Non-Christian's how would you handle this? I'm torn (long)

[brerrabbit]

I am a Christian and I would say don't let it bother you. I totally accept the rights of non Christians to protest certain things but if it's a four year old and they are not doing teachings around the meaning of the song, then no problem. I sing in my Church Choir and have helped at and attended numerous High School Choral Festivals and competitions. They almost all sing songs of a religious nature. As other posters have noted the vast majority of the complex and beautiful (if done correctly) choral arrangements used in these competitions are from the period when the church ruled a great deal of society. Some parents protest this but the reality is there is a very short, if non exsistant list of secular choral pieces that have any chance of winning these festivals. I say go with it and if your child has any questions about the music then you should be able and prepared to explain you and your families beliefs.

 

[Laura]

This is NOT flames - just a question that I have been curious about for awhile. What do non-Christians teach their children about Christmas? What do you tell them when they want to know why there is such a holiday/why we celebrate/why we give gifts,etc? Do you teach them the history behind the holiday or just hope they don't ask?

I am a Christian and I have a really hard time at Halloween. Many of the things in the stores, children's stories, etc make me very uncomfortable. I don't exactly know what to teach my children without zapping all the fun out of it. I don't want to scream that it is all evil and lock our doors and turn out the lights, but I don't want them to think it is an important holiday that celebrates anything close to what we celebrate at Christmas. I was wondering if non-Christians have the same kind of uncomfortableness at Christmas.

Please understand this is NOT FLAMES!! I am not trying to be judgemental. I believe that my priority is to love people where they are. I think part of loving people of all beliefs is to grow in understanding of them. Not to judge them because they don't have the same belief system.

I don't have kids yet, but I would simply explain what Christians believe Christmas is. I would never try to keep a child of mine in the dark about any religious beliefs. It only does children a disservice if you keep things from them. Of course, this doesn't mean little kids need to be freaked out by scary Halloween stories! That stuff can wait. But explaining what other people believe Halloween is couldn't hurt any more than me explaining to a child what the birth of Jesus Christ means to other people.



To the OP:
I think it really depends on your own comfort level. Would you feel better if you knew they were also singing songs from other religious beliefs, like Judaism, as well as some secular songs like "Frosty the Snowman"? It would certainly bother me if the songs were all Christian.

 

[goofygirl]

Your story reminds me of something from my childhood:

I came from a non-religious home, and to this day, I don't belong to a faith, though I do like to learn and talk about theology.

I was enrolled in Girl Scout camps, which are non-denominational, yet we sang religious songs, and I loved them! I was young and didnt really think about the words and what I was singing about. I just loved singing them! I am willing to guess the 4 yr olds at your school will be the same way.


Imagine my family's surprise when I came home from camp and started singing "Rise and shine and give God your glory, glory...children of the Lord!"


I still like that song to this day. Very upbeat!

My family thought it was very interesting and kind of funny that I was singing religious songs. No damage done. The good ole days before P.C.-ness!

 

[cardaway]

I agree with cardaway and wvrevy - but perhaps the above is just an assumption. We sent DS#2 to a private, non-religious school for part of his elