Not sure if I did right thing...situation at Drs office

[tar heel]

I'm a pretty flexible person and open to lots of shades of gray, but this one is clearcut. Of course you did the right thing. In this setting, anything that someone in a uniform tells a patient could be construed as medical advice. The fact that this "advice" involved criticizing the doctor's decisions makes it really extreme. I've worked in a health care organization, and this person would be disciplined if not fired where I worked.

fey -- when you get a job, be really careful about overstepping your bounds. When you are representing your employer, you keep your advice about things unrelated to your job to yourself if you want to remain employed.

 

[2binak]

I suppose you only have to hear "Fey I'm a nurse not a doctor" (heard often from my mom) before it sinks in that they can't give medical advice and usually not jut because it's illegal but because they don't know.

I know many nurses, both in my personal life and having been a patient, who give out medcial advice as if they are a dr though. Example - during a lengthy hospital stay following surgery, I lost count of how many times my dr's would tell me one thing and then as soon as they left the floor, the nurses would tell me something different. When I called a nurse on it, she said, "We're here with you all day, they're not. We know what goes on all day long while they are only here with you for a few mins." The next morning when one of my dr's stopped by and asked me why I wasn't doing such and such, I told him what the nurses had been telling me. Needless to say, he was NOT happy and after that, the nurses stopped contradicting his advice.

I've also had nurses in my family give medical advice to me & other people that turned out to be wrong and potential dangerous. In one instance, it had to do with a child who became sick about a week after getting vaccines. The nurse told the mom it was just a reaction to the vaccine and to stop worrying about it. Later that night, the mom took her child to the ER and low & behold, he was having asthma attacks which were in no way related to the vaccination.

You're fortunate to have a nurse who knows her boundaries.

 

[fey_spirit]

That may be a problem I would rather help make the world a better place then stay employed. Ah but thank you, I used to think money was the most important thing to me, I have been learning lately that this is not so. You just helped me add one more thing to the list.

fey -- when you get a job, be really careful about overstepping your bounds. When you are representing your employer, you keep your advice about things unrelated to your job to yourself if you want to remain employed.

 

[tonilea]

Wow! As someone who believes in the power of prayer, I am shocked! To advise anyone with mental health issues to just pray and stop taking their meds is nothing short of crazy! (Her, NOT you!)

 

[RitaZ.]

It is just very important to me that people know there are other ways to deal, either with or instead of medication. It's not that I'm anti medication because I'm not and I know they can help. What I am, is anti "pop a pill change your life." in other words using medication and medication alone instead of teaching people other means of coping as well.

I agree with this.

The one thing that we must remember about giving advice, especially the unsolicited type and even when it's given with the best of intentions, is that it may not be well received.

 

[Nennie]

I'm glad you said something!! Her comments were completely inappropriate!

A few years ago, I went for a consult with a new fertility doctor (to undergo my 4th IVF attempt). The nurse coordinator told me I needed to relax and go the spa, and that she told someone else to do this also, "and guess what, she got pregnant on her own."

I never went back to that doctor, but I regret not calling or sending a letter to let him know why.

 

[diznygirl]

That may be a problem I would rather help make the world a better place then stay employed. Ah but thank you, I used to think money was the most important thing to me, I have been learning lately that this is not so. You just helped me add one more thing to the list.

Consider then that the person you give the spiritual advice to actually stopped medications and then ended up dead, or killing someone? Is that making the world a better place?

In this case the doctor is fully aware of the patient's history, and the MA was not. The MA therefore could have created a very bad situation without having all the facts.

I'll go out on a limb and assume that the MA and others have some maturing to do before they understand the wisdom of knowing when to say something and when not to.

 

[fey_spirit]

I have stated repeatedly that I never suggest anyone goes off medication as I feel that is a personal choice, so this does not apply to me. If you choose to ignore that part of my statement when I have repeated it numerous times... then that is on you.

I have also stated repeatedly that I felt that the nurse handled things wrongly and asked about a situation in which things were handled very differently, yet you also choose to ignore that.

I am not sure how I alienated you to the point that you are incapable of hearing what I am actually saying, but I am sorry.

Consider then that the person you give the spiritual advice to actually stopped medications and then ended up dead, or killing someone? Is that making the world a better place?

In this case the doctor is fully aware of the patient's history, and the MA was not. The MA therefore could have created a very bad situation without having all the facts.

I'll go out on a limb and assume that the MA and others have some maturing to do before they understand the wisdom of knowing when to say something and when not to.

 

[diznygirl]

I have stated repeatedly that I never suggest anyone goes off medication as I feel that is a personal choice, so this does not apply to me. If you choose to ignore that part of my statement when I have repeated it numerous times... then that is on you.

I have also stated repeatedly that I felt that the nurse handled things wrongly and asked about a situation in which things were handled very differently, yet you also choose to ignore that.

I am not sure how I alienated you to the point that you are incapable of hearing what I am actually saying, but I am sorry.

Sorry, perhaps I could have worded my post better. There are situations, like you have agreed the OP had, where someone can overstep the boundaries. Sometimes it takes a lot of experience to know when those times are - it's not all black and white.

This situation could have been handled better by the MA not telling the OP that she should stop her medications.

 

[onyx8]

100% you did the right thing.

 

[fey_spirit]

Then we are in complete agreement
It is never ok for anyone other then YOUR doctor, To tell anyone to stop taking medication. I don't think even doctor's who are unaware of your case should make the blanket suggestion that you should stop taking medications.

Sorry, perhaps I could have worded my post better. There are situations, like you have agreed the OP had, where someone can overstep the boundaries. Sometimes it takes a lot of experience to know when those times are - it's not all black and white.

This situation could have been handled better by the MA not telling the OP that she should stop her medications.

