Norway Ride & Rivers Of Light (Disappointing Progress Updates)

[rteetz]

Personally...I think the measure of success or failure is longevity/reridability (if that's a word)...

I wouldn't put up a "mission accomplished" banner because there's a 5 hour wait from a captive audience.

The real test...and what they need...is something that is iconic. They haven't had that for awhile...

...personally speaking

I don't think this ride will lose popularity at least any time soon. Maelstrom got decent waits and had some popularity but it wasn't something like say Winnie the Pooh or a similar dark ride. I think frozen will last and have be popular like a Winnie the Pooh type ride.

 

[rteetz]

I'm not looking for cedar point...or anything in the same Galaxy...

The reality is that the cost of animal kingdom - even if some things are top notch - falls far short on the product from a business standpoint. It has been a problem since day one.

You need to think of the Parks in the aggregate - in Florida that means what it has and hasn't allowed to be done with the rest of the property.

It's not the tired "Disney doesn't do rollercoasters so it's ok" defense/mantra.

It's not about that.

Every park Disney does goes over budget. Disneyland did, Epcot did, AK did. I don't think it's fair to just pick on AK. What about Epcot what about DCA, what about Paris(either of the parks).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Every park Disney does goes over budget. Disneyland did, Epcot did, AK did. I don't think it's fair to just pick on AK. What about Epcot what about DCA, what about Paris(either of the parks).

In the current setting...animal kingdom is the one that causes the most headaches.

Epcot was horribly overbudget...but they didn't cut corners and slash 1/3 of the park.

The overall expenses of animal
Kingdom...the real, no bs costs...rival those of shanghai...

In 90's and 00's dollars.

 

[rteetz]

In the current setting...animal kingdom is the one that causes the most headaches.

Epcot was horribly overbudget...but they didn't cut corners and slash 1/3 of the park.

The overall expenses of animal
Kingdom...the real, no bs costs...rival those of shanghai...

In 90's and 00's dollars.

I understand but if it was such a problem wouldn't they change things? Like maybe get rid of some animals and stuff like that. They haven't though.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

I was at Universal the second day it opened. Nothing worked. The boat captain on Jaws had to tell us what would have happened because Jaws would not come out of the water. King Kong's AA was stationary on at least one of the AAs at all times. They gave us free tickets on the way out because it was so bad.

Oh wow you got to witness Universal's opening, do you have anymore stories? Personally I find early-Universal extremely fascinating, it was like an entirely different place when it first opened

In the current setting...animal kingdom is the one that causes the most headaches.

Epcot was horribly overbudget...but they didn't cut corners and slash 1/3 of the park.

The overall expenses of animal
Kingdom...the real, no bs costs...rival those of shanghai...

In 90's and 00's dollars.

Um... Meet the World? Rhine River Cruise? All those countries that were originally supposed to happen as part of phase 2 or opening day? Animal Kingdom did get a phase 2 (in Asia) so it was definitely not a third of the park

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I understand but if it was such a problem wouldn't they change things? Like maybe get rid of some animals and stuff like that. They haven't though.

They can't realistically do that...

They need to double down and plow through...which will cause more pain but may be the only way long term.

But...they need to do it with better people...I know you hate that idea but it is the truth. Not everything can be triple budget and take forever.

I think the comparison of "cuts" between Epcot and animal kingdom as
Constructed is silly...frankly. What was built/cut doesn't pass the sniff or the eyeball test. Animal kingdom was a spoke and wheel layout with full sections deleted and others woefully inadequate. Epcot was solid when the world showcase opened and would have held up as is for 20 years with little need for excuses. Just the facts.

But I don't want to go too far off the course here. Both parks currently need a big pile of cash and really effective management moving forward.

 

[rteetz]

They can't realistically do that...

They need to double down and plow through...which will cause more pain but may be the only way long term.

But...they need to do it with better people...I know you hate that idea but it is the truth. Not everything can be triple budget and take forever.

I think the comparison of "cuts" between Epcot and animal kingdom as
Constructed is silly...frankly. What was built/cut doesn't pass the sniff or the eyeball test. Animal kingdom was a spoke and wheel layout with full sections deleted and others woefully inadequate. Epcot was solid when the world case opened and would have held up as is for 20 years with little need for excuses. Just the facts.

But I don't want to go too far off the course here. Both parks currently need a big pile of cash and really effective management moving forward.

