Not educating child

[kayrosek]

Tests aren't linked to teacher pay here either really (sort of..schools have to make a certain "grade" for teachers to get certain money in the fall...if a school fails the teachers get nothing..this is in excess of their salary and tied to some other factors as well but it is still being tied to some pay) but it most certainly impacts a school and the rating (and I am not talking about something like Great Schools but rather the state determination for the school..ours are letter grades now..A, B, C..etc) and a low enough rating results in schools losing funding and students. There are absolutely ties to graduation/diploma and grade promotion for them as well. Just because they don't right now impact who gets paid what does NOT mean they are not important and does not mean they are "just a guide". I would be extremely shocked if your public schools do little to nothing in regards to the tests because they are a huge part of NCLB.

In regards to teaching out of order..I don't think you are understanding at all..homeschoolers can teach at whatever pace they deem appropriate for their child..it is one of the big benefits of it. What at least I was trying to say is that they don't follow the same curriculum expected of a public/private school..if they need to or want to they might spend an entire year working on the basics of addition and subtraction..but based on public schools they should be doing fractions..my ODS is in 2nd grade and doing fractions right now..a homeschooler might not touch fractions for several more years because they want to focus on addition, subtraction and multiplication. They may teach American History before they teach state history or they might teach a concept in science before another. They might focus on reading or vocabulary in a different manner and order than the public/private schools as they have the luxury of setting it to suit their learner..some may choose a year to focus more on reading, less on math or more in science (or like some I know who do integrated lessons where they use math, reading, and science while studying about Alaska for example). I guess I can't figure out why you don't understand that..they don't and shouldn't be required to do things exactly when the public schools are..let's be honest..obviously we are doing things in schools that aren't working and homeschooling is often about being able to address individual learners on a personal basis not making it a one size fits all education. Boys for example learn to read often later than girls..a homeschooling parent could put their focus on math or handwriting while their child matures in reading..this is what I think most are talking about in regards to not being in a standard order.

Also tests are NOT a good judge of true learning either. I believe there are plenty of studies out there that explain why they don't and how ineffective they are as a measure of success.

Also for a homeschooler no it probably doesn't matter in regards to "grade level" and many don't focus on learning in a grade level specific manner so it really doesn't matter to them what the Dept of Ed says a 2nd grader should know because they don't agree with the speed or order or way it is taught..as I mentioned a homeschooler might put off fractions in "2nd grade" and wait until later while they emphasize basics like addition, subtraction and multiplication..so their kid wouldn't test in the same way a public school kid would and that isn't a bad thing because it doesn't mean they will never learn that concept..just that they haven't yet. Me I would like them to be able to focus on something until they "get it" because if you don't reinforce and make sure those basic building blocks are solid in their head they are going to struggle later on..instead right now there is always a push to move on to the next concept kids end up behind and then fall further and further behind because of how concepts often build off each other. Homeschoolers can easily address this by sticking to things until they determine a certain skillset and moving on to a progressively difficult concept.

Exactly! Thank you so much for saying exactly what I wanted to but couldn't phrase as well as I'd like. In the case of my children especially my oldest DD we are doing things in a very different order. They were both in public school for most of their school career and they both had major problems, not for the same reasons but still major problems. We are homeschooling because public school didn't work for them. First of all we are going back to a lot of basic concepts that she had a hard time understanding and we are staying on them as long as we need to until they click, second of all we are working to make her feel confident and to enjoy learning. A big part of that right now is focusing on finding every learning opportunity we can that fits her interest, third of all we are doing a lot of discussions, writing assignments, and hands on stuff. She freezes up horribly during tests so we are using other ways to see how she's doing and to get her thinking and finding ways to apply things she has learned. Giving her a test that she might not do well on simply because it's a test would definately be going backward for her. When we pulled her out she was convinced she was stupid, hated school and would actively fight anything she thought involved learning because she simply didn't think she was capable and didn't want to try. Now she is actively engaging in classes and suggesting new study ideas. If we had to administer a test to her right now to prove we were homeschooling I'm guessing she wouldn't do well, first of all because it's a test and second of all because we are spending a fair amount of time in certain subjects reviewing concepts she never understood well enough to begin with. I truly do think that once she masters a few of those building blocks she'll catch up quickly but yanking her out of home school where she is learning and putting her back in public school where she was slipping through the cracks no matter how hard we tried would be the worst possible thing for her right now.

