Non-monetary reality check for purchasers.

twinsouvenirs

Mother of Dragons :)
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We just got back from our 'trial visit' to SSR & BWV. It was a blast. Best family vacation (only so far) that we've taken and it was a great getaway.

BEFORE you jump in, please keep in mind a point that is, in my opinion, understressed in the wash of financial debate here.

IT IS DIFFERENT FROM BUYING INTO THE HOTELS. You are actually buying into a condo. A condo that is, depending on the age of the resort, 20 yrs + old.

It is definitely a 'condo' type experience. My family regularly rents condos. I am not fazed by a sink backup, a laundry machine backup, etc. I stayed in a hotel treehouse in Nicaragua without electricity and running water on my honeymoon and had a blast (my new husband got a little testy...) so we've seen them all. But on some level, since it is Disney, you expect even a condo to feel 'perfect' and surreal. I'm hear to tell you that they are just condos. With amazing pools.

We stayed in a one bedroom at SSR and one at BWK. They were lovely, spacious, fun, easy layouts. They were definitely NOT new. A few cupboards/drawers hung funny, the molding in the halls was crumbly by the base, the appliances in SSR were old. Our laundry machine backed up and soaked about 50% of the carpet in the whole unit one night at about 10pm, but our babies were asleep so we called engineering, told them to be quiet, and put on our flipflops. The night of arrival at BWV our sink was leaking so they wanted to get in to plumb. They said it could wait, and once again, the babies were asleep so we told them to come back in the am.

Despite not being a hotel, we were constantly visited by mousekeepers, maintenance, engineering, etc. It was comic--at one point we had four separate people in a row knock at the door (apparently someone with a similar unit number had been requesting a bunch of things, and they thought we were checking out several days when we were not).

That said, the service is great. We were given our choice between cribs and pack n plays, given sheets, and when the laundry machine flooded they gave us a gazillion towels for the floor and the engineer was there nearly immediately. They offered us a new unit but our babies had fallen asleep for the night so there was no way we were moving.

HOWEVER, the engineers left muddy footprints all over our kitchen, as well as taking the trash cans out from under the sink and leaving them out in the kitchen (with kids, not a great idea). When I called to ask if they were still in the middle of the job or had finished, they offered to send mousekeeping... in my opinion, the engineer probably should have had them swing by after he/she finished since he/she clearly was not cleaning up after his/herself. I told them not to bother and cleaned it with a towel. We had plenty of towels since it was just two adults but if we had been staying longer, using one of the towels to clean up the floor after the plumber would have rankled a bit.

The housekeepers came by at 8am on checkout day to clean. She had us put the privacy placard on the door while we finished getting ready (we were out by 8:45 am). On on hand, annoying. On the other hand, both of our rooms were ready when we arrived around noon/1pm so their quick service also allowed us to check in early so on balance we'll take it!

There was no white glove treatment outside of the lobby--but everyone was very nice.

We had a blast, we're bought in, etc... and SSR is an older building, and so is BWK, but we just wanted to ensure people know they are getting condos, and in many cases older condos. NOT hotel rooms. My husband likened the repairs to 'bandaids'.

Just wanted potential purchasers to understand that you are really really not buying into a perpetual hotel. You are buying an interest in a condo building with no control over any given unit, and if you are expecting pixie dust and perfect order you should revise your expectations accordingly. I am not sure about other timeshares in the area, so DVC still may be a cut above, but these are the kind of issues that can sink a vacation for people that are expecting a first-rate hotel.
 
Excellent points all around!

We're taking our "trial run" (BWV) with rented DVC points this month prior to committing to buy. Seems like the best way to contrast the difference between stays in the hotels (from value to deluxe - we've hit most of the resorts) with a DVC stay, and then making the value judgement on the capital outlay required to buy DVC.
 
Sooo smart. In retrospect, I think it would have been a harder decision had we waited until after our trip. That said we bought the literally new GFV so the true test will be our February trip to our new home resort.