I know you aren't a Joe Rohde fan but the problem isn't him. It's imagineering as whole. That's the reason they fired Bruce Vaughn because they go so far over budget. Look at toy story land originally it had a $400 million budget but that was cut to $268 million. Imagineering just has a problem with budgets.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I know you aren't a Joe Rohde fan but the problem isn't him. It's imagineering as whole. That's the reason they fired Bruce Vaughn because they go so far over budget. Look at toy story land originally it had a $400 million budget but that was cut to $268 million. Imagineering just has a problem with budgets.

Oh I agree its systemic more than one person...no argument.

But that one person has shown zero urgency to get imagineering any credibility with the accountants. That's a fight they're gonna lose.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Personally...I think the measure of success or failure is longevity/reridability (if that's a word)...

I wouldn't put up a "mission accomplished" banner because there's a 5 hour wait from a captive audience.

The real test...and what they need...is something that is iconic. They haven't had that for awhile...

I think this will go down as a nice, modern take on a small-scale, fantasy-based dark ride. It's in a class with Peter Pan, Pooh and ET at Uni.

But it is nowhere near to being an "iconic" dark ride, which is a space occupied by Splash Mountain, Pirates and practically nothing else.

So you have a D-ticket princess ride which is randomly located between a boat tour of Mexico starring Donald Duck with a tequila bar in front, and a documentary movie tour of China. The next closest neighbors are a bratwurst and oompah band restaurant and an empty building (Odyssey Center).

The real debate is, what is the purpose of the Epcot park other than being the venue for semi-permanent food and wine type events and the default second day of people's multi-day park passes? To be relegated to third day after Avatar opens and fourth day after Star Wars Land.

 

[Boski]

I think with the failure of RoL Disney should have done its darnedest to make this thing be as reliable as possible. It sounds like they rushed it because they didn't want the press of "Disney fails to meet another opening date" so we're stuck with it working intermittently. It was down a lot yesterday and seems to have gone down at least twice today.

 

[Mitzicat]

Oh wow you got to witness Universal's opening, do you have anymore stories? Personally I find early-Universal extremely fascinating, it was like an entirely different place when it first opened

Um... Meet the World? Rhine River Cruise? All those countries that were originally supposed to happen as part of phase 2 or opening day? Animal Kingdom did get a phase 2 (in Asia) so it was definitely not a third of the park

I was at one of the opening days of Universal and I remember as we walked thru the gates they handed us a free ticket to come back. It wasn't a fun day for a kid who was used to Disney World.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

To be relegated to third day after Avatar opens and fourth day after Star Wars Land.

I like your points but I don't think avatar land is going to push Animal Kingdom to be the second park on those tickets. Nothing against avatar or Animal Kingdom at all I'm just speaking from the point that Epcot is more iconic in a sense and is thought about more whenever you try to just pick two parks to represent the resort.

Star Wars land on the other hand might... But we'll have to wait and see on that

 

[HopperFan]

I think this will go down as a nice, modern take on a small-scale, fantasy-based dark ride. It's in a class with Peter Pan, Pooh and ET at Uni.

But it is nowhere near to being an "iconic" dark ride, which is a space occupied by Splash Mountain, Pirates and practically nothing else.

So you have a D-ticket princess ride which is randomly located between a boat tour of Mexico starring Donald Duck with a tequila bar in front, and a documentary movie tour of China. The next closest neighbors are a bratwurst and oompah band restaurant and an empty building (Odyssey Center).

The real debate is, what is the purpose of the Epcot park other than being the venue for semi-permanent food and wine type events and the default second day of people's multi-day park passes? To be relegated to third day after Avatar opens and fourth day after Star Wars Land.

I agree with your assessment of the ride. It's going to have long lines and become the next Peter Pan but until it dies down a little bit I wonder what they are going to do. All FP+? Having folks in these long standby lines is not profitable and when it severely impacts FP+ they need to reevaluate.

I also agree that the debate (and let's hope the execs are debating) is the future of Epcot. Disney is going to be looking at this park from a business point of view. I think in the end lots of people are going to be upset, very upset based on the Froway issue ........ but I would be shocked if more Disneyana does not start coming in to the park. Bottom line, Universal has over 400 acres that are probably going to change the whole face of Orlando theme parks and Disney needs to get in the game or split stays could become the norm with a park like Epcot losing. (I love Epcot, but I also see it's flaws)

I was at Universal the second day it opened. Nothing worked. The boat captain on Jaws had to tell us what would have happened because Jaws would not come out of the water. King Kong's AA was stationary on at least one of the AAs at all times. They gave us free tickets on the way out because it was so bad.

