Northeast "Selective" Colleges

[PatsGirl]

Instead of hijacking an earlier thread, I"m interested in opinions and experiences of those with students who applied to colleges in the Northeast. Forget about the financial aspects for a moment (that is a thread of its own lol) and tell us what schools were applied to and general information about the applicant. I'm trying to get an idea of where she should be applying. I'm familiar with the reach/match/safety idea but no one is really telling us the particulars. Of course, if you are not comfortable giving up the info, this thread might not be for you lol

DD is in the top 5% of a very rigorous charter school (unfortunately they don't rank but she's been told by a reliable source that she is #2, again another thread ), has a weighted 4.3 GPA, and takes the equivalent of 3 AP and 3 IB courses. She has yet to receive anything less than an A- in any class ever. Her SATS aren't great, they are around 2000 but she'll take them again and she'll take the ACT as well. So, schools she is looking at (this is a very shortened list) including Amhert, Vassar, Tufts, Wellesley, Barnard (reach schools), Mt. Holyoke, Skidmore, Smith, UMass, Bucknell (match schools we think?), Simmons, Susquehanna and I can't remember the others (safety).

Anyone have experience with these admission offices and feel like sharing?

 

[java]

SATs of 2000 aren't great? I think so.

I would say she should be fine, but how involved is she and is she individual? What makes her a standout? Focus on the unusual. I was given that tip from an admissions officer at a "selective" school.
Edit to add i suppose I should say interesting vs. Unusual. But you get the idea

 

[PatsGirl]

Java, that's right. They need that one thing that makes them standout from all the others. I'm not sure she has that, and one of the reasons I started this thread. I want to get an idea of what type of student is getting into these schools she is looking at. She is active enough, manages her school bookstore, went to Girls State this summer, earned both Bronze and Silver GSA awards and is working on her Gold. Full time job for the past three summers and part time during the school year, including a new gig tutoring Latin to a rising Sophmore this summer as well. I guess my biggest concern is lack of sports and/or arts-type programs. There is some guilt here, I never allowed either of my kids to be what I considered "over-involved" and limited their extra-cirriculars to two at any given time. I'm a stickler for a good nights' sleep and "down-time", neither of which I had ever considered a detriment to getting into a great college until now.

And FWIW, 2100-2200 is the average SAT at her reach schools and 2000-2100 at her "match" schools so her score has to increase or her search has to start over.

 

[Christine]

I can't answer directly about the Northeast schools but I just wanted to comment about our experience with selective schools in our area and from what I read.

Her placement in the top 5% of her class is plus.
Her weighted GPA of 4.3 is good.
How many APs does she have total? In our area, if the total is 3 for all 4 years, then she would probably not make it into the selective school. I know IB equivalent so maybe she has 6 classes total? Which is better.

I agree that her SATs aren't "great" but they are good. My son, who was quite a bit "less" of performer than your DD had close to that. Those scores are not a lock for a selective school. Hopefully the retake will garner her another 100 points.

I wouldn't worry about the sports. Your DD has done so many things and I've heard that sports in and of themselves are not necessarily what they focus on. It's just any extracurriculars. And leadership. Leadership is a big one. I think that should be focused on in her applications. What did she do in these organizations? Did she just follow or did she hold leadership positions?

 

[PatsGirl]

Thanks Christine for input. We'll have to brainstorm the "leadership" criteria. Other than managing the school store, everything has been in a small group. She did run for class president but lost and ran for an office at Girls State but lost. As is usually the case, it is popularity that garnishes the most votes and she was prepared to lose on that angle alone. She is somewhat of a "geek" which again I always perceived as a good thing but in the end, it looks as though it might be a negative for her. Oh yeah, she just reminded me that she has been in acapella year-round now for three years. How do I forget those things?

