NOT a Debate: Can you believe in God, but not the Bible?

[cheeringmom]

You can choose what you want to believe in but the Bible is the word of God. The two go hand in hand. As for me, I couldn't believe in God and not believe in what He says is true. "Everything in the Scriptures is God's word. All of it is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live" 2 Timothy 3:16

 

[Serena]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Actually, that is not accurate at all.

What part isn't accurate? Maybe I mistated it.

 

[goofy4tink]

Originally posted by cheeringmom
You can choose what you want to believe in but the Bible is the word of God. The two go hand in hand. As for me, I couldn't believe in God and not believe in what He says is true. "Everything in the Scriptures is God's word. All of it is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live" 2 Timothy 3:16

This is my problem with the Bible. (have to say here, that my mother is probably going to give me a slap upside the head, all the way from the hereafter at this post!!) The Bible, IMO, is not God's word, but man's interpretation of God's word. I am sure that most of the writers of the Bible had good intentions. But, they were still just 'mortal men'. The analogy I most use when discussing this very thing is this....Paul Bunyon was probably a very large guy...a 'freak' of nature. He probably had an albino ox. He was 'larger than life', I'm sure. Now, did he walk across the country, leaving the Great Lakes as his footprints? No, I certainly don't think so. It was most likely a giant game of Telephone, like the one we used to play as kids. Over the years he just grew to legendary proportions.

Now, am I saying that the Bible/God are just 'blown out of proportion' things? Of course not. But, by nature, man tends to try to make himself out to be more important. So, my point is that I'm sure that a lot of what is in the Bible is open to interpretation. You can almost find a phrase in the Bible to support whatever you want. I do believe most strongly in God and in Jesus, and in the Trinity. But, the Bible? Not as the absolute final word. I try to live my life as Jesus lived his....not doing as good a job as I would like, but I'm trying. And I'm getting better as I get older. I've come to realize that there are many different ways to look at God. My way might not be the same as your way, but that doesn't make your way wrong!! Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, it just doesn't make a difference.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by cheeringmom
You can choose what you want to believe in but the Bible is the word of God. The two go hand in hand. As for me, I couldn't believe in God and not believe in what He says is true. "Everything in the Scriptures is God's word. All of it is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live" 2 Timothy 3:16

Your quote illustrates part of my dilemma. Timothy said that quote, not God. Timothy is a man. Men are fallible. And men other than Timothy had access to thw writings through time and could have alered, added or subtracted the text. That doesn't mean that any of this DID happen. But it can't be disproven as POSSIBLE. Which is where I've had a large problem.

It is proven that WHOLE BOOKS have been added and subtracted from the Bible as the years went on. In light of this, is it really such a great leap to presume that men altered the Bible in some ways. Or even simply misinterpreted it? And if they did, can the Bible then still be called inerrant?

 

[Pop Daddy]

if someone believes in God but not the Bible there beliveing in a god that they made up (because what ever you decide then thats what god is)

 

[cheeringmom]

Originally posted by treesinger
Your quote illustrates part of my dilemma. Timothy said that quote, not God. Timothy is a man. Men are fallible. And men other than Timothy had access to thw writings through time and could have alered, added or subtracted the text. That doesn't mean that any of this DID happen. But it can't be disproven as POSSIBLE. Which is where I've had a large problem.

?

"Everything in the scriptures is God -breathed" is another tranlation. I believe God put these words in Timothy's mouth. Call it faith if you want but I truly believe EVERY word of the Bible. Can I debate on this? No. but i have faith that the Bible is Gods true word.

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by treesinger
This question is meant more for belivers to answer. I believe in God, but not necessarily the Bible. DW says that is muy inconsistent, and I disagreed. What say you?

I agree with him. I am christian and it is impossible to believe in Jesus Christ without believing his word. The Bible is his road map of mistakes made by others so we do not make them again, and the promises and curses that are still true today. I have proved it with my own life.

If you have religion that is one thing, but if you are saved then you will believe the bible because that is how he talks to you. You talk back when you pray.

If you really want an answer, ask God to show you his word is true.

Leave your bible open one night before you go to bed and don't look at it until the next morning.

Ask him to reveal the answer to you and read the first thing your eye catches and hear it with your heart and your faith not your mind.

SO many people today live by reason and emotions and they don't get that with God you live by faith. That means if you get fired today you don't freak out because you know God has something else in mind.

WIthout faith it is impossible to have a relationship with God and how can you say you have faith and believe what he says if you don't believe the Bible which is his testimony.

It is not enough just to know he died for us. Murderers can belive that. In fact, most of the world believes in a God but it is the relationship that counts.

