues if even one of the problems I mentioned was resolved. For us, it's a perfect storm of issues that work together to make the system difficult for us to enjoy.

 

[crostorfer]

Well, if stand by wasn't good enough for you to stand in to ride TSMM, then why is it a solution to the issues that FP+ has created? Obviously standing in a long line sucks, or you would have rode TSMM already.

 

[crostorfer]

I really do think that the families of the teen/tween set are the most unhappy with FP+. So many of the ones loving it are people without children or those with children young enough that they never did thrill rides anyway.

It's like they have decided to just write off the teenage set. But a lot of families with teenagers also have younger kids. It seems risky.

I'm just going to keep nodding in agreement.

 

[crostorfer]

OT, but here is the thing…while I absolutely agree that this isn't the end of the world, if you don't have kids, you don't get how horrible it is to stand it line for a long time with them. I mean you might *think* you know, but you don't until you actually live it. And trust me, you won't want to be taking twins out to the parks anytime in the next couple of years. Especially if they are boys. Fighting all the time in line is no fun for anyone. Having just one is vastly different from having two at once. You will see how much you miss FP- then, I promise!

And in keeping with my smilies theme of the day, because I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree....

 

[Rileygirl]

Mom2rtk

I hear you, but, just saying, that its the limit of 3 that kills everything. Tiering could and would have been beat through rope dropping, picking up extras on the day of (something that probably will happen, and disboard vets will figure out exactly how to manipulate this if if does) emhs while still available, there can be combinations of winning for the vets, especially while legacy existed.

But locking the door on legacy, thats the killer, in my opinion.
I have been off the boards, and its interesting that situation in October, but not suprising, I am SURE that the SAVVY disboarders were prebooking all the best fast passes, and then pulling more out of the system with legacy, a virtualy gravy train of fun. Because DHS has so few attractions that people want to fp, (like epcot) and these attraction ride capacities are not great (probably the worst combination out of all 4 theme parks) its just not suprising.

But, with tiers, and legacy lockdown, this is not going to be a problem until the GP (general public) gets on board. (I think) And when it does, it becomes pressure for people to 1) stay on site and prebook and 2) if available, prepurchase theme park tickets for off site guest so they can prebook.

The brilliance of the Disney bean counters, in my opinion, is that they have taken something away that was once 'free' for everyone, and an 'even playing field' for everyone, and have made it a commodity. A commodity that is right now, not for everyone. And they have severly limited this commodity for everyone. And this commodity will increase in value over time. And it will sell hotel rooms. And it will become incentives and perks. And it will become tiered itself, amongst the resorts. And the general public is not shouting outrage because they dont know yet that they are getting less. And when they gradually do, instead of being mad, they are going to run through the mouses maze to get the better cheese, like prepurchasing tickets or staying onsite. I mean seriously, how brilliant is that?

Again, I hear you, and I KNOW this whole system sucks for not only the way you tour, but your age group with kids. Its not great for us either, but not as horrible, because we dont visit often anymore, love the 'b's, and do our thrill ride junky bit at Universal. So I am not squealing as loud. But I understand completely your position. I think many people on the boards are in your postition too. I also think, over time, the amount of enjoyment my family will have will substantially decrease, to the point we just wont end up going. Its now once every 2 years, and for less then a week, generally speaking. We might go in July, for 3 days, because its a tradition for a kid turning 16. We will spend more days at Uni though, as per her request. Just sayin. And Im not wholey looking forward to it, because its going to be the only family vacation for us this coming year, and would rather do other things.

 

[rt2dz]

Tonight I looked through some of the Italy guidebooks at our local bookstore. It feels odd but I am really thinking of going elsewhere. I don't hate FP+ but I'm just not sure that so much scheduling and the costs for what you get and so on will work for us in the future. I'm just not sure...

We took 2013 off from WDW. While we always went somewhere else besides WDW each year, it was usually semi-local and shorter trips. This year we did a big massive trip up north. We all had a blast (and spent a heck of a lot less!). It led us to the decision to make sure the kids see all 50 states. This summer we will either do the west coast or the east coast. Once the youngest gets a few years older, we will totally be spending a summer in Europe.