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Instead of hijacking an earlier thread, I"m interested in opinions and experiences of those with students who applied to colleges in the Northeast. Forget about the financial aspects for a moment (that is a thread of its own lol) and tell us what schools were applied to and general information about the applicant. I'm trying to get an idea of where she should be applying. I'm familiar with the reach/match/safety idea but no one is really telling us the particulars. Of course, if you are not comfortable giving up the info, this thread might not be for you lol

DD is in the top 5% of a very rigorous charter school (unfortunately they don't rank but she's been told by a reliable source that she is #2, again another thread ), has a weighted 4.3 GPA, and takes the equivalent of 3 AP and 3 IB courses. She has yet to receive anything less than an A- in any class ever. Her SATS aren't great, they are around 2000 but she'll take them again and she'll take the ACT as well. So, schools she is looking at (this is a very shortened list) including Amhert, Vassar, Tufts, Wellesley, Barnard (reach schools), Mt. Holyoke, Skidmore, Smith, UMass, Bucknell (match schools we think?), Simmons, Susquehanna and I can't remember the others (safety).

Anyone have experience with these admission offices and feel like sharing?

Of the reach schools, the only one that I'd think is likely a true stretch is Amherst. Wellesley, Vassar and Barnard and Tufts are toss-ups for admission, in my opinion, with her scores and background, so if she applies to all four I'd bet she'll get one.

Is she interested in single-sex education? The applicant pools for those schools tend to be somewhat self-selecting and so they tend to have somewhat higher admit rates than comparable coed schools of their caliber. Wellesley is a fantastic school with one of the most powerful alumnae networks in the world.

Does the community matter? In that case, Wellesley, Barnard and Tufts have the upper hand if she wants easy access to a large city (Wellesley offers the perfect blend of suburban campus with urban access, in my opinion) whereas Vassar is in a kind of dumpy minor urban area and Amherst in in a very small, but very erudite, town.

One important, and often underappreciated, thing that the more selective colleges use as a barometer is the applicant's perceived passion for the school. They will track every touch your daughter makes with the school, from initial inquiry through tours through campus days through application. They don't want to waste their time accepting students who are just applying to a slate of colleges but likely won't attend. So have your daughter start engaging the admissions offices at her top choices now and have her (note, it should be her) make contact with the admissions office and start showing that passion.

Also, what does she want to study? That matters, as each of those schools has distinct strengths and areas where they are weaker, so that is something to consider.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Of the reach schools, the only one that I'd think is likely a true stretch is Amherst. Wellesley, Vassar and Barnard and Tufts are toss-ups for admission, in my opinion, with her scores and background, so if she applies to all four I'd bet she'll get one.

Is she interested in single-sex education? The applicant pools for those schools tend to be somewhat self-selecting and so they tend to have somewhat higher admit rates than comparable coed schools of their caliber. Wellesley is a fantastic school with one of the most powerful alumnae networks in the world.

Does the community matter? In that case, Wellesley, Barnard and Tufts have the upper hand if she wants easy access to a large city (Wellesley offers the perfect blend of suburban campus with urban access, in my opinion) whereas Vassar is in a kind of dumpy minor urban area and Amherst in in a very small, but very erudite, town.

One important, and often underappreciated, thing that the more selective colleges use as a barometer is the applicant's perceived passion for the school. They will track every touch your daughter makes with the school, from initial inquiry through tours through campus days through application. They don't want to waste their time accepting students who are just applying to a slate of colleges but likely won't attend. So have your daughter start engaging the admissions offices at her top choices now and have her (note, it should be her) make contact with the admissions office and start showing that passion.

Also, what does she want to study? That matters, as each of those schools has distinct strengths and areas where they are weaker, so that is something to consider.

I know nothing of these schools, but I believe APD makes a couple really good points here. I don't think the shotgun approach is going to do you any favors. Need to pick a target school or two and really focus. Also, the choice of major should dictate that choice(s).

 

[PatsGirl]

Thanks I also believe that Amherst is a true reach, as well as Tufts. She really likes the Western Mass schools/Amherst area but is reluctant to go to all-womens school so Smith and Mt. Holyoke are becoming more "safety" than match schools.

Its good to know that they keep track of communication(s). In a quest to be admitted to her first choice (Trinity in CT) she toured, did an information session and was on a list to interview when I squelched the school for safety reasons. In hindsight I wished I had researched the school more before she fell in love with it

Once she completes the upcoming tours on her list by mid-September, she'll tighten up her list and start interviewing, etc. She has toured 14 schools, is doing six more in the next two weeks, four in upstate New York in August, and we are unsure whether to take the trip to PA to visit four schools there or apply to two of them and see what happens. That's a long way to go unless one or two hit in the top 5-8 choices.

She would like to double major in Neuroscience/Psychobiology and Hispanic Studies. At the moment (and I know this can change because I haven't decided what I want to do with my life yet at 53 lol) she wants to work for the FBI in some type of profiling/psych or enforcement position. She is also considering pre-law. Wow, I get tired just typing those aspirations.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Thanks I also believe that Amherst is a true reach, as well as Tufts. She really likes the Western Mass schools/Amherst area but is reluctant to go to all-womens school so Smith and Mt. Holyoke are becoming more "safety" than match schools.

Its good to know that they keep track of communication(s). In a quest to be admitted to her first choice (Trinity in CT) she toured, did an information session and was on a list to interview when I squelched the school for safety reasons. In hindsight I wished I had researched the school more before she fell in love with it

Once she completes the upcoming tours on her list by mid-September, she'll tighten up her list and start interviewing, etc. She has toured 14 schools, is doing six more in the next two weeks, four in upstate New York in August, and we are unsure whether to take the trip to PA to visit four schools there or apply to two of them and see what happens. That's a long way to go unless one or two hit in the top 5-8 choices.

She would like to double major in Neuroscience/Psychobiology and Hispanic Studies. At the moment (and I know this can change because I haven't decided what I want to do with my life yet at 53 lol) she wants to work for the FBI in some type of profiling/psych or enforcement position. She is also considering pre-law. Wow, I get tired just typing those aspirations.

If she wants a Western Mass. feeling and a smaller liberal arts college, has she looked at Bennington? I know it's in Vermont, but has the same feeling. UMass Amherst has really come on strong in the past decade, so she should give that a serious look, as well, if she wants a larger University feel.

If she's unsure about an all-women's school, I'd definitely steer away from Smith and Mount Holyoke as they are pretty isolated, in my opinion. Wellesley has close partnerships (class exchanges as well as social ties) with MIT, Harvard and Babson College, so it feels a little less segregated, but it also probably has the strongest individual identity of the remaining Seven Sisters, so it's a good blend.

ETA, if she liked Trinity, has she looked at Providence College or Fairfield University? Boston College is also similar in cosmetic feel, but based on your comments similar to Tufts in terms of a possible stretch choice.

 

[clori]

My nephew just graduated high school. He went to a suburban high school with about 150 kids in his grade. I don't recall exact SAT scores but all 3 parts were in the 700 range I think 790 math and the other two maybe 740 and 760. He took I think 2 SAT II and got 800 on both. He didn't take the ACT. He was #2 in his class. He took some AP classes like US History, English Comp, English Lit, AP psych, AP Calculus AP and probably some science AP. Otherwise he took all honors classes. His weighted GPA was close to a 5.0

For extras he did yearbook, Model UN, tutored at the local boys/girls club and in school math, chess club and National Honor Society. He did well at National History Day and went to regionals and maybe state one year. He never mentioned any official leadership roles. I know he never played a sport outside of mandatory gym class. He never took any classes such as fine arts or band. He never held a part time job.

He is from New England and only applied to colleges in the Northeast mostly New England. I know he did a summer program at RPI in Troy NY and had some kind of medal (summer between junior and senior year). I don't know all the colleges he applied to. He got rejected by Yale and Tufts. He got waitlisted to Harvard. He got accepted to MIT, Brown, WPI, Amherst, RPI. He applied and got accepted into at least 5 other colleges.

My sis in law says every single college tour she went on stressed the well rounded college student. They all said they were not interested in the student who only got perfect SATs, all As etc but otherwise had nothing else. He picked Brown. I don't know his major but definitely in the computer field.

 

[laughinplace199]

Of the reach schools, the only one that I'd think is likely a true stretch is Amherst. Wellesley, Vassar and Barnard and Tufts are toss-ups for admission, in my opinion, with her scores and background, so if she applies to all four I'd bet she'll get one.

Is she interested in single-sex education? The applicant pools for those schools tend to be somewhat self-selecting and so they tend to have somewhat higher admit rates than comparable coed schools of their caliber. Wellesley is a fantastic school with one of the most powerful alumnae networks in the world.