Also, as for all the common areas--stellar. The kids programming will blow you away. There is so much to do you could seriously go without visiting the parks even once--free movies under the stars, campfires, etc. The pools are in great shape and so much fun. We loved the sprawling SSR and the entertainment of BWK and Downtown Disney. So your maintenance fees definitely go towards creating a full resort and I suppose I'd rather they used the money for things I'll enjoy during my waking hours.

One other comment: The mattresses were not impressive.
 
We just got back from our 'trial visit' to SSR & BWV. It was a blast. Best family vacation (only so far) that we've taken and it was a great getaway.

BEFORE you jump in, please keep in mind a point that is, in my opinion, understressed in the wash of financial debate here.

IT IS DIFFERENT FROM BUYING INTO THE HOTELS. You are actually buying into a condo. A condo that is, depending on the age of the resort, 20 yrs + old.


Just wanted potential purchasers to understand that you are really really not buying into a perpetual hotel. You are buying an interest in a condo building with no control over any given unit, and if you are expecting pixie dust and perfect order you should revise your expectations accordingly. I am not sure about other timeshares in the area, so DVC still may be a cut above, but these are the kind of issues that can sink a vacation for people that are expecting a first-rate hotel.

Sorry you encountered problems but glad that you had a good time despite them.

You make some very good points and it's good that you bring them up for potential buyers. We bought BLT when it was new and still found some problems. ;) As for DVC vs off-site condos, it's all about the location and being "inside the bubble".

Thanks for your post!
 

You'll always find problems with a brand new location. They never catch everything on a punch list. We stayed at BCV a few months after it opened and found our patio door would not lock. Don't know if anyone else had the problem in this unit, but Engineering came right away and fixed it for us.
 
And sometimes it's simply the luck of the draw. We just got back last night from an extended weekend at an OKW studio, the oldest DVC resort. (Turtle Pond, 2nd floor, with a "tennis court" view) I have to say that the condition of the room was very clean and that there were no maintenance issues.
 
And sometimes it's simply the luck of the draw. We just got back last night from an extended weekend at an OKW studio, the oldest DVC resort. (Turtle Pond, 2nd floor, with a "tennis court" view) I have to say that the condition of the room was very clean and that there were no maintenance issues.

I think you are absolutely right. The only reason I even felt the need to post this was because we had issues with both units--and although they did not cause us to lose a wink of sleep--and I am used to staying in the deluxes/Swan/Dolphin which I believe are a bit more 'white gloved'... So even though it is luck of the draw, it is probably safe to say that you may encounter issues in your room due to age of the room or appliances.

That said we will totally take the space & kitchen trade--and the existence of the appliances in the first place. With two babies, we need the space, the ability to wash clothes and prep bottles far more than we need turndown service :)
 
IMO these types of issues occur too frequently and being a "timeshare" is a easy excuse. We have found out that the more we stay, the more problems we see.

After years of reporting issues to Disney it has become apparent that they just don't care. They don't have any incentive to care when it comes to DVC owners. Sales are breaking records and prices are at record highs. Once a contract is sold, Disney has owners for the life of the contract with no incentive to improve.

Yes they will give out free meals or room credits when things go wrong but I'm sure that the money comes from our dues, not Disney's profits. Again, no incentive to do better.

We love WDW and still enjoy our vacations there but it's pretty sad that when we check into the resort, we expect room problems. :sad2:

:earsboy: Bill
 
IMO these types of issues occur too frequently and being a "timeshare" is a easy excuse. We have found out that the more we stay, the more problems we see.

After years of reporting issues to Disney it has become apparent that they just don't care. They don't have any incentive to care when it comes to DVC owners. Sales are breaking records and prices are at record highs. Once a contract is sold, Disney has owners for the life of the contract with no incentive to improve.

Yes they will give out free meals or room credits when things go wrong but I'm sure that the money comes from our dues, not Disney's profits. Again, no incentive to do better.

We love WDW and still enjoy our vacations there but it's pretty sad that when we check into the resort, we expect room problems. :sad2:

:earsboy: Bill

Bill, don't you remember Jim Lewis telling all of us DVC members in the Disney Files that we should become the eyes and ears and report the problems (so they don't have to use staff to do that - implied)?
 
Thanks for the post. I am glad that even with the hiccups you encountered that you had a great vacation. We understood going in that as a timeshare things might not always be perfect. The rooms get a ton of constant use. As long as issues get addressed in a timely fashion we are good with it. Stuff happens.

That being said, we bought in with a mathematics mindset. We accepted there is a confidence level of X that everything with the room will be great. X is less than 100%. While it would be possible (theoretically) to raise the confidence level to 99% of a perfect room each stay, the inherent cost of raising the confidence level that high would not be worth it to us. Put another way, I am sure if we all paid 3 or 4 times the MF we pay now, that we could significantly increase the chance of a perfect room each stay. We are comfortable where things are at the current level. Besides, perfection is highly over-rated :-)
 
To the OP, I agree with most of what you are saying, and it sounds as if you really had bad luck, having gotten two "ringer" rooms on your most recent visit. I'm sorry that you didn't have better luck, but I personally believe that your experience is more so the exception rather than the rule. That being said, some of the DVC villas have weathered better than others, and some have more maintenance issues than others.

The one thing I will take argument with is your comment of how DVC room condition factors into the “financial debate” of purchasing DVC. If anyone buying into DVC is expecting Ritz Carlton level accommodations, then they have been misguided from the word go. And this even goes for the new VGF, which is probably a giant step closer, but still a little ways away from truly "world-class" accommodations.

Rather, when making the financial justification for DVC, one should make the direct comparison to other, existing deluxe WDW accommodations. In my opinion and also my past experience, the general condition of the villas that I have stayed in are very similar to what I would find in the main hotel of that same resort. For instance, the studio accommodations that I had this past May at VWL were fantastic - very clean and zero maintenance issues whatsoever. Some of my extended family was staying in the main lodge on a cash reservation at the same time, and we ventured to and from each other’s rooms on a number of occasions. As far as general condition was concerned, there wasn’t much if any discernible difference between the two rooms. This also goes for BLT / Contemporary - when comparing my 1BR in May to a room that I stayed in (main tower) a few years prior. I've never felt as if I was "stepping down" in accommodation level of DVC as compared to the main resorts themselves. From what I have heard about the VGF models, perhaps this will actually border the other end of the spectrum, whereas the villas will actually be a step up from the main GF rooms.

So to summarize my point, the financial benefit of DVC should really be focused only as compared to other deluxe Disney hotels. You are essentially getting the same or very comparable accommodations (room size, condition, etc), as well as the same location, amenities, pools, transportation, restaurants, etc. found at the parent resort (BLT/CR, VWL/WL, VGF/GF, etc.), and if your vacation habits warrant, DVC can definitely provide good value as compared to paying OOP for the main resort. DVC is not the Ritz Carlton, nor will it ever be. Perhaps some DVC Guides pitch DVC as being such, and if so, I would agree that those customers are being misled. And I think this is the gist of your point, which I totally agree with.
 
It's worth noting that DVC 1bd+ villas have more to maintain than a regular hotel room. More drawers. More closets. Appliances. Pull-out beds. More moving parts equals more maintenance issues.

If you assume that XX% of every moving part in the whole hotel complex are having problems at any one time, the a disproportionate number of those problems are going to be in the DVC units, even if they put the same effort into keeping on top of them on both sides of the hotel.

We all know from our own lives that dishwashers are an endless source of hassles. Stationary beds? Not so much. :)
 
Bill, don't you remember Jim Lewis telling all of us DVC members in the Disney Files that we should become the eyes and ears and report the problems (so they don't have to use staff to do that - implied)?

I report everything, good and bad. I have talked face to face with Lewis and Bilby about various topics and issues, and this year DVC finally got some software to track problems. I just don't understand how a company that can be so good at providing a great guest experience in the parks, do such a poor job cleaning and keeping rooms maintained. :confused:

:earsboy: Bill
 
So to summarize my point, the financial benefit of DVC should really be focused only as compared to other deluxe Disney hotels. You are essentially getting the same or very comparable accommodations (room size, condition, etc), as well as the same location, amenities, pools, transportation, restaurants, etc. found at the parent resort (BLT/CR, VWL/WL, VGF/GF, etc.), and if your vacation habits warrant, DVC can definitely provide good value as compared to paying OOP for the main resort. DVC is not the Ritz Carlton, nor will it ever be.

Agreed - we love being able to get a 1 bedroom because it has a king bed (very few of the main resort rooms have kings), a full kitchen, and a real shower with a separate tub.

Before we bought DVC, we paid cash to stay at various deluxe resorts, and although those were nice, I don't think we could do a non-DVC room with queen beds and no kitchens.

None of the disney resorts are the Four Seasons and realistically we know we are paying a premium for the location (for us either BCV or VGF) not the room. We even discussed staying at the Four Seasons (we love their resorts!) once it opens but we just like being close to the parks.
 
I always try and be careful to point out that you are NOT buying into a "Deluxe hotel" and that "if you stay in Deluxes, then DVC is for you" isn't necessarily true. A timeshare is fundamentally different.

In that I really disagree with Andrew - If I had bought into DVC thinking I was getting a Deluxe hotel - I'd be a very unhappy camper. I like daily housekeeping - but the math to buy in doesn't work if you add it. I like being able to cancel my trip and get a refund for everything but $100 seven days out. Or the night before and get everything but $200 back. I like what I think is far superior furnishings in the Deluxe rooms. I like the better views available at the main resorts for a fee - like WL or BC - rather than the "back end" locations that DVC is (which is one of the reasons we like BWV). I like having a more frequent refreshes of the rooms. These things aren't important to everyone, but its important to understand that they are there, and that its a trade. We like DVC because its the most appropriate way for us to have the kids sleep in a different room while we remain on property - so we are willing to take inferior furnishings, less frequent room refreshes, lack of daily housekeeping, less flexible (for us) cancellation policies.
 
In that I really disagree with Andrew - If I had bought into DVC thinking I was getting a Deluxe hotel - I'd be a very unhappy camper. I like daily housekeeping - but the math to buy in doesn't work if you add it. I like being able to cancel my trip and get a refund for everything but $100 seven days out. Or the night before and get everything but $200 back. I like what I think is far superior furnishings in the Deluxe rooms. I like the better views available at the main resorts for a fee - like WL or BC - rather than the "back end" locations that DVC is (which is one of the reasons we like BWV). I like having a more frequent refreshes of the rooms. These things aren't important to everyone, but its important to understand that they are there, and that its a trade. We like DVC because its the most appropriate way for us to have the kids sleep in a different room while we remain on property - so we are willing to take inferior furnishings, less frequent room refreshes, lack of daily housekeeping, less flexible (for us) cancellation policies.

Crisi - My comments above were really focused mainly on comparing general room condition of the DVC Villas as compared to that of the same Deluxe resort. As mentioned, in my experience, I don’t find there to be a drastic difference in general condition or room cleanliness as compared to the standard deluxe rooms found in the parent hotel. Perhaps my experiences have been better than normal, or my general tolerance for such things is higher than others. I suspect it’s the former, as I travel quite a bit for work and know a decent hotel room when I am lucky enough to get one.

When you start talking about things such as daily house-keeping, cancellation policies or room views, I think we are drifting a little off from the original topic but I will respond nonetheless. At some point, the buyer has to take some level of personal responsibility for doing their due diligence before making a $10K-$40K purchase such as DVC. Disney makes no attempt to hide any of these facets of DVC ownership, and if you as a buyer are unfortunate enough to buy in without being aware of these things, then unfortunately, I say shame on you for being an uniformed buyer (I’m not actually referring to you personally, as I suspect you knew these things – I am speaking in general). In my opinion, these aspects of DVC ownership are very different from things such as general room condition or room cleanliness, which we all expect to be at a respectable level, given that DVC is pitched as “deluxe accommodations” and the corresponding price tag that comes along with it.

Once again, my experience has been that both room condition and cleanliness have met or exceeded my expectations. I am yet to be disappointed in these areas, but I am also relatively new to DVC ownership. As a result of this thread, I will be paying close attention on my upcoming September trip to SSR to make sure I wasn’t blinded by “pixie dust” on my 10 day May trip. I don’t believe DVC is perfect by any means, and it certainly isn’t for everyone (I would go so far as to say it’s probably not for most). However, it has exceeded my expectations thus far, and has provided me with exceptional value after only a few short years of ownership. I plan to add on in the next few years, as I fall into the small percentage of Disney-crazy people that this timeshare system is really purpose-built for.
 
Most of the rooms you occupy as a DVC owner can be the same rooms people get when paying cash for a villa. The room you enter should be cleaned and have working plumbing and appliances. I have paid cash to stay in the villas numerous times before buying. Luckily I never experienced any room that was unacceptable or I never would have purchased.
 
Crisi - My comments above were really focused mainly on comparing general room condition of the DVC Villas as compared to that of the same Deluxe resort. As mentioned, in my experience, I don’t find there to be a drastic difference in general condition or room cleanliness as compared to the standard deluxe rooms found in the parent hotel. Perhaps my experiences have been better than normal, or my general tolerance for such things is higher than others. I suspect it’s the former, as I travel quite a bit for work and know a decent hotel room when I am lucky enough to get one.

When you start talking about things such as daily house-keeping, cancellation policies or room views, I think we are drifting a little off from the original topic but I will respond nonetheless. At some point, the buyer has to take some level of personal responsibility for doing their due diligence before making a $10K-$40K purchase such as DVC. Disney makes no attempt to hide any of these facets of DVC ownership, and if you as a buyer are unfortunate enough to buy in without being aware of these things, then unfortunately, I say shame on you for being an uniformed buyer (I’m not actually referring to you personally, as I suspect you knew these things – I am speaking in general). In my opinion, these aspects of DVC ownership are very different from things such as general room condition or room cleanliness, which we all expect to be at a respectable level, given that DVC is pitched as “deluxe accommodations” and the corresponding price tag that comes along with it.

Once again, my experience has been that both room condition and cleanliness have met or exceeded my expectations. I am yet to be disappointed in these areas, but I am also relatively new to DVC ownership. As a result of this thread, I will be paying close attention on my upcoming September trip to SSR to make sure I wasn’t blinded by “pixie dust” on my 10 day May trip. I don’t believe DVC is perfect by any means, and it certainly isn’t for everyone (I would go so far as to say it’s probably not for most). However, it has exceeded my expectations thus far, and has provided me with exceptional value after only a few short years of ownership. I plan to add on in the next few years, as I fall into the small percentage of Disney-crazy people that this timeshare system is really purpose-built for.

Yes, but they come HERE to do their due diligence and we say things like "compare it to a Deluxe hotel" and frequently don't mention room refresh or housekeeping when doing our calculations. Those are qualitative differences - their value may be subjective. But they are real differences and we shouldn't gloss them over. Comparing DVC and a Deluxe hotel isn't an apples to oranges comparison - but it is a granny smith to fuji comparison - and if you are expecting a red apple and get a granny smith, you'll be disappointed.

I've traveled all over the world too, and I'm not impressed with Disney hotels in general, but every Disney hotel I've stayed in has been better maintained than every DVC room I've stayed in - I'm not picky either - but in the hotels I don't have broken drawers, burnt out lightbulbs, and carpet stains.
 
Very good point made here and I hope prospective buyers have the opportunity to read this.

We have not had that many problems with a DVC room, and the occasional problem we have had was fixed promptly for us.

I've never felt like my expectations weren't met, but then I think my expectations are pretty reasonable for a time share.
 
As potential (revisiting post May 2014 rental) DVC buyers, this is actually a very interesting thread to read through. And Civil to boot :)

Thanks for the reflections folks.
 



















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