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[btk2333]

I don't think it is the refurbishments people are complaining about, but the lack of new attractions. "New" Fantasyland is a small expansion that appeals mostly to the under 7 set and little girls. And, yes, they are opening a new kiddie coaster, but that isn't going to appeal to my teen and tween boys, but they'll go for the littler ones and mom and Dad, and we also had to lose Snow White's dark ride for it. And it won't be a new ride, but another flipping princess attraction--won't appeal to any of my boys. The last ride prior to that was Toy Story midway Mania in May 2008. What did Universal add in that time? A lot!

Yeah Disney certainly has spent their time and money on things that appeal to a certain demographic in the last 5 years. However, hasn't Universal also mainly opened up attractions that appeal to the opposite demographic (forgive me for not knowing I haven't been to Universal since 2005). I love Harry Potter, but it hasn't been enough to take my vacation dollar from Disney. Universal is a great set of parks. I used to love going there (from when I was 14-18); however, it's not a park that I want to go back to multiple times per year and I haven't been for almost 8 years.

There is no reason disney couldn't have opened more; they've closed a lot. Disney isn't even hinting at anything else until 2015-2018, and Universal (biggest competitor) will add a massive amount of attractions in that time period. Better value.

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What has Disney closed since 2008 that they have not replaced? I found 2008 park maps to check it out

MK
Snow White was replaced by a Princess Meet and Greet/Mine Train
Dumbo was closed, moved and doubled
Toontown meet and greets were closed by replaced by Town Square Mickey and Storybook Circus meets
Tiki Room went "retro"

EPCOT (FW desperately needs some love now IMO)
Honey I Shrunk the Audience replaced by Captain Eo
Test Track was reimagined
SSE was reimagined

DHS (Likely getting a Star Wars land that will appeal to a different age group)
Sounds Dangerous gone no big loss IMO
Star Tours was reimagined
Narnia turned into the new Pirates experience

DAK (getting Avatar in the near future- definitely appeals to a different demographic than the princesses)
I'm not sure about what's closed here as we don't do any of the animal things.

I always wish Disney would open more rides but I don't think it's accurate to say Disney has "closed a lot" and not replaced the rides.

 

[AmyB2006]

OT, but here is the thing…while I absolutely agree that this isn't the end of the world, if you don't have kids, you don't get how horrible it is to stand it line for a long time with them. I mean you might *think* you know, but you don't until you actually live it.

OMG, ain't that the truth. When mine were really little, I tried to stand in the TSM line. It said 90 minutes. My DD was 1 1/2. I thought, there's stuff for her to look at, she loves Toy Story... how bad could it be? Right. Within 1/2 an hour she started to whine, which turned into full blown screaming at about an hour. And at the hour mark, we had just made it to the "front" of the main room where the characters are talking. Hadn't even gotten to the 3D glass pickup place yet. I wanted to gouge out my eardrums with a sharp object, and I'm her mother, so I can only imagine what other people were thinking.

I saw an exit door and told my family I was going, and left. Didn't look back. Only to find out now I'm wandering the back hallways of Disney/TSM and am not finding a way out. Only to find a CM tell me I had to go back to the line (my DD was still screaming by the way). I promptly told him no, pushed past him and found a way out. I'm lucky security didn't find me LOL.

We never waited in another line longer than 30 minutes. You never know how little kids will react to things. They're all different. Some are great in lines. Some aren't.

 

[joecatz]

heres my big issue.

I don't mind being limited to 3 FP a day, but the idea of limiting them to ONE PARK is just counter productive, especially when you have to CHOOSE between test track OR soarin at Epcot and then can't get a paper fast pass as well.

you don't NEED fast passes for any rides in Epcot save Soarin and Test track. Same goes for Toy story, tower of terror and rockin roller coaster at HS.

what they've really done with FP+ is not streamline the FP experience. what they've done is basically eliminated it. You have to plan your day religiously. Theres no more:

get up and decide which park to go to, FAST PASS what you want there, and hop over to MK in the afternoon.

in addition, you won't be able to FP in the park really, as a hopper. meaning, lets say you spend the day at epcot, go back to the hotel, and head over to MK at 6ish. in a lot of instances, we'd go over to space mountain, FP it for say 10 pm, and then enjoy the rest of the night, knowing we wouldn't have to give an hour to that particular line.

90% of the frustrations could be avoided by simply ALLOWING people just the three FP+ options but not limiting them to just one park.

we're AP holders. have been for 6 years, and honestly, I don't think we're going to renew this year, BECAUSE OF FP+

 

[mom2rtk]

Mom2rtk

I hear you, but, just saying, that its the limit of 3 that kills everything. Tiering could and would have been beat through rope dropping, picking up extras on the day of (something that probably will happen, and disboard vets will figure out exactly how to manipulate this if if does) emhs while still available, there can be combinations of winning for the vets, especially while legacy existed.

But locking the door on legacy, thats the killer, in my opinion.
I have been off the boards, and its interesting that situation in October, but not suprising, I am SURE that the SAVVY disboarders were prebooking all the best fast passes, and then pulling more out of the system with legacy, a virtualy gravy train of fun. Because DHS has so few attractions that people want to fp, (like epcot) and these attraction ride capacities are not great (probably the worst combination out of all 4 theme parks) its just not suprising.

But, with tiers, and legacy lockdown, this is not going to be a problem until the GP (general public) gets on board. (I think) And when it does, it becomes pressure for people to 1) stay on site and prebook and 2) if available, prepurchase theme park tickets for off site guest so they can prebook.

The brilliance of the Disney bean counters, in my opinion, is that they have taken something away that was once 'free' for everyone, and an 'even playing field' for everyone, and have made it a commodity. A commodity that is right now, not for everyone. And they have severly limited this commodity for everyone. And this commodity will increase in value over time. And it will sell hotel rooms. And it will become incentives and perks. And it will become tiered itself, amongst the resorts. And the general public is not shouting outrage because they dont know yet that they are getting less. And when they gradually do, instead of being mad, they are going to run through the mouses maze to get the better cheese, like prepurchasing tickets or staying onsite. I mean seriously, how brilliant is that?

Again, I hear you, and I KNOW this whole system sucks for not only the way you tour, but your age group with kids. Its not great for us either, but not as horrible, because we dont visit often anymore, love the 'b's, and do our thrill ride junky bit at Universal. So I am not squealing as loud. But I understand completely your position. I think many people on the boards are in your postition too. I also think, over time, the amount of enjoyment my family will have will substantially decrease, to the point we just wont end up going. Its now once every 2 years, and for less then a week, generally speaking. We might go in July, for 3 days, because its a tradition for a kid turning 16. We will spend more days at Uni though, as per her request. Just sayin. And Im not wholey looking forward to it, because its going to be the only family vacation for us this coming year, and would rather do other things.

Well, there is much to dislike about the system the way it appears now.

But we already do rope drop. So I can't "add" that to our plan to regain what we are losing.

And yes, the limit of 3 might still be the worst part of it. I'm back and forth on it. But I could live with (not be happy with, but live with) the limit of 3 in all but the MK if there was no tiering and I could duplicate rides. But we all know that won't happen. It can't. But then there's the MK......... just a mess to think of trying to do that park in a way we will be happy with under the limit of 3.

I do still hold out hope that same-day fastpasses will be available. It doesn't require legacy machines to accomplish this. I really think that when things get settled, you will be able to add more fastpasses after using some or all of what you prescheduled. Of course, the odds having headliner capacity are pretty small. I think you'll just be able to go in through the app or to a kiosk in the park and do those things.

The root of the entire problem is that they let the fastpass genie out of the bottle. Once you remove the barrier of needing to be IN the park AT the machine to get a fastpass, demand skyrockets. And capacity did not. So the limits are just a necessary evil at this point.

 

[Robo]

what they've really done with FP+ is not streamline the FP experience. what they've done is basically eliminated it.

To many guests, that is true.

 

[Huff]

I've been buying APs since 1998 and don't recall them ever being $200. Maybe around $300 but that was 15 years ago, not 3 or 4.

In 2008-2010 DLX AP's were about $269 but local Costco's sold them for $269 with a $50 Disney gift card making the total price $219. We bought them at this price for 3 years in a row and then the price skyrocketed beyond our budget.

 

[AmyB2006]

90% of the frustrations could be avoided by simply ALLOWING people just the three FP+ options but not limiting them to just one park.

OMG, so true. I hope to kingdom come, that when this is all rolled out, that this is what they do. I'm not going to hold my breath, but I can hope.

 

[joecatz]

Think about it. The single biggest factor that really hurts vets is the limitation of 3 fast pass per day. (Imho). Tiers, and prebooking, and all that other crap is just hoops we have to learn how to jump through, in order to maximize the system. We learned how to do it for fast pass originally, look at old post when the fp system was first introduced, there was pandomonium on the boards (sorta).

However, the limit of 3 is a big freakin deal, especially at the magic kingdom. Now, I have been offline for a few months, but I felt pretty confident that legacy would be available for quite a bit longer, just due to the fact that roll out was taking so long, and there were so many IT glitches going on. I thought, they cant take it away until the program is running smooth, AND they started bringing off site guests into the equation (at least a year or two away). And as long as there was legacy, there was no 3 fp limit truly, for those who learned how to maximize the system (read here that I was considering just going old school if double dipping was gone).

But no, that is not the case, Disney has ALREADY slammed the door at AK. Fascinating. Its done. 3 fp max at AK. For everyone. (unless extras are offered day of, or some sort of resort perk or something comes into play.)

I was kinda thinking, Disney cant piss off the off site people like this, its too big of a group. There is going to be huge ramifications if legacy is gone, and off site people only get the leftovers. Chaos! Anger!, Cats and dogs living together! But, Disney is going to do it, and do it soon. How can they do it?

Maybe because the general offsite person will notice very little to no difference. (not talking about a disboarder, but the average public). They still can get fastpasses, just like before. They still get them on the day of, just like before. Are they going to notice that the selection is way down? That they loose out on the good ones? Best time slots? Best attractions?

NOPE

Why not? Because Disney has just burned our little butts, thats why. Because the vets can no longer get 6 a day, and ALL for the headliners, we have put a WHOLE bunch of great FP's into play, with about the same pool of people who typically use fast passes. And when tiers really come into play, we added a whole bunch more of the good ones back in. Brilliant.



~A

I think what limits it the most is the inability to book the FP+ between parks.

and this is really interesting, because it makes me wonder if INADVERTANTLY this might actually hurt their onsite stays.

kind of makes you wonder if they don't have something else PLANNED as an additional perk for onsite guests, here, especially since extra magic hours NOW have less of a perk since theres no more "getting to HS at rope to rush to toy story to FP" or "hurry to epcot to FP test track and run over to soarin"

if they were SMART they'd replace the extra magic hours at the parks with the ability to FP plus two parks, or give more FP+ for onsite guests.

 

[Laketravis]

Yeah Disney certainly has spent their time and money on things that appeal to a certain demographic in the last 5 years. However, hasn't Universal also mainly opened up attractions that appeal to the opposite demographic (forgive me for not knowing I haven't been to Universal since 2005). I love Harry Potter, but it hasn't been enough to take my vacation dollar from Disney. Universal is a great set of parks. I used to love going there (from when I was 14-18); however, it's not a park that I want to go back to multiple times per year and I haven't been for almost 8 years.



What has Disney closed since 2008 that they have not replaced? I found 2008 park maps to check it out

MK
Snow White was replaced by a Princess Meet and Greet/Mine Train
Dumbo was closed, moved and doubled
Toontown meet and greets were closed by replaced by Town Square Mickey and Storybook Circus meets
Tiki Room went "retro"

EPCOT (FW desperately needs some love now IMO)
Honey I Shrunk the Audience replaced by Captain Eo
Test Track was reimagined
SSE was reimagined

DHS (Likely getting a Star Wars land that will appeal to a different age group)
Sounds Dangerous gone no big loss IMO
Star Tours was reimagined
Narnia turned into the new Pirates experience

DAK (getting Avatar in the near future- definitely appeals to a different demographic than the princesses)
I'm not sure about what's closed here as we don't do any of the animal things.

I always wish Disney would open more rides but I don't think it's accurate to say Disney has "closed a lot" and not replaced the rides.

Wow. Until you quantified it all by listing it out like that, I had not realized just how lame their efforts have been over the past few years.

Gotta love those new DVC resorts though, huh?

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't mind being limited to 3 FP a day, but the idea of limiting them to ONE PARK is just counter productive, especially when you have to CHOOSE between test track OR soarin at Epcot and then can't get a paper fast pass as well.

But if they allow people to use FP+ at more than one park, it defeats the purpose of tiering. Tiering is there because they don't have the ride capacity to support this system. If people can hop around to pick off the headliners, they will still have a shortage for headliner spots.

I will say that in all of this mess, I'm really glad that hopping isn't one of our issues. We generally don't buy hoppers and just plan complete days in a given park. But I can totally see how frustrating this would be to someone used to hopping.

Everyone says "do rope drop at one park and schedule FP+ at your later park". Which is all fine. Except that before you could do rope drop, do some FP at that park when it got busy, then ALSO do FP at your later park. You could do rope drop at Epcot, grab a FP on TT, ride TT, run over and do Soarin, then go back and use your TT FP. And it's still early. You could to a few more things, then go over to MK and start pulling FPs for the remainder of the day.

It's clearly a huge takeaway. It's ride rationing. Disney is hoping everyone will adjust their expectations downward. I suppose some will. I doubt we will ever be happy with this.

 

[rt2dz]

"You know nothing John Snow." Forgive me, for I'm not really trying to be rude, but without children, you really have no idea how this is impacting those of us who do, and whose children want to ride the same rides over, and over, and over and are now unable to without a lengthy wait that they've never had to encounter before. I've explained these changes to my 10 year old, who had the response of, "What is Disney DOING Mom?". At 7, she never would have understood why we have to wait 2 hours to get on the Tower of Terror a 2nd time, after using a Fastpass got us on with no wait the first time. And she absolutely wouldn't understand why we couldn't get a fastpass for the RNRR, if we used one for the ToT. You will someday understand this plight young Padowan, but not now. Come back and revisit this topic in three or four years, if the system still stands as it is.

LOL! My thoughts were: come talk to me when those twins are 3 or 4 years old with definite likes and dislikes, that can change day to day, and aren't shy about expressing it. Better yet, talk to me when they are Tweens/teens and you have more kids in the mix, preferably another one that is 3 or 4 years old and is busy expressing their wants and the rest of the world doesn't matter.

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[chris1013]

I'm definitely the minority here, but I was in wdw the week of December 8 and I loved fp+. I will admit that the tier system is stupid and with legacy, I could get fp for all the headliners. However, I booked all our fp before the tier system. I love planning trips, so I enjoyed planning rides ahead of time. Also, by having fp+, we found ourselves running out of things to do because we could maximize our time better and not waste time walking back forth to get FPs. We still arrived at rd and were able to then ride soarin and tsmm twice or get straight in line for characters instead of rushing some place for a FP. Again, I hate the tier system and think it should be eliminated but I found the fp+ convenient. I did not find standby lines to be longer because of it either. I think our longest standby wait was 20 minutes.

 

[mom2rtk]

Wow. Until you quantified it all by listing it out like that, I had not realized just how lame their efforts have been over the past few years.

Gotta love those new DVC resorts though, huh?

What, no disclaimer?

 

[joecatz]

while we complain about this to kingdom come a quick story here.

about two years ago, with my then 3 YO daughter and 5 year old son, we were at HS at Rope. obviously, as most people in the know do, you got there early and went straight to TS mania to FP. as we tended to do, my wife would take my son and get in the SB line, and I took my daughter to FP the ride and would meet her in line, so we could, you know, ride twice.

they would put cast members in a 'Chain line' directing people to the attraction, and tried their best to limit the rush.

long story short, while HOLDING my daughter and walking, people started running, someone tripped me, and to protect my daughter from the fall I obviusly held her and didnt try and break my fall, and gashed my knees and elbows.

No one stopped.

No one tried to help.

Disney was gracious enough to offer us free mickey bars. seriously. ice cream.

my point here is THATS what they're trying to ELIMINATE with FP plus.