I remember being at a Disney resort back then, the kids were too young for Universal and we would end days at the pool. Every night folks were coming back complaining that everything at Universal kept breaking. I kept thinking, good thing the kids are too young and hopefully by time they are old enough Universal would figure it out. At least they are still doing soft openings, they are just really important to get real life operation kinks out.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

I was at one of the opening days of Universal and I remember as we walked thru the gates they handed us a free ticket to come back. It wasn't a fun day for a kid who was used to Disney World.

Was it not fun because you were so used to Disney or because of the rides being broken? Or both? I know some rides were working like Hanna was and I'm not sure if ET had the same problem as the other tracked rides in the park

 

[Mitzicat]

Was it not fun because you were so used to Disney or because of the rides being broken? Or both? I know some rides were working like Hanna was and I'm not sure if ET had the same problem as the other tracked rides in the park

I was used to Disney and some of the rides weren't even open. ET was working and was awesome. Being 16 I enjoyed the walk thru of Nickelodeon Studios. The Alfred Hitchcock and Ghostbusters "shows" were really cool. Kong and Earthquake were the only other 2 we got to see. Jaws was down. Hanna was just ok. It just seemed empty compared to Disney. And I should say we were probably there in July of 1990 not the first day or week it opened. But I remember them handing us a ticket to come back anytime.

 

[Boski]

#makeepcotgreatagain

They could start by bringing back Wonders of Life.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think this will go down as a nice, modern take on a small-scale, fantasy-based dark ride. It's in a class with Peter Pan, Pooh and ET at Uni.

But it is nowhere near to being an "iconic" dark ride, which is a space occupied by Splash Mountain, Pirates and practically nothing else.

So you have a D-ticket princess ride which is randomly located between a boat tour of Mexico starring Donald Duck with a tequila bar in front, and a documentary movie tour of China. The next closest neighbors are a bratwurst and oompah band restaurant and an empty building (Odyssey Center).

The real debate is, what is the purpose of the Epcot park other than being the venue for semi-permanent food and wine type events and the default second day of people's multi-day park passes? To be relegated to third day after Avatar opens and fourth day after Star Wars Land.

You know I pretty much agree with you.

If it's a nice dark ride..that's ok. Just like soarin is a "nice ride"...mine train is a "nice ride"...midway mania is a "nice ride"

But that's it...the lines have become big just on sheer volume. They give a false sense of accomplishment to Disney who haven't done a thing remotely innovative in forever.

People forget that Disney did invent many of the systems used everywhere...they did it first, best, and for the longest time. That's a tangent though.

The question still remains: "why is it there?"

There's just no good answer. I welcome a frozen ride...

...it should be in mgm.

Pounders decry any criticism of Classic Disney...but they were some of the most vocal to shout those of us down who defend Epcot and cried foul on this move.

Frozen ride in a country?
"What's the big deal...my DD wants it!!"

But if we put sponsored technology show in small world?

BOOM!

...things were designed to have their place.

I hope the technical issues are worked out and they get a lot of people on the thing...really do. But still think the price was too high and the desire to capitalize on a faded fad was misguided. Round peg in a square hole.

...I know...don't be a "downer"...Head in the sand is better

 

[lockedoutlogic]

#makeepcotgreatagain

They could start by bringing back Wonders of Life.

Or making the slightest attempt to replace anything removed/failed

Innoventions needs a new concept

Imagination needs a full redo

Millenium village needs a wrecking ball

Wonders needs replaced

Mission space and test track won't last forever.


It would be nice to get leadership that would do what is necessary...publically adopt the vision that should still be Epcot...add two pavilions and two countries...make it "too big to fail"

Even for a public who have gotten lazy in there attention spans and spoiled with their recreation.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

I was used to Disney and some of the rides weren't even open. ET was working and was awesome. Being 16 I enjoyed the walk thru of Nickelodeon Studios. The Alfred Hitchcock and Ghostbusters "shows" were really cool. Kong and Earthquake were the only other 2 we got to see. Jaws was down. Hanna was just ok. It just seemed empty compared to Disney. And I should say we were probably there in July of 1990 not the first day or week it opened. But I remember them handing us a ticket to come back anytime.

Interesting trip report! Wish I wasn't so young so I could remember when I visited Nickelodeon Studios. I'm not one of those crazy people that think it should reopen but I wish there was more info on it. And Hanna really was just ok rewatching it. It's replacement, Nicktoon Blast was my favorite ride there but now that's gone. Haven't tried Minion Mayhem yet but I'm looking forward to it if I ever go back. I don't know why but old Universal just fascinates me so thank you for your update!

 

[TheRustyScupper]

It appears, by all accounts, to be a hit and not a bomb.

1) The ride is unique.
2) But, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
3) Sorry, but uniqueness does not count if you can't get on it to see/experience it.