 

[ccgirl]

All this talk of standerdized testing makes me wanna brag so much about how my dd did on her's in 2nd grade but... I know in the end I will be thrown to the wolves, told how much it doesn't matter and have everyone say their kid did better... =)

Heee....I have been thinking the same thing. But, you and I have no right to be proud of our students. In the end, it is the class grade that matters and not the standardized test anyway.

Don't homeschoolers still have to take SAT's to get in to college? I'm sure public schools throughout the country teach subject matters in a different order as well. I know my DD's private school teaches in a different order than the public school but they both still take standardized tests. I find it hard to believe schools in MA, TX, FL, CA etc teach the same exact subject matter at the same exact time. Yet, they still take standardized tests.

 

[HelenePA]

Okay I'm going to post it because its just too good not to post she did better than 98% of kids in 2nd grade who took the test for the language part.. and I have the poof if anyone wants to see it... I've held that score back from the dis for 3 months now... lol

 

[knitster]

Okay I'm going to post it because its just too good not to post she did better than 98% of kids in 2nd grade who took the test for the language part.. and I have the poof if anyone wants to see it... I've held that score back from the dis for 3 months now... lol

Congrats, you have every right to be proud - that's awesome!!

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

All this talk of standerdized testing makes me wanna brag so much about how my dd did on her's in 2nd grade but... I know in the end I will be thrown to the wolves, told how much it doesn't matter and have everyone say their kid did better... =)

We got report cards today. My kid totally did better than your kid.

Now that we have that out of the way...

Maybe your DH'll mention this to my boss, who's making us attend workshops and listen to speakers discuss the changes that're upon us?

I do agree that damage lingers from NCLB, and I don't predict that the new concept'll be any better.

Yes indeed. Repeat after me, boys and girls, the new phrase that pays is "common core standards." Let's just get the real name out of the way and call it by its real name: "common chore"

Heee....I have been thinking the same thing. But, you and I have no right to be proud of our students. In the end, it is the class grade that matters and not the standardized test anyway.

Don't homeschoolers still have to take SAT's to get in to college? I'm sure public schools throughout the country teach subject matters in a different order as well. I know my DD's private school teaches in a different order than the public school but they both still take standardized tests. I find it hard to believe schools in MA, TX, FL, CA etc teach the same exact subject matter at the same exact time. Yet, they still take standardized tests.

You're assuming that all homeschoolers are gearing their children for college. If that were the case, I don't think people would worry about testing homeschooled children. The problem is that there is a substantial group of homeschoolers who are NOT trying to prepare their children for higher education. Some of them may or may not appear on popular reality shows.

 

[skater]

Don't homeschoolers still have to take SAT's to get in to college?

I have to brag that my homeschooled child who never took a standardized test until the SAT, was somehow able to do very well on it. (Sorry - it seems OK to brag anonymously ).

Whenever I think about testing my children, I realize that I know where they are in their education much better than anyone else. Like I've said before - why would I need a test to tell me what I already know?

 

[skater]

Standardized tests are not difficult if your child is at or above grade level. If your child is not at or above grade level, homeschool or traditional school, wouldn't you want to know??

As I said in the previous post - I know better than the "experts" who write the test whether or not my child is able to complete the work at his or her grade level. And how well he or she can complete it. If DD is getting consistent A's on her tests, then I can assume she is at grade level .

One of my children learned to read at a later age than many children in public school (he was 8). (He was learning steadily but somewhat slowly). Two years later, he loves to read and is catching up with his grammar and writing at an accelerated pace. He's at grade level now, and I suspect that he may exceed grade level at the end of the year. He has a natural spelling ability that just developed this fall and was a surprise to me. My point is that a standardized test at 8 would in no way reflect the whole picture of who he would become. I knew that he would be OK better than a standardized test would "know." And he is confident in his intelligence because he has no idea that he started reading chapter books at a later age than some of his peers. I'm glad that he didn't have an expert or a test telling him otherwise. No two children are alike and nobody knows my children's ability like I do. I just don't see the point of having them tested .

 

[knitster]

One of my children learned to read at a later age than many children in public school (he was 8). (He was learning steadily but somewhat slowly). Two years later, he loves to read and is catching up with his grammer and writing at an accelerated pace. He's at grade level now, and I suspect that he may exceed grade level at the end of the year. He has a natural spelling ability that just developed this fall and was a surprise to me. My point is that a standardized test at 8 would in no way reflect the whole picture of who he would become. I knew that he would be OK better than a standardized test would "know." And he is confident in his intelligence because he has no idea that he started reading chapter books at a later age than some of his peers. I'm glad that he didn't have an expert or a test telling him otherwise. No two children are alike and nobody knows my children's ability like I do. I just don't see the point of having them tested .

I could've written this word for word about my 10 year old. After years of struggling with reading and spelling, he's suddenly taken off like a rocket and loves to read and has a natural spelling ability that I would've never thought he possessed merely a year ago.

 

[skater]

I could've written this word for word about my 10 year old. After years of struggling with reading and spelling, he's suddenly taken off like a rocket and loves to read and has a natural spelling ability that I would've never thought he possessed merely a year ago.

Yay! And isn't it exciting to watch that happen? I wouldn't trade it for anything .

 

[Wadekind]

I just don't see the point of having them tested .

The point of testing is to make sure that you really do know what you are doing so the child does not suffer the consequences if you do not. The other point of testing would be to catch those who say they are homeschooling but don't, see OP. Again, so the child does not suffer the consequences.

 

[ccgirl]

Okay I'm going to post it because its just too good not to post she did better than 98% of kids in 2nd grade who took the test for the language part.. and I have the poof if anyone wants to see it... I've held that score back from the dis for 3 months now... lol

Yeah! That's awesome. Weird but my DD got the same thing last year in grade 2 on the IOWA tests. Not sure if that is the same one you are referring to. She took a different standardized test this year in grade 3 and the results aren't back yet.

 

[herdtoDisney]

I'll start off by saying that I homeschooled my oldest children for several years. They've been in public schools now for several years. I loved homeschooling and I've been very happy with the public schools, as well.

That being said, I am against requirements for state standardized testing for homeschooled students. For starters, when I was homeschooling, I was taking all the responsibility of educating my children, on ME. I paid for everything-AND paid taxes too- and it is not the state's place to 'catch' me. I fufilled all my state's guidelines as written. They do not have the right to tell me I have to teach my child to a state test! In fact, in my state, my children were not even eligible to take the state test since they were not enrolled in public school.

It's not the state's place to run around trying to 'catch' homeschoolers. In my state at least, they need to concentrate on the kids enrolled in the failing city schools! It's an uneccessary burden to place on homeschooling parents, in a misguided effort to catch the VERY few parents who are not educating.

 

[knitster]

I'll start off by saying that I homeschooled my oldest children for several years. They've been in public schools now for several years. I loved homeschooling and I've been very happy with the public schools, as well.

That being said, I am against requirements for state standardized testing for homeschooled students. For starters, when I was homeschooling, I was taking all the responsibility of educating my children, on ME. I paid for everything-AND paid taxes too- and it is not the state's place to 'catch' me. I fufilled all my state's guidelines as written. They do not have the right to tell me I have to teach my child to a state test! In fact, in my state, my children were not even eligible to take the state test since they were not enrolled in public school.

It's not the state's place to run around trying to 'catch' homeschoolers. In my state at least, they need to concentrate on the kids enrolled in the failing city schools! It's an uneccessary burden to place on homeschooling parents, in a misguided effort to catch the VERY few parents who are not educating.

Could not have said it better myself

 

[Wadekind]

I'll start off by saying that I homeschooled my oldest children for several years. They've been in public schools now for several years. I loved homeschooling and I've been very happy with the public schools, as well.

That being said, I am against requirements for state standardized testing for homeschooled students. For starters, when I was homeschooling, I was taking all the responsibility of educating my children, on ME. I paid for everything-AND paid taxes too- and it is not the state's place to 'catch' me. I fufilled all my state's guidelines as written. They do not have the right to tell me I have to teach my child to a state test! In fact, in my state, my children were not even eligible to take the state test since they were not enrolled in public school.

It's not the state's place to run around trying to 'catch' homeschoolers. In my state at least, they need to concentrate on the kids enrolled in the failing city schools! It's an uneccessary burden to place on homeschooling parents, in a misguided effort to catch the VERY few parents who are not educating.