 

[design_mom]

I agree that the OP handled the situation well. The nurse/MA should not have offered such advice.

I don't have a problem with someone saying "here's what worked for me" if were in a discussion about it. In this case, I believe the nurse only had access to the OP's information because she was acting as the doctor's agent.

If I shared information with my nurse because she was collecting it for the doctor, then the nurse proceeded to give me non-medical "advice," I would probably feel like my privacy had been violated, even if the advice was good.

If the same nurse was an acquaintance and I shared information about my condition during a discussion, then it would not bother me too much if she gave me "here's what worked for me in a similar situation" advice. I might not follow it, but I probably would not be offended.

 

[CathrynRose]

You absolutely did the right thing. #1 – what if you had alternative religious views? Who in the hell does this woman think she is?? #2 – Let’s say you’re a raging Christian Bible Thumping church go’er – and have been praying, and praying and praying and THIS was your last resort??

She has a lot of nerve.

And frankly, I don’t believe her prayer has gotten her through a full-blown panic attack. Unless you do take into consideration the power of our minds.

Lots of luck to you Happy – and yeah, you did the right thing.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

You know - I really should have been more clear on this to start with, but just to be sure we're on the same page... to the OP you did the right thing. She had no business suggesting you stop taking medication, nor did she have the right to bring a specific religion into the situation.

I'm not sure that I think that it's wrong to offer suggestions to others as to what worked for us when we have challenges in common, however there is a right and a wrong way to do that - and this nurse beyond a shadow of a doubt chose the WRONG way.

The nurse was also beyond a shadow of a doubt in the wrong to even discuss the OP's medical condition with her in the doctor's office while she was waiting for a medical doctor.

It doesn't matter what works for a person, it is totally inappropriate to throw that out to a patient who is there to visit a medical professional for her medical problem.

The nurse should have kept her mouth closed whether she believed God cures her, an alien, vitamins or any alternative therapy.

It is not appropriate for a nurse to discuss the patient's medical problem except for gathering information that is needed by the doctor.

OP, rest assured, you did the absolute right thing. No questions asked. That assistant was so far out of line in so many ways she should not be working in a doctor's office.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

I think if she was just sharing with you what works for her, that's okay. But as soon as she recommended you try it, that's when she stepped over the line.

I think you were right to let the doctor know.

Even sharing what works for her is inappropriate in a medical office. The assistant should be gathering information needed for the doctor and not discussing why the patient is there on such a personal level.

If she wants the doctor to share her story with his/her patients, then she should discuss it with the doctor and if he/she approves, then only the doc should offer the story.

It is so totally out of line for a medical assistant to "share" like that.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Now I am completely confused.
How is "I have that problem and this worked for me" giving medical advice?
And people share this type of information every day on these boards, how they dealt with illnesses and such that they share in common... what's the difference?

The difference is that on a discussion board, it is a "discussion"

It was inappropriate and unprofessional for the medical assistant to share in a doctor's office setting.

If they were sitting and having coffee, that would be different. Then feel free to share what works for you.

And the religious aspect of it makes it a thousand times more inappropriate in a medical office.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

Yes, but I never said I would approach it as the nurse in question did - I have already conceded that she handled this wrong on every possible level. I asked if she had handled it differently would it have been a different situation.

I can see your point in reference to the setting - and I don't know that I disagree. I just think that it's a little more complicated, if you feel that is your one and only chance to help another person I think I might have to take it... of course I would have said "I suffer from that too - and this is what I do" and that would be the end of it... well except maybe "I know it's scary right now - but there is a light at the end of the tunnel, it gets better I promise."

I would certainly hope that if you worked for a physician, you would get the physician's ok before sharing your story with HIS/HER patients.

It doesn't matter if you feel it is your duty to inform this person, you work for the doctor.

If you feel strongly about witnessing how you deal with your problem, set
up your own therapy clinic, write a book, or find some way to let people know about your methods other than forcing them on a captive audience who is waiting to see their medical professional.

Absolutely out of line to share what works for you especially if it is in direct conflict with what the doctor would recommend.

 

[Mickey's Minion]

That may be a problem I would rather help make the world a better place then stay employed. Ah but thank you, I used to think money was the most important thing to me, I have been learning lately that this is not so. You just helped me add one more thing to the list.

Would you like it if somebody with the same condition would come up to you and say?

"Sounds a bit grandiose, saving the world. Perhaps you are having an unrecognized manic period?

Tell you what works for me - medication. Perhaps you should try it."


Of course you wouldn't like it because you are satisfied with the treatment plan that works for you.

Thing is, most people are just as satisfied with the treatment plan they have chosen for themselves.

When one offers unsolicited advice on how to do something differently, there is an implication that the way the person being subjected to the advice is doing something substandard. And nobody likes it being subtly implied that they are not doing things correctly.

I can totally see saying "hey, I have bi-polar too. I know how tough it is"

That is being supportive.

Then, if the other person responds with "yeah, these meds are making me feel terrible, what do you take?", feel free to share.

But unless you are asked about your way of doing things, keep your mouth shut.

I agree with the others that advice, especially medical and spiritual advice, should be kept to one's self unless asked for by the other person. Unsolicited advice is more often not appreciated by the receiver than appreciated.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And people share this type of information every day on these boards, how they dealt with illnesses and such that they share in common... what's the difference?

Respectfully, if I posted a problem similar to the OP's (or any medical problem) here on the DIS, and a bunch of people posted medical advice, and you posted that you have the same problem I do and that prayer works for you and that I should try it, that would be 100% acceptable.

It's not acceptable in a medical setting. If I wanted spiritual advice - for example, if medical treatment wasn't working - I would go to the appropriate location/persons.

 

[tar heel]

What Katie said.