Does the community matter? In that case, Wellesley, Barnard and Tufts have the upper hand if she wants easy access to a large city (Wellesley offers the perfect blend of suburban campus with urban access, in my opinion) whereas Vassar is in a kind of dumpy minor urban area and Amherst in in a very small, but very erudite, town.

One important, and often underappreciated, thing that the more selective colleges use as a barometer is the applicant's perceived passion for the school. They will track every touch your daughter makes with the school, from initial inquiry through tours through campus days through application. They don't want to waste their time accepting students who are just applying to a slate of colleges but likely won't attend. So have your daughter start engaging the admissions offices at her top choices now and have her (note, it should be her) make contact with the admissions office and start showing that passion.
Also, what does she want to study? That matters, as each of those schools has distinct strengths and areas where they are weaker, so that is something to consider.

A Princess' Daddy makes some great points. I think the above bolded is something that is often overlooked, yet can be extremely helpful (and something that I will pass on to DD15 when she begins her college search).

A Princess' Daddy, do you live in Massachusetts? You seem to know the schools around here very well.

 

[PatsGirl]

Clori: Wow, hard to believe he didn't get into Tufts which accepts more than anyone else on his list. Those SAT scores are incredible We toured Brown but took an immediate dislike to our guide lol and it went downhill from there. I know several people who had kids go there and they all loved it so I'm sure he will as well.

APD: Providence College is her #1 safety school, she didn't love it, but they do not require a non-custodial profile so its a safety for financial reasons. UMass Amherst is her other safety, again for financial reasons. She hopes to be accepted into their honors program if she applies. I like that she can matriculate there but take classes at Amherst and Smith.

Unfortunately Fairfield doesn't offer the majors she wants. I don't think Bennington has hit her radar yet, I'll mention it to her.

My first picks on paper, although I try my hardest not to steer her one way or the other lol, are Wellesley, Bucknell, Providence College, and Skidmore, each for different reasons. I think she's got a very good chance of getting into all of them. I also think Vassar might be a good fit. Time will tell.

 

[NotUrsula]

If she is going after small LAC's, has she considered Sarah Lawrence? Word is that they are under-enrolled this year, so they are going to be generous with grants as well.

My DS would rather be shot than attend an LAC in a cold climate (which is good because he doesn't have the grades for those kinds of places anyway), so I can't give you any personal experience with their applications processes. However, when you are in this cohort one hears things, and I hear that Williams is on everyone's list in that market; though I understand that it is a bit quirky; they use the Oxbridge "tutorial" class model.

Honestly, if you want firshand reports re: schools in that market, the best source is probably going to be HelicopterCentral, (i.e., CollegeConfidential). The tone of the place can be wacky as all hell, but folks who want old-name LAC's do tend to congregate there.

 

[LBIJim]

If she is going after small LAC's, has she considered Sarah Lawrence? Word is that they are under-enrolled this year, so they are going to be generous with grants as well.

My DS would rather be shot than attend an LAC in a cold climate (which is good because he doesn't have the grades for those kinds of places anyway), so I can't give you any personal experience with their applications processes. However, when you are in this cohort one hears things, and I hear that Williams is on everyone's list in that market; though I understand that it is a bit quirky; they use the Oxbridge "tutorial" class model.

Honestly, if you want firshand reports re: schools in that market, the best source is probably going to be HelicopterCentral, (i.e., CollegeConfidential). The tone of the place can be wacky as all hell, but folks who want old-name LAC's do tend to congregate there.

Yes, while reading this thread Sarah Lawrence came to mind. It might be a good fit for your daughter. Not in MA, but not far from Vassar which she's considering. Close to NYC, but in a suburban location. Not as prestigious as Smith or Wellesley, and it does have sort of an oddball reputation, but it's a solid school where women can excell.

 

[taitai]

IF she likes Western Mass then I would definitely NOT rule out Smith or Mt.Holyoke. Both are part of the 5 college exchange which allows students to take classes at any of the 5 schools....Amherst, Smith, Mt.Holyoke, Hampshire and UMass. Northampton is also a very fun town. Much more vibrant than Amherst.

 

[mirage0306]

I went to Vassar--granted, it was 20 years ago, but the standards are pretty similar still. I am not sure that's a true reach for your daughter, as Amherst would be. My GPA wasn't as high as your daughter's, but I took advanced/AP classes almost as much as I could. I was involved in several activities--extremely involved in the advanced chorus and I was really well rounded (sports, newspaper editor, involved in various clubs, did volunteer work). My SATs were pretty good. I don't think Vassar uses the SATs as the most important factor, though.

