Not sure I'm getting why FP+ is "limiting" peoples experience.

[Angel Ariel]

my point is that we dont' spend more time in standby lines

That may have been the case for you...that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

FP+ can make it much BETTER for people to not do RD- however, optimal touring will always require RD- it is very simple for those two arguments to work together

You no longer are required to get there at RD to get a FP for TSM for example; however, if you want to optimize the number of rides you get in one day- you need to get there at RD, just like always

RD wasn't necessary for us except on dhs days. We could get to epcot around
10 and still get fps for soarin and tt both (something no longer possible with tiering.). Dd usually sleeps from 830/9p until between 8-9am. Then add in feeding her breakfast, dressing her, etc and getting to the parks by 9 is pretty much not happening unless we woke her early (not a fantastic idea for an 18 month old)

We could get fps for the mtns at mk for the adults AND the younger experiences like etwb and dumbo (and more) for Dd...we can't now. That does mean more time in sb lines than we have needed to previously for the same # of attractions.

 

[Disneylover99]

i don't think I understand how people are riding fewer rides than before

Is it because you are using your KTTW card for paper FP as well as FP+?

 

[btk2333]

That may have been the case for you...that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

I acknowledge that- what frustrates me is when people act like it is the end of the world because Disney has chosen to change the rules of the game- they've changed how FPs worked in the past (when they stopped allowing you to return after your return times for example) and they will change them again- it will simply require minor alterations to figure out how to play the new game that Disney has given us

RD wasn't necessary for us except on dhs days. We could get to epcot around
10 and still get fps for soarin and tt both (something no longer possible with tiering.). Dd usually sleeps from 830/9p until between 8-9am. Then add in feeding her breakfast, dressing her, etc and getting to the parks by 9 is pretty much not happening unless we woke her early (not a fantastic idea for an 18 month old)

We could get fps for the mtns at mk for the adults AND the younger experiences like etwb and dumbo (and more) for Dd...we can't now. That does mean more time in sb lines than we have needed to previously for the same # of attractions.

We don't have little ones yet (wife is having twins in May though so we will soon) but I understand not wanting to upset her schedule. When we take our twins when they are young we know that we will not be able to tour as optimally as we have in the past either.

I also understand the frustration about needing to "burn" your FP+ on attractions for the baby and vice versa- Disney may address this or they may not

MK still does not have tiering, so it is possible to get FP+ for three headliners (ETWB never offered FP- so any use of FP+ at ETWB is a benefit that you didn't have before- getting there at 10:00 would have pretty much guaranteed at least an hour wait).

Dumbo is pretty much a walk on at all but the busiest times now since they've added the dueling Dumbo (gasp! Disney actually increased capacity for a ride!)

At MK I have used FP+ on ETWB, Pan, and Pooh one day (Fantasyland day, along with FPP at BOG--> another benefit that did not exist before), then the next MK day used FP+ on Space, Thunder and Buzz (we very rarely do Splash- hate walking around wet)

I acknowledge that it depends on your touring. We very rarely get more than three legacy FP in a day (the only park that we would would be MK), and when we did it was because we got there at RD. We park hop pretty much every day even before FP+ and FP+ works well for RD and PH.

I get annoyed on these boards when people post that it is the end of the world for everybody and refuse to acknowledge that, as with any change, some people are going to benefit and some are not going to benefit. People are so fatalistic about a system that is not fully in place and nobody knows how it will actually operate. I've been several times with MBs and FP+ and have changed almost nothing about how we tour (we plan in advance heavily anyway) and noticed no negative effects on our touring (we actually are much happier with FP+ than we were with legacy). That's why I hate seeing people talk about postponing or cancelling their trips just because of what we consider to be a minor change.

I'm all for checking out other vacation destinations I actually prefer travelling abroad to going to WDW, but it's not in the budget to travel abroad as often as we choose to travel to WDW. However, if you have your heart set on a WDW vacation- I would really hope you wouldn't cancel your trip that you've been looking forward to because of FP+.

 

[btk2333]

Is it because you are using your KTTW card for paper FP as well as FP+?

No- although you certainly could do that right now along with your AP if you have one. I haven't had a need to use legacy FP in addition to FP+ on my recent trips (June, November, December)

 

[patty57]

Tonight I looked through some of the Italy guidebooks at our local bookstore. It feels odd but I am really thinking of going elsewhere.

I don't hate FP+ but I'm just not sure that so much scheduling and the costs for what you get and so on will work for us in the future. I'm just not sure...

My husband and I spent a week in Rome in late October/early November. I love WDW, but for me, it doesn't compare to something like Italy. I think I had gotten into the habit of WDW being the first place I would think of for vacation. All of the MB problems, not being able to ride our favorites more than once, only one park for FP+, tiering and even more than that...cutting EMH hours and taking Splash Mountain out of evening EMH has caused me to rethink that vacation strategy. I actually think it's probably good for us.
By all means...go to Italy!!

 

[rebeccam31]

Tonight I looked through some of the Italy guidebooks at our local bookstore. It feels odd but I am really thinking of going elsewhere.

I don't hate FP+ but I'm just not sure that so much scheduling and the costs for what you get and so on will work for us in the future. I'm just not sure...

I like FP+ for the most part (have used it on two trips), and I love WDW dearly. And I still say GO TO ITALY!!!! It's amazing. If your heart's leading you there, do it.

 

[mom2rtk]

Sure, RD is still a good option... for those that can make RD. It's a bit ironic, IMO, to see RD constantly suggested as a way to make FP+ work better when FP+ was also supposed to help make it easier to not have to be at RD...

Yeah. Funny isn't it?

 

[Mkrop]

More time in standby lines = less time to ride more rides... I'm not sure why that's not understandable?

Sure, RD is still a good option... for those that can make RD. It's a bit ironic, IMO, to see RD constantly suggested as a way to make FP+ work better when FP+ was also supposed to help make it easier to not have to be at RD...

That is what kills me...dont sell me a bill of goods, that I wont need RD and that I can change things on the fly...bc when we tried it did not work. And with FP+ and FP- we still heavily used RD to tour how we like and to ride things multiple times. I felt bad when we could not do TT for my finally ready to ride anxious another time, when he came off the ride saying that was fabulous, can we go again, and the line was super long. And no he would not do single rider, he wanted someone in the car with him

 

[morethananyonex]

I think it's funny that so many people claim everyone should love FP+ because now people have a shot at TSMM who have never rode it, while on the other hand telling people who don't like the limits on the system that there is always SB line to ride.

Well, if stand by wasn't good enough for you to stand in to ride TSMM, then why is it a solution to the issues that FP+ has created? Obviously standing in a long line sucks, or you would have rode TSMM already.

 

[Disneylover99]

i don't think I understand how people are riding fewer rides than before

At MK we use FP for BTM, Splash Mountain, SM, PP, Winnie the Poo, Jungle Cruise and to meet MK. Those are the 7 fp's we would use for sure in a day and we are a rope drop family. Sometimes we will ride our favorites more then once using FP.

We have noticed longer standby lines at HM, POTC, ETWB with the addition of FP+. So FP+ for some attractions = longer standby lines.

If you only have access to 3 fp's per day at MK and you are used to many more, you will be riding fewer rides, because you will be waiting in the standby line more often then not.

 

[mom2rtk]

That is what kills me...dont sell me a bill of goods, that I wont need RD and that I can change things on the fly...bc when we tried it did not work. And with FP+ and FP- we still heavily used RD to tour how we like and to ride things multiple times. I felt bad when we could not do TT for my finally ready to ride anxious another time, when he came off the ride saying that was fabulous, can we go again, and the line was super long. And no he would not do single rider, he wanted someone in the car with him

That is something people without kids in this age range just don't see. And I see it as a huge loss with FP+. For the kid who FINALLY finds their inner thrill ride junkie...... if the standby lines are long, those "I finally did it and I love it, let's do it again" moments will now have a different ending. And honestly, if your child chickened out on TT on your last trip, are you going to gamble your only tier 1 FP+ slot on trying TT again on the next trip? No, because even though the system allows same day changes, it's not highly likely Soarin would be available to swap it to. This is going to force families to cater to the "safest" choices.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think it's funny that so many people claim everyone should love FP+ because now people have a shot at TSMM who have never rode it, while on the other hand telling people who don't like the limits on the system that there is always SB line to ride.

Well, if stand by wasn't good enough for you to stand in to ride TSMM, then why is it a solution to the issues that FP+ has created? Obviously standing in a long line sucks, or you would have rode TSMM already.

SPOT ON!

Funny how that works, huh?

 

[rt2dz]

i don't think I understand how people are riding fewer rides than before You just have to adapt as things change We've done three trips with FP+ and have done as much if not more on these trips than our trips in the past RD at one park and hop to another park (where you have your FP+ booked)- we've had no issues, even with tiering

Adapt? Sure. I have adapted to $3 gas v $1 gas, but that doesn't mean I like it. The difference is, I NEED a car that uses gas. I don't NEED a trip to WDW. I can "adapt" by not going. I can "adapt" by going less. I can "adapt" in many ways. Maybe there will be a touring plan that shakes out that FP isn't necessary. As things stand, from what I currently know, it is limiting and I don't like it.

