Non monetary ways the economy is affecting you?

[bicker]

I notice that there are fewer employees at stores. Our walmart used to have lots of cashiers. Now, even on weekends, they have limited checkouts and the lines are extremely long. It drives me crazy because it used to be easier to pay and get out of there.

Similar to what I mentioned earlier, vis a vis consumers learning to economize and do with less, and not needlessly spending more just because the economy is improving, I think we can expect the same to be true of businesses: Retailers have discovered that they can do with fewer employees, and so I think we're going to see few folks working in each store, going forward, regardless of the economy, at least for a while.

 

[kydisneyfans]

Our area never got as bad as the rest of the country, but things have REALLY improved the past 2 months.

I work at a sales job very dependent on travel and the year to year numbers had been flat to slightly down year to year, the numbers turned in mid Feb and are now showing double digit increases. Hotel occupancy is back to 2008 levels, and is actually up for the month of May to the highest in 3 years.

I personally know of nobody unemployed at this point. Those that were unemployed were either called back to work or found another job. Today's paper had a 1/2 page of advertised jobs, not bad for a town of 20,000. This time last year it was next to 0.

What changes do I see? Keeneland racing had high attendance but betting was down. Parks are busy, McDonalds is booming, happy hours elsewhere are busy. Coupon use is higher, people are buying sale items instead of full price.

What this downturn in the economy has forced people to do is become smarter with the money they have, and in the long term that is not a bad thing.

 

[gina2000]

The job market as a whole is showing limited improvement. Temp jobs (census) and parttime jobs (people who can't find fulltime employment) showed a big jump. Long term unemployed increased as well as marginally attached workers and displaced workers. The jump in employment was largely in temporary services and health care. We're hardly out of the woods nor is the picture all that rosy.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

 

[tink_n_pooh]

A new store just opened not far from here so we went to check it out today. One would think a new store opening would be a good sign (I'm hoping it is), the store was packed and we picked out a few things to purchase. Bringing them up to the counter I was thinking the line was going to be crazy long, there were 10 registers (all of them) open and not a single person at any on of them, the cashiers were all standing there bored. Window shopping was pretty popular but purchasing anything not so much.

It's great that this new store opened because it is giving lots of previously unemployed jobs but they are mostly low paying, part-time jobs. When this store was hiring there were a few articles in our local paper on how many people applied (in the thousands) and how many, if not most of them were out of work professionals looking for any work they could get. A year ago most of these people would not have even considered applying for retail jobs

 

[CandyMandy]

the recession is not over here as well. people who are currently unemployed are still hard pressed to find any available jobs, and a neighbor along with most of his co-workers who work in contract jobs were let go yesterday (vs. at the end of june as their contracts originaly anticipated).

non monetary ways it's affecting us/i'm seeing-

in calling around to try to get bids on some landscaping, many places have cut back their staffing so much that they don't have the staffing to either do certain types of jobs or there's a much longer wait for bid/job to be done (flip side is where it used to be the norm for these types of buisnesses to charge for even a bid, all are doing bids for free now).

the private school ds goes to used to only offer a finanical incentive/break to brand new families (to entice new students), last month they sent home the registration paperwork for next school year and it offers a 25% reduction on the registration fee if done by a date early in may (they are trying to keep from losing more students and need to know if one teacher will be cut for next year).

i pick weekdays to shop at costco cuz traditionaly weekends are the busy times. no more-now it's busy everyday of the week. i see people buying less of the impulse purchases, more of what you know is used to make work/school lunches (lunch meats, bread, multi packs of fruit cups/pudding...).

the local pizza places are much less busy, while the take and bake places (esp. when they have a coupon deal) are packed (you hear people talking in line and most are opting to rent a video and do take and bake vs. going out to the movies and a meal).

if certain things go on sale at the grocery store they are more prone to fly off the shelves-rice a roni, top ramen, tortillas, ground beef. the stores are trending more at offering good "come on" deals on traditionaly inexpensive items.


a resort hotel in a nearby state traditionaly sells out their entire room invantory for the days surrounding the 4th of july up to a year in advance. if there are rooms they are top dollar and require multiple nights minimum stay. here we are at the begining of may, and this resort is doing a media blitz to even fill the rooms at their lowest rates, with as little as a 2 nite minimum stay for the upcoming july 4th.


btw-on casinos, we had one that had roof damage due to snow in 2009. although the owners had insurance that would cover it they crunched the numbers and their revenue was so decreased they opted to close it. the other casinos in the area have seen revenue drop such that they are offering big incentives to come in the door.

Bingo - but according to those in the home of the so-called "Kennedy seat," the economy is booming and everything is roses.

 

[Planogirl]

"April 02, 2010 - Nonfarm payroll employment increased by 162,000 in March..." [Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics.]

That helps indicate what I meant earlier about the difference between how people feel things are and how they really are.

If this trend continues and the Census shutting down later doesn't have a bad effect on numbers then I'll agree. (Also, I hope to see Underemployed numbers improve too.) One month (or even two) of improvement doesn't indicate a trend to me but I hope that you're right.

 

[Tiana]

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[Jolly Ole Bert]

I do agree with many of the pp's who claim there are signs (small, but still signs nonetheless) of improvement. The job numbers are going to look a tad better for a brief period, but do not expect this to last. There are thousands upon thousands of college grads about to hit the job hunt in less than 2 weeks.

To answer the OP's question. Pretty much all I've noticed are cutbacks. Longer waits to check-in to hotels due to the property only having two desk-clerks/reservationists rather than five like before. The same issue with retail cashiers. Fewer crowds at the malls, etc.

 

[bicker]

Bingo - but according to those in the home of the so-called "Kennedy seat," the economy is booming and everything is roses.

It isn't "according to" anything other than objective data, friend. I guess I can understand some people wanting to feel like things are still bad... there is some solace in that, I suppose. But that's not the reality, and ignoring the reality doesn't help anyone.

If this trend continues and the Census shutting down later doesn't have a bad effect on numbers then I'll agree. (Also, I hope to see Underemployed numbers improve too.) One month (or even two) of improvement doesn't indicate a trend to me but I hope that you're right.

Some (though not all) of the indicators have been trending in the positive direction since June 2009.

I do agree with many of the pp's who claim there are signs (small, but still signs nonetheless) of improvement. The job numbers are going to look a tad better for a brief period, but do not expect this to last.

Because pessimism and fatalism serve what purpose, in the light of objective evidence?

There are thousands upon thousands of college grads about to hit the job hunt in less than 2 weeks.

That happens every year. It is part of the normal economic cycle.

 

[SereneOne]

Wanting to believe things are bad?

Are you kidding me?

Tell that to my friend and her husband, they both lost their jobs, lost their home and she has miscarried.

Tell that to my family, our income has dipped down almost 20,000 a year, we lost some benefits and guess what? It has not gone up yet.


I could go on and on, I don't care what some number cruncher has to say in his or her ivory tower, I believe in what I know and see still happening all over the country. Does that mean I am not optimistic for the future? Yes I am, but let us not insult people by saying that they want to believe things are bad.

Do you really think that if you repeat it enough it will refute the actuality of what many people are living, it will make you right?

Go ahead and spout more "facts", I feel it is a security blanket with you. Facts quite often change. Housing may suffer another dip with all the people upsidedown on their mortgages, more people losing homes and the loss of incentives to buy.

We have a LONG way to go!

 

[bicker]

Wanting to believe things are bad?

Yes... people take solace in their own difficulties from believing that things are bad overall.

Tell that to my friend and her husband, they both lost their jobs, lost their home and she has miscarried.

She miscarried because of the recession? Of course not, but that's indicative of the toxic thought process that is not uncommon. People want to have something or someone to blame. "Stuff happens" is a very bitter pill to swallow.

I could go on and on

So could I, but the difference is that I'm outlining objective facts, while you're expressing emotion. Both are legitimate; both have their role; but they are fundamentally different from each other.

I don't care what some number cruncher has to say in his or her ivory tower, I believe in what I know and see still happening all over the country.

That's really the problem: The specific anecdotes are all you "know" -- the association of those things into reflections of a bad economy is not something you "know". It is something you "want to" know, as I alluded to earlier, perhaps for the reasons I alluded to earlier.

And I said that it was a problem, because the more people who allow their need to have something to blame for "stuff" that "happens", the longer the recovery will take, and that will make things worse for your family, and that of your unfortunate friend and her husband.

Does that mean I am not optimistic for the future?

Sure looks that way to me.

Yes I am, but let us not insult people by saying that they want to believe things are bad.

It isn't an insult. It's an observation of typical human behavior. Are you claiming that being considered a normal person to be an insult?

Do you really think that if you repeat it enough it will refute the actuality of what many people are living, it will make you right?

Do you really thing that if you blame enough external factors that the bad circumstances you find yourself in will go away? That's really an important aspect of this: Beyond the economic indicators, that I mentioned earlier, there are other indicators, including consumer confidence. That isn't a measurement of actual economic activity -- it's not based on objective factors -- but rather could be considered, in some way, a gauge of how much (or how little) consumers are willing or able to acknowledge the reality of the actual economic activity. When consumers think that things are worse than they are, that stifles (and perhaps could reverse) the gains that have been/can be made.

Go ahead and spout more "facts", I feel it is a security blanket with you.

And facts are bad things, from your standpoint? That's disappointing.

Facts quite often change.

Yes, indeed, they can. As a matter of fact, pessimism such as that you've outlined could be the proximate cause of those facts changing.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

We have restaurants and stores closing that have been in business for ages. There are articles in the newspaper that talk about which business owes X amount of dollars....etc.

 

[eliza61]

Actually I am one of the few who see a lot of positives out of this recession. First, let me say, I cry for all those who are experiencing job hardships and financial struggles. Don't let my statement of "positive" lead you to believe otherwise.

#1 As a nation we are returning to our "savings" mentality. Let's face it, pretty much since the 70's and 80's we've became this nation of spend, spend, spend. Even when we could not afford it.

#2 I live in South Jersey and the local economy is rebounding as families are finding more ways to "staycation". A report just htis last weekend said the Jersey shore has seen an increase of ~9% over last year because people are enjoying the local offerings.