IIRC, they really value the part of the application called something like "my space"--it's a chance for the applicant to be creative and show the Admissions office something that might not otherwise be revealed in their application.

Please feel free to PM me if you have questions about the school or if your daughter wants to ask anything! I think she has a really good shot there.

ETA--I absolutely LOVED it there.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

A Princess' Daddy makes some great points. I think the above bolded is something that is often overlooked, yet can be extremely helpful (and something that I will pass on to DD15 when she begins her college search).

A Princess' Daddy, do you live in Massachusetts? You seem to know the schools around here very well.

My DW and I are originally from the area (she's from New York and I'm from New England) and we both went to college in the Boston area (my wife went to one of the schools on OP's list and I went to another school in the area) and are basically college/university junkies. The way some people follow sports teams or tour baseball stadiums, we do that with colleges and universities around the country, but we especially love the schools back east. One of my best friends from college now works in the admissions office of our alma mater and shares with me lots of feedback on how complicated and competitive the admissions business has become, even since we attended, and I find is fascinating. Alas, at the present time we are not living in the area, but plan to move back at some point in the next few years, likely when or before my daughter gets to high school age.

 

[laughinplace199]

My DW and I are originally from the area (she's from New York and I'm from New England) and we both went to college in the Boston area (my wife went to one of the schools on OP's list and I went to another school in the area) and are basically college/university junkies. The way some people follow sports teams or tour baseball stadiums, we do that with colleges and universities around the country, but we especially love the schools back east. One of my best friends from college now works in the admissions office of our alma mater and shares with me lots of feedback on how complicated and competitive the admissions business has become, even since we attended, and I find is fascinating. Alas, at the present time we are not living in the area, but plan to move back at some point in the next few years, likely when or before my daughter gets to high school age.

Being a college/university "junkie" sounds like an interesting hobby, and your kids will be so well prepared when they begin their college searches.

I hope you're still on the Dis Boards in the next year or two. I have a DD entering her sophomore year in high school, so we're not far off from the search and I'd love to pick your brain!

 

[NotUrsula]

Another thought... if she can see past New England, she could probably do better on aid in another part of the country where a New England girl is a valuable bit of diversity.

Have you looked at Davidson, in North Carolina? A friend of mine's father was on the faculty there, and they are VERY committed to keeping students out of debt. They are also currently #9 on the USNews LAC survey. It's a truly beautiful campus, and students are treated VERY well by the university, which has scads of money. (Davidson is the school that very famously provided free laundry service until last year. Self-service laundry facilities are still free.)

 

[TinkerBelled]

I think her list looks like a good one. I agree that getting her test scores up by 100 points would be helpful. I'm guessing she's already studied for the SATs, but it might be worth switching up the test book.

Keep in mind that the admittance rates at some of the reach schools are really low. Amherst is harder to get into than Cornell. (Actually, Cornell might be worth a look for another reach. Very different than most of the schools on the list, but a solid program, beautiful, and relatively close.)

Can I ask why Trinity got nixed? Is it that you don't like Hartford? Or did you find the campus particularly unsafe?

If she's interested in Skidmore, she might look at Colgate as well. And has she thought about any of the Maine schools? Bates and Bowdoin are both very good (with Bowdoin being more of a reach than Bates). I also didn't see Bennington on the list, which would be less of a reach.

Part of what makes her stand out to schools like this is that she has worked for the past three years. Frankly, many kids who get into these schools haven't worked, at least not for pay; this is especially true if any of the jobs aren't strictly academic-related (working at a diner makes you stand out more than working as a tutor). Playing that up rather than playing that down is a good call.

Some of those schools don't even require test scores. In fact, if she's feeling shaky about her test scores, she should consider schools where SATs are optional: http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional. A lot of these are top SLACs, and many of them are already on her list.

Finally, for most of these schools, the essay is going to be super important. She should focus on things that make her stand out while trying to be authentically herself. An admissions counselor can spot someone trying-too-hard at a hundred paces. Speaking honestly and compellingly about what makes her great will make her shine in their eyes.