I'm riding fewer rides because FP is limited now. I'm spending time in longer lines (theoretically. Honestly my first FP+ trip is in two weeks, exactly). It is also pulling us away from other things: sleeping in (we are not RD people), shows, parades, fireworks, people watching, etc. See my first post in this thread.

What you have to understand is, that's YOU and your touring style. It doesn't work for everyone. I'm glad it is working for some,but for those that have experienced both, I think the majority is it works the same or worse. I think the better is the smaller percentage. I'm not basing that on these (or other) boards and blogs, but people I know in the real world. The ones who are thrilled, are the ones who didn't know Legacy FP.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[Rileygirl]

You never saw it coming? People have been predicting it coming for a looooong time now lol. It's been inevitable. I've been following the FP+ discussion for a few months, and it really wasn't done that quickly. IMO it was actually a long time coming. Disney is pulling off the bandaid painfully slow, and I say that as someone who has a trip in about a month and would love to use FP-.

This limbo state of FP+ and FP- is frustrating to people planning their trip. I would love to know what the situation is going to be during my trip. Just roll out the damn thing already so we can start using it as it's intended to be used.

Sorry, just mumbling to myself regarding the 'speed' of roll out.

Certainly I am suprised a bit at just how long FP+ is taking for disney to introduce. And certainly I believed legacy was going. I guess my shock factor is that before roll out is really done, they are shutting the door on legacy.

Think about it. The single biggest factor that really hurts vets is the limitation of 3 fast pass per day. (Imho). Tiers, and prebooking, and all that other crap is just hoops we have to learn how to jump through, in order to maximize the system. We learned how to do it for fast pass originally, look at old post when the fp system was first introduced, there was pandomonium on the boards (sorta).

However, the limit of 3 is a big freakin deal, especially at the magic kingdom. Now, I have been offline for a few months, but I felt pretty confident that legacy would be available for quite a bit longer, just due to the fact that roll out was taking so long, and there were so many IT glitches going on. I thought, they cant take it away until the program is running smooth, AND they started bringing off site guests into the equation (at least a year or two away). And as long as there was legacy, there was no 3 fp limit truly, for those who learned how to maximize the system (read here that I was considering just going old school if double dipping was gone).

But no, that is not the case, Disney has ALREADY slammed the door at AK. Fascinating. Its done. 3 fp max at AK. For everyone. (unless extras are offered day of, or some sort of resort perk or something comes into play.)

I was kinda thinking, Disney cant piss off the off site people like this, its too big of a group. There is going to be huge ramifications if legacy is gone, and off site people only get the leftovers. Chaos! Anger!, Cats and dogs living together! But, Disney is going to do it, and do it soon. How can they do it?

Maybe because the general offsite person will notice very little to no difference. (not talking about a disboarder, but the average public). They still can get fastpasses, just like before. They still get them on the day of, just like before. Are they going to notice that the selection is way down? That they loose out on the good ones? Best time slots? Best attractions?

NOPE

Why not? Because Disney has just burned our little butts, thats why. Because the vets can no longer get 6 a day, and ALL for the headliners, we have put a WHOLE bunch of great FP's into play, with about the same pool of people who typically use fast passes. And when tiers really come into play, we added a whole bunch more of the good ones back in. Brilliant.

Now offsite guests who are in the 'know' may feel pressure (ie incentive) to stay on site in order to prebook their fast passes. That works for Disney. And as more people use the fp+, talking the general public down the road, its going to be more necessary to prebook, nice psychological pressure. And look at us planners. Even though we can KNOW its not essential to prebook, can we keep ourselves from doing it? I'm not sure I could.

But the fascinating thing is, Disney is turning off the pump for vets, and are subtly applying pressure on the off site 'in the know ' guest, and have not at all pissed off the general public. Its a thing of friggin beauty. (Tom, if you are reading this, dont take on the mouse, your team does not stand a chance....)

And, although I have not been reading a lot of the threads yet, I believe the promised 'pay off' of adding to the attractions with the 'interactiveness' of the magic band has been close to zero.

Remember how Walt invented 'imagineers', people who could make dreams a reality? Disney still has them, they are in the marketing department, not building attractions!

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti fast pass plus. I am not really for it either. I know how fp+ can be amazing for some group types, and they way they tour. And I truly believe FP+ is going to be amazing for the general disney goer, once they get roped into the system. I believe their experience is going to be a million times better. And I know Disney is going to make oodles of money off the scheme, they are revolutionizing target marketing and crowd control.