Just ask him, he will let you know.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

I think you certainly can. I am an agnostic. I am an agnostic primarily because I WANT to believe. I do not however, think that highly of organized religion. I think churches and religious groups can serve their communities well, but I also don't like groupthink. I think for myself and I think if there is a god or goddess that he or she would be appalled at some of the atrocities being committed in the name of religion now and throughout history. I think most bible stories teach good morals but some do not.

Also, not all religions follow the bible but many believe in the same God. Wiccans believe in a God and a Goddess. Other religions beleive in totally different Gods than the one in the major religions. Some religions beleive in a spirit that is not really a god but a moving force that guides us.

I think one can believe and have faith without being a bible quoter.

But I also do not like the way Christians and bible readers are bashed in todays society either. I think a lot of people are very intolerant of Christianity in this country and I for one, am one agnostic who is sick and tired of it.

Everyone in this country should be free to worship as they wish. I do not see any problem with having religious symbols in public as long as each religion is allowed to. If someone wants to put up a statue of the 10 commandments, it certainly does not offend me as long as there is no law made so that an Islamic or other religious affiliate could not put of a statue witha verse from their religious text.

I think it would be nice if rather than complain about monuments like this, if members of other religious groups made up monuments of their religious beliefs and posted them on the courthouse lawn side by side. That is what this country was founded on. Liberty for all.

I also do not see any problem with teaching religion as it pertains to history in the public schools. When I say religious symbols and religion, I mean all religious symbols and religions.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I believe in God, but don't necessarily read or study the Bible. In fact, I don't think I've opened a Bible in years. Doesn't mean I don't believe in God, though.

 

[septbride2002]

A friend once told me that the bible was the first book written by a committee. For those that believe that the bible is the absolute word of God you should ask the Roman Catholic Church for the other Gospels that are not a part of your bible. Especially the one that is believed to be written by Jesus Christ himself. If there was a gospel believed to be written by Jesus Christ himself why would the church hide it from the people? - Simple there is something in there that they don't like.

We have all seen the corruption of the Catholic Church - lets not pretend that these men do not have sin. They are looking out for the better interest of the Church not for the people of the church.

Yes you can believe in God and Jesus Christ without having full belief in everything the bible says. Heck you can believe in them without ever reading a bible - it is called faith. Before the written word people still believed.

~Amanda

 

[Aimeedyan]

OP, I get what you mean now... you aren't asking if you can believe in God but not the BIble, but instead, can you believe in God and not believe the Bible is inherrant. Two totally different things.

I don't believe the BIble is inherrant, and agree with many of your statements regarding it's content and authorship. Personally, I think it's crazy for anyone TO believe it's infallible and inherrant! =)

 

[cardaway]

I believe in a higher power but I would also like to see the bible put in the fiction section and churches treated as the businesses they are.

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by septbride2002
A friend once told me that the bible was the first book written by a committee. For those that believe that the bible is the absolute word of God you should ask the Roman Catholic Church for the other Gospels that are not a part of your bible. Especially the one that is believed to be written by Jesus Christ himself. If there was a gospel believed to be written by Jesus Christ himself why would the church hide it from the people? - Simple there is something in there that they don't like.


I think that Stigmata movie made people think too much. If Jesus wrote anything, he would have included it I am sure. He gave us his word which is the Bible. If you are looking for proof that the disciples are real you may not find too much, that is why to truly believe in God you need faith. You believe what you CAN"T see.

 

[Melora]

"But I also do not like the way Christians and bible readers are bashed in todays society either. I think a lot of people are very intolerant of Christianity in this country and I for one, am one agnostic who is sick and tired of it.

Everyone in this country should be free to worship as they wish."

I think you are very correct..everyone SHOULD be free to worship anyway they please. I think the problem a lot of people have with CERTAIN christians is that they dont want you to believe anyway but their way. Certain factions of Christianity are some of the most UN-christian-like people in the world.... They want to shove their beliefs down your throat. They cant stand that you aren't "saved". I appreciate their concern, but really, Im not interested. I am very happy with my beliefs and would not change mine any more than they will change theirs. I dont want to have to deal with their beliefs in a public place or my schools. I think religioin should be a personal, not a public thing.

 

[Melora]

treesinger, I completely understand what you are saying and applaud you for the thought you are putting into the matter.

I find it very distasteful to listen to people blindly believe anything another human being has told them without any thought to the logic of it all.

Religion is a way for we mortals to try to understand that which is truly not understandable in so many ways.

As I have said before, I truly believe most of us will be surprised when we reach the other side! I am a very spiritual person and cannot believe that when I die all that is who I am, is gone forever.

Just as it seems impossible to believe in the vastness of the universe, and the fact that it had to come from somewhere (or maybe it didnt, maybe it was always here). Either way, to our physical limited bodies this seems incomprehensible, yet the fact remains that there is a universe and how it got into exsistence (I mean pre-big bang of whatever started it in the first place). For that reason I believe there is something more powerful and more awesome that anything the scientists can explain with our current technology.

