Non-Disney question..booking flights for a group.

[goofy4tink]

So, as some of you know, my dd is studying in the UK in the fall. There is a group of 11 going...all studying together. We just got the price for her flights, $1268 Boston to Heathrow. I've been watching airfares so was pretty sure this was high.
I priced it out with Virgin, British Airways and Delta. They are flying BA. I got fares of $960.
I called the person in charge of the bookings and she was pretty surprised. She gave me the exact flights they were looking at....I checked those flights and the price was $980! The poor woman couldn't imagine why the difference.
I thought that perhaps the agency they use charged a pp fee, and then maybe BA charges extra to seat the kids together.
So, have anybody you had any experience with group fares?
The woman at the school and the dean of the theatre dept are going to talk to the agency and see.....evidently no one has ever questioned the airfare.
I may be taking my transportation moderator duties too far!!!!
Any clues?

 

[debster812]

The only thing I'd look at is to make sure you are comparing Apples to Apples. Do all the prices (including the high one from the group) include all taxes, etc? I know when DS and I went to the UK in 2010 I was stunned at our final payment, which included the airline taxes.

 

[Lewisc]

Group fares have different policies.
Everyone pays the same fare. Are there 11 seats available at 980?
A small deposit is required for a group booking. Final payment might be due a month before. BIG difference, final passenger information, INCLUDING PASSENGER NAME is due 30 days out. I looked up BA info.

Booking individual, discounted fares is generally less ( in total) if you can handle different people paying different fares and if you don't need the special terms related to group fares.

 

[goofy4tink]

The school couldn't give me any ideas. I can't imagine that there are going to be that big a difference in seat pricing! If that's that 'average', then something is seriously wrong. We were told, via paperwork from the school, that booking as a group would be the cheapest way to go...evidently not. In fact, the woman in charge of handling travel for this group (and has in the past as well) was shocked to see the difference. Said it didn't make any sense for the student that was flying on her own to pay $300 less than those traveling as a group. And if this was going to be the case, then the kids should probably book on their own.
I ran numbers as a group of 9 vs a group of 5. The group of 9 got an individual price of $1181 vs the group of 5 was $986. That's just nutty to me. So, yeah, I guess the more people that book together, the higher the cost. Perhaps the kids should book in groups of 4, instead of as an entire group.

 

[Lewisc]

Group fares aren't about saving money. You don't pay when you make a reservation. You can change the names of the passengers. Think a business incentive trip, making reservations before they know which employee s qualify.

Book individually. The last person to book may get stuck with a higher fare. High enough to book a different flight. Causing issue with ground transfers

 

[goofy4tink]

Ahh, that may be so, but we were told, originally, that the group rate would probably cost less than booking on our own. I understand the whole 'booking before you know who's going', but they know who's going. These kids have already paid a hefty deposit. If they change their mind about the trip, then they can be out the money. And I'm not so sure they have anyone on the ground to get them to their hotel......at least that's what I'm getting from the info sheets we got.
I'm hoping they can book them in smaller groups...that way the kids can have friends to sit with. I was just curious as to how it all worked. With it being so close in amounts, with 9 and the 11, I'm sure it's going to be a higher fare than most of us expected....they will most likely just book them all together and the kids get to pay the addtl money. It's only money, right? You can't take it with you.

 

[Lewisc]

Your mistake was assuming the person you were talking to knows what she us talking about. You might save a few dollars if you book your kids airfare directly. Do you care if she is on a different flight then the rest of the group

 

[jec6613]

A group fare is, as mentioned, flexible. It has low to zero cost changes within a certain period, often has better baggage allowance, and so on, while the individual is a low fare bucket. Also, there's guaranteed re-accommodation if things go pear shaped on the flight, while individually no such luck.

Keep in mind of course you're going to get whacked with landing duties at LHR no matter what you do, plus other taxes and fees to the tune of $600 or so per person (which is why the lowest prices I've ever seen in and out of LHR were $700 or so), and by law that's already included in the ticket prices you're seeing. This is why it's so outrageously expensive, and why flying into Gatwick is cheaper.

 

[goofy4tink]

An update. And yes, I fully realize about the fees and taxes. Anyway.
I got a call back from the school today. The dean of the theatre dept (they're the ones that do this particular program) called their agency to see what the deal was. He told them that a parent had become concerned when she found flights that were much cheaper than theirs..on three different airlines, and on the same airline, same flights. Long story short....I was told that the agency made changes immediately. They changed from British Airways to Delta (have a friend who flew Delta to Heathrow last fall and loved it), and the price was $918 a student! I was told that no one had ever questioned it before..so they figured it was all fine, and were thrilled that I had brought the differences to their attention.