Asking for a test once or twice a year is an unnecessary burden? Really? An unnecessary burden on everyone is when any child goes into adulthood undereducated.
When someone chooses to educate on their own it should not exempt them from proving they are actually doing it. We demand accountability from public and private schools why not for home schools? I am not saying you shouldn't home school. I am saying I won't take just your word that your child is being educated. People do lie, the OP's situation reinforces this for me.

 

[Coconut36]

The point of testing is to make sure that you really do know what you are doing so the child does not suffer the consequences if you do not. The other point of testing would be to catch those who say they are homeschooling but don't, see OP. Again, so the child does not suffer the consequences.

So if testing is the standard for the child learning or "not suffering" what about all the public school kids who fail the test? Their cohorts are passing but they are failing..how does that work then?

 

[knitster]

Asking for a test once or twice a year is an unnecessary burden? Really? An unnecessary burden on everyone is when any child goes into adulthood undereducated.

You know what I would love to see? The statistics on homeschool graduates that are on public assistance. So far, the only statistics I've seen are those that state that homeschool graduates tend to score higher on the ACT and the ones that state that colleges and universities are actively, doggedly pursuing homeschool graduates to attend their schools.

When someone chooses to educate on their own it should not exempt them from proving they are actually doing it. We demand accountability from public and private schools why not for home schools? I am not saying you shouldn't home school. I am saying I won't take just your word that your child is being educated. People do lie, the OP's situation reinforces this for me.

Fortunately, the lovely thing about America is that you don't have to take their word for it because you don't get a say in how anyone else raises their children. :

 

[knitster]

So if testing is the standard for the child learning or "not suffering" what about all the public school kids who fail the test? Their cohorts are passing but they are failing..how does that work then?

Exactly. If standardized testing was truly "leaving no child behind", then maybe that argument would have a leg to stand on. But as it stands, the amount of children who are falling through the public school cracks far surpasses the amount of students who are falling through the homeschool cracks.

 

[ccgirl]

I'll start off by saying that I homeschooled my oldest children for several years. They've been in public schools now for several years. I loved homeschooling and I've been very happy with the public schools, as well.

That being said, I am against requirements for state standardized testing for homeschooled students. For starters, when I was homeschooling, I was taking all the responsibility of educating my children, on ME. I paid for everything-AND paid taxes too- and it is not the state's place to 'catch' me. I fufilled all my state's guidelines as written. They do not have the right to tell me I have to teach my child to a state test! In fact, in my state, my children were not even eligible to take the state test since they were not enrolled in public school.

It's not the state's place to run around trying to 'catch' homeschoolers. In my state at least, they need to concentrate on the kids enrolled in the failing city schools! It's an uneccessary burden to place on homeschooling parents, in a misguided effort to catch the VERY few parents who are not educating.

The same could be said for private schools as well. I believe they are exempt from standardized tests but the majority of the ones I am familiar with still use the standardized tests in order to measure how students are performing compared to others around the country. This way they can maybe switch gears and put more emphasis on things they may be lagging behind in. Guess I just don't see the issue with a standardized test. Do I think a certain grade needs to be scored on the test in order for matriculation, no. But, I see no issue with taking the test.

 

[princessmom29]

It always amuses me that when public school is being discussed, one of the biggest complaints you'll hear is that teachers are just "teaching to the test" and that the standardized testing system desperately needs to be overhauled. But, when homeschooling is being discussed, those same people will insist on the necessity of standardized testing for homeschoolers.

because we are talking about 2 different kinds of standardized testing. I don'tthink anyone would object ot a once yearly benchmark test used as just that, a benchmark for that particular child. Public school students take high stakes tests 5 or more times a year in my system, and thier teachers jobs depend on the results. THAT is the problem, not the SAT 10 once a year.

 

[ccgirl]

because we are talking about 2 different kinds of standardized testing. I don'tthink anyone would object ot a once yearly benchmark test used as just that, a benchmark for that particular child. Public school students take high stakes tests 5 or more times a year in my system, and thier teachers jobs depend on the results. THAT is the problem, not the SAT 10 once a year.

Exactly. I think benchmarking can be a great tool. As I said, it is requiring a certain grade on that one test for matriculation that I don't agree with.