Dont know if I got that all out so it made sense!

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by cheeringmom
"Everything in the scriptures is God -breathed" is another tranlation. I believe God put these words in Timothy's mouth. Call it faith if you want but I truly believe EVERY word of the Bible. Can I debate on this? No. but i have faith that the Bible is Gods true word.

I'm not debating whether or not Timothy was divinely inspired or spoken to by God. What I'm saying is many many years after the fact, other people, church officials, etc., had access to the writings and could add, delete or alter the text that Timothy was spoken to to write.

I'm not arguing that God's word ir inerrant. Rather, I'm saying human involvement after the fact can create errors. And because I find this to be an incredibly reasonable assumption (there IS proof of biblical editing, hence there would not be an apochrypha).

And believe me when I say I am NOT mocking believers here. I'm trying to "get there" myself, but I just can't accept things too blindly.

Case in point, I had a problem that for near 2 years, no one could answer. finally, my wife made it perfectly clear and it was resolved. This thread is just another attempt for me to rectify the problems I see. It may take a couple years, but every step is hopefully getting me closer to believing fully.

 

[KristaTX]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
But I also do not like the way Christians and bible readers are bashed in todays society either. I think a lot of people are very intolerant of Christianity in this country and I for one, am one agnostic who is sick and tired of it.

Thank you . Some people from Christian groups are hateful people who do not live and love other people as Christ lived and loved. They bash everything (inluding that horrible Disney company ). That is what I was getting at in the final paragraph of my previous post. The problem is that most of us are NOT like that. It is sad and embarrassing, but oftentimes the not-so-nice Christians ("Christians"?) are much more visible than the rest of us. It is refreshing to see that someone views us as people, and not as just a group. That is how I try to see people as well. It is sometimes difficult not to lump people into stereotypical groups in our minds, but that seems to be one way that hatred begins and persists.

Treesinger - I'll try to quit changing the subject . But thanks for having started an interesting thread.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by southernclass
I agree with him. I am christian and it is impossible to believe in Jesus Christ without believing his word. The Bible is his road map of mistakes made by others so we do not make them again, and the promises and curses that are still true today. I have proved it with my own life.

If you have religion that is one thing, but if you are saved then you will believe the bible because that is how he talks to you. You talk back when you pray.

If you really want an answer, ask God to show you his word is true.

Leave your bible open one night before you go to bed and don't look at it until the next morning.

Ask him to reveal the answer to you and read the first thing your eye catches and hear it with your heart and your faith not your mind.

SO many people today live by reason and emotions and they don't get that with God you live by faith. That means if you get fired today you don't freak out because you know God has something else in mind.

WIthout faith it is impossible to have a relationship with God and how can you say you have faith and believe what he says if you don't believe the Bible which is his testimony.

It is not enough just to know he died for us. Murderers can belive that. In fact, most of the world believes in a God but it is the relationship that counts.

Just ask him, he will let you know.

I guess I should clarify and say that my problem mainly rests in the OT, not much in the NT. I see belief in Jesus and belief in God to be subtly different. I'm more concerned with belief in God and belief in all of the things the Bible says God said and the things that purportedly happened.

It's a shame that miracles aren't as obvious today as they were then. It would be so much more clear to me I think.

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by Melora
treesinger, I completely understand what you are saying and applaud you for the thought you are putting into the matter.

I find it very distasteful to listen to people blindly believe anything another human being has told them without any thought to the logic of it all.

Religion is a way for we mortals to try to understand that which is truly not understandable in so many ways.

As I have said before, I truly believe most of us will be surprised when we reach the other side! I am a very spiritual person and cannot believe that when I die all that is who I am, is gone forever.

Just as it seems impossible to believe in the vastness of the universe, and the fact that it had to come from somewhere (or maybe it didnt, maybe it was always here). Either way, to our physical limited bodies this seems incomprehensible, yet the fact remains that there is a universe and how it got into exsistence (I mean pre-big bang of whatever started it in the first place). For that reason I believe there is something more powerful and more awesome that anything the scientists can explain with our current technology.

Dont know if I got that all out so it made sense!

First of all, thanks! And, please, call me Jason.

This whole "overthinking" thing is what''s made my spiritual journey sooo much bumpier and arduous than it really should be. But if I do anything that feels illogical, unreasonable or against my better judgement regarding faith, I feel it would be betraying God to only give of myself half-heartedly.

 

[grinningghost]

Originally posted by Serena
I say that I believe in god. I'm not crazy about religion and my thoughts are mixed about the bible. But I know god. And if I'm going through a time that I might forget, he reminds me he's around taking care of me. In one way or another.

Very well said. This is exactly what I do. I've always believed a person can be spiritual without following a specific religion.