#3 Job wise things are picking up in the South Jersey area. Both my teens have found permanent jobs as opposed to just summer jobs and construction has picked back up so 2 of my neighbors who were laid off when the housing market collapsed are back to work.

 

[bicker]

Actually I am one of the few who see a lot of positives out of this recession. First, let me say, I cry for all those who are experiencing job hardships and financial struggles. Don't let my statement of "positive" lead you to believe otherwise.

Ditto. The point isn't to marginalize the suffering folks are feeling, but rather to highlight the reality of the situation, which can help those open to it to have more optimism for the future, and hopefully undercut the stifling impact on the economy, going forward, from folks interpreting their own situation as indicative of the broader reality.

#1 As a nation we are returning to our "savings" mentality. Let's face it, pretty much since the 70's and 80's we've became this nation of spend, spend, spend. Even when we could not afford it.

Very good point, and this has assuredly been reflected in a structural downward shift in the demand for labor. Essentially, the more people save, the less money there is spent on certain items and services, and less money there is to pay people to make/do those things. As a structural change, it is the new "normal".

 

[Planogirl]

To some extent, facts are in the eyes of the beholder and facts can also be adapted to suit an agenda. It is quite possible and even feasible that things are improving but I think that I am looking at it from a different perspective.

I compare this to a sick individual. The fever might have decreased and the symptoms may be improved but the person is still ill and even setbacks are possible. An improving condition does not mean that the illness is completely over yet. I don't look at that as a desire to see everything as bad to make myself feel better in some way.

Also, what's been going on since 2009 is not my focus in this thread. Unemployment and only unemployment is. Unemployment tends to lag behind other indicators but until it shows sustained growth I'm personally not comfortable.

 

[cabanafrau]

Without knowing where you're talking about, it is hard to look up the data, so it is hard to know. As I indicated, the information I provided was nationwide data. And indeed, I do know that there are some areas (I believe earlier I mentioned MI and MS) that are still in recession.

Yes, in Michigan it feels like we now live in an entirely different country when we watch some of the reports on national economic news -- and we're employed. DH is in the same boat as Mystery Machine's DH. I fear he's being worked to death as if he's literally a piece of equipment. It's always kind of gone with the territory in the IT field. With the mergers his employer has gone through in the last decade and the state of the economy, the demands have become beyond extreme.

 

[bicker]

Planogirl: Interesting perspective, but don't overlook the aspect I outlined above, i.e., that an return to the saving rate of many years ago will invariably cause a change in what is a "normal" (reasonable to expect) level of employment, itself.

It's a bit like as a pre-teen, you couldn't drive, and had to either get someone to drive you around, which wasn't always reliable, or use your own feet or bicycle, which were more time-consuming. As an adult, you have the luxury of more freedom of movement, of course, but figure that there is a fundamental shift in reality that radically changes, on a structural level, how much gasoline costs, so much so that you now have some considerations similar to those that you had as a child. That's the new "normal". In that scenario, expecting, or waiting, or otherwise hinging anything on things going back to the way they were is destructive.

Cabanafrau: No question that Michigan is indeed still in recession. Hopefully the turnaround that most of the rest of us have already seen will reach your state soon.

 

[englishteacha]

I think everyone around me is stressed. Many people who are employed are "underemployed," and not making enough to really support their family the way they would like to.

I also see a lot more people asking for help. I'm bombarded with people asking for my youth group to do stuff for them: "Can the youth group come rake?" "Can the youth group come help with thus-and-so?" When we agree, they get irritable that we can't do whatever they want us to do RIGHT NOW. (for instance, on Wednesday, an elderly lady asked if we could come help with her yard. My husband said, sure, we'll talk to the kids and set up a time. Sunday she was all upset that we hadn't come to do it yet!)

The kids are just as busy as they ever were, and those who have jobs are working whatever hours they can. I hate to tell people no, but there just isn't enough time or labor to do everything people want us to do. We only have 5 kids in our group who are regularly involved. There's no way they can be at every event, plus actually do fun stuff, which is one of the main purposes of youth groups! It's like people look at the teens and see "free labor."

 

[Planogirl]

True that the new emphasis on savings might change the overall dynamic. That is if the trend towards savings isn't similar to new diets. People have the best of intentions but will they follow through?

If they do what will become of the unemployed? Will the market shift to somehow accomodate the workforce? Interesting questions.

 

[Quiksilvr]

Our casino's are in the hole big time. They just opened up a new one in St. Louis a couple of months ago. There are already 4 in the area and the new one is killing the others. They were already down in revenue.

Ours partly relies on vacationers and well since that is down the casinos suffer.

I think this is the more common scenario. The big Vegas companies (MGM Grand, Wynn, Harrah's, LV Sands) were all doing quite poorly over the last year and a half. Gambling revenues were down significantly. I think the casino companies that have larger international presences did okay, but Vegas revenue was down a lot. I know MGM and Wynn stock was pretty volatile over the last couple of years. I think the Vegas companies had a good 1Q2010, so perhaps things are turning around in the industry.