Lewisc....yes, I could have gotten dd on the same flights...but who knows how closely I could have gotten her to her friends when choosing a seat. That wasn't an issue. And yes, the woman, and the dean, know what they were talking about. They have used the same agency for years....but no one has ever questioned them. They just went with what they were quoted. And I think $345 is more than a few dollars...that actually covers her week long homestay before classes start, with money left over!!

When airlines list their fares now, they have to list all the fees and taxes right up front....no surprises. It was different the first time I flew to London....I was so excited when I found airfare that was around $350 r/t!!! Yay for me. But, when I got to the final total, it had gone up to $675 pp r/t!! Much better system nowadays...you know what you're booking immediately.

 

[jec6613]

DL is trying very hard to break into that market, so they're trying to upstage the reigning team - AA/BA (OneWorld) - so the flights are very high dispatch priority and the hard product highly competitive. Assuming she's flying out of Logan, that's a good pick to fly DL instead of BA if you don't have any FF reason to fly another airline.

 

[goofy4tink]

No FF....other than with JB. So, it looks good. And yes, Logan.

 

[seashoreCM]

(snip) I ran numbers as a group of 9 vs a group of 5. The group of 9 got an individual price of $1181 vs the group of 5 was $986. That's just nutty to me. So, yeah, I guess the more people that book together, the higher the cost.

This is the same phenonemon that families run into, there were, say, seven seats remaining at $986. so booking for eleven got you the next fare bucket at $1181. apiece.

Meanwhile your school's travel coordinator finally got the heads up and did a little shopping and/or a little wheeling and dealing to get an airline to get you (all) a lower fare and also claim* the seats for you even though there might be a few more days before the reservations are made and the payments processed.

Some years ago I attended a convention (at Coronado Springs). I had an annual pass and quietly booked a room separately at the AP rate that was then less than that convention's rate. Fortunately there were enough others who booked through the convention so they could qualify for their convention rate.

* Travel industry buzzword for something most travel agents can do and most on line private bookers can't do, which explains why you may sometimes get quoted a certain fare but by the time you type in everybody's names and click the "buy" button you get quoted a higher price or the entire transaction is rejected.

 

[goofy4tink]

I have never, ever had a fare change like that when booking directly with the airline. I have had it happen when booking thru a third party though.
I'm not sure what the issue is, or was. I'm just thrilled we are now saving hundreds of dollars

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

Group fares have different policies.
Everyone pays the same fare. Are there 11 seats available at 980?
A small deposit is required for a group booking. Final payment might be due a month before. BIG difference, final passenger information, INCLUDING PASSENGER NAME is due 30 days out. I looked up BA info.

Booking individual, discounted fares is generally less ( in total) if you can handle different people paying different fares and if you don't need the special terms related to group fares.

An update. And yes, I fully realize about the fees and taxes. Anyway.
I got a call back from the school today. The dean of the theatre dept (they're the ones that do this particular program) called their agency to see what the deal was. He told them that a parent had become concerned when she found flights that were much cheaper than theirs..on three different airlines, and on the same airline, same flights. Long story short....I was told that the agency made changes immediately. They changed from British Airways to Delta (have a friend who flew Delta to Heathrow last fall and loved it), and the price was $918 a student! I was told that no one had ever questioned it before..so they figured it was all fine, and were thrilled that I had brought the differences to their attention.

Lewisc....yes, I could have gotten dd on the same flights...but who knows how closely I could have gotten her to her friends when choosing a seat. That wasn't an issue. And yes, the woman, and the dean, know what they were talking about. They have used the same agency for years....but no one has ever questioned them. They just went with what they were quoted. And I think $345 is more than a few dollars...that actually covers her week long homestay before classes start, with money left over!!

When airlines list their fares now, they have to list all the fees and taxes right up front....no surprises. It was different the first time I flew to London....I was so excited when I found airfare that was around $350 r/t!!! Yay for me. But, when I got to the final total, it had gone up to $675 pp r/t!! Much better system nowadays...you know what you're booking immediately.

My bet.... BA pays the TA better then Delta for group booking. Personally, the woman who does this could probably do just as well calling the airlines herself and skipping the TA. In this day and age using them to book a flight tends to wind up costing money as you just discovered.

 

[sam_gordon]

This is the same phenonemon that families run into, there were, say, seven seats remaining at $986. so booking for eleven got you the next fare bucket at $1181. apiece.

This sounds like the case to me. Even if there are 4 seats at $950 (for example), 5 seats at $1200, and 2 seats at $1600, everyone would be charged the $1600 rate. We see this question weekly on the transportation board.

 

[goofy4tink]

I understand the whole issue of only so many seats for a particular fare. But, to the best of my knowledge, that shouldn't apply to group bookings.
I'm not sure if the 'agency' they use is a true TA. I believe it's used primarily by university groups.
But....no matter. The fares are where they should be. All that matters to me.