There are, however, some groups that might not be so happy with this system. And locking down legacy is going to make us squeal a bit, unless we can figure out a way to legally maximize the 'program'.

Thank goodness my kids are generally rope droppers!

~A

 

[rt2dz]

WDW has been coasting with lame attractions for years but things are closed closed for refurbishment everywhere? Those complaints seem incongruous with each other...

I don't think it is the refurbishments people are complaining about, but the lack of new attractions. "New" Fantasyland is a small expansion that appeals mostly to the under 7 set and little girls. And, yes, they are opening a new kiddie coaster, but that isn't going to appeal to my teen and tween boys, but they'll go for the littler ones and mom and Dad, and we also had to lose Snow White's dark ride for it. And it won't be a new ride, but another flipping princess attraction--won't appeal to any of my boys. The last ride prior to that was Toy Story midway Mania in May 2008. What did Universal add in that time? A lot! There is no reason disney couldn't have opened more; they've closed a lot. Disney isn't even hinting at anything else until 2015-2018, and Universal (biggest competitor) will add a massive amount of attractions in that time period. Better value.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[Mkrop]

I think it's funny that so many people claim everyone should love FP+ because now people have a shot at TSMM who have never rode it, while on the other hand telling people who don't like the limits on the system that there is always SB line to ride.

Well, if stand by wasn't good enough for you to stand in to ride TSMM, then why is it a solution to the issues that FP+ has created? Obviously standing in a long line sucks, or you would have rode TSMM already.

 

[mom2rtk]

Rileygirl, if you've been offline for a few months then you missed the days in October when legacy FP ran out at DHS and Epcot within 30 minutes of opening. It wasn't long after that they instituted the tiering.

And for me the tiering and limit of once per attraction are just as important as the limit of 3. The tiering turns that limit of 3 to a limit of 1 (based on our own prior usage) in those 2 parks. And the "once per attraction" limit has been a sore spot of mine since this rolled out. Once again, that could just be because of the way we like to do the parks.

 

[twopeasonepod]

We don't have little ones yet (wife is having twins in May though so we will soon) but I understand not wanting to upset her schedule. When we take our twins when they are young we know that we will not be able to tour as optimally as we have in the past either.

OT, but here is the thing…while I absolutely agree that this isn't the end of the world, if you don't have kids, you don't get how horrible it is to stand it line for a long time with them. I mean you might *think* you know, but you don't until you actually live it. And trust me, you won't want to be taking twins out to the parks anytime in the next couple of years. Especially if they are boys. Fighting all the time in line is no fun for anyone. Having just one is vastly different from having two at once. You will see how much you miss FP- then, I promise!

Oh and PS they aren't coming in May. You know that, right???

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't think it is the refurbishments people are complaining about, but the lack of new attractions. "New" Fantasyland is a small expansion that appeals mostly to the under 7 set and little girls. And, yes, they are opening a new kiddie coaster, but that isn't going to appeal to my teen and tween boys, but they'll go for the littler ones and mom and Dad, and we also had to lose Snow White's dark ride for it. And it won't be a new ride, but another flipping princess attraction--won't appeal to any of my boys. The last ride prior to that was Toy Story midway Mania in May 2008. What did Universal add in that time? A lot! There is no reason disney couldn't have opened more; they've closed a lot. Disney isn't even hinting at anything else until 2015-2018, and Universal (biggest competitor) will add a massive amount of attractions in that time period. Better value.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

I really do think that the families of the teen/tween set are the most unhappy with FP+. So many of the ones loving it are people without children or those with children young enough that they never did thrill rides anyway.

It's like they have decided to just write off the teenage set. But a lot of families with teenagers also have younger kids. It seems risky.

 

[crostorfer]

We don't have little ones yet (wife is having twins in May though so we will soon) but I understand not wanting to upset her schedule. When we take our twins when they are young we know that we will not be able to tour as optimally as we have in the past either.

"You know nothing John Snow."

Forgive me, for I'm not really trying to be rude, but without children, you really have no idea how this is impacting those of us who do, and whose children want to ride the same rides over, and over, and over and are now unable to without a lengthy wait that they've never had to encounter before. I've explained these changes to my 10 year old, who had the response of, "What is Disney DOING Mom?". At 7, she never would have understood why we have to wait 2 hours to get on the Tower of Terror a 2nd time, after using a Fastpass got us on with no wait the first time. And she absolutely wouldn't understand why we couldn't get a fastpass for the RNRR, if we used one for the ToT.

You will someday understand this plight young Padowan, but not now. Come back and revisit this topic in three or four years, if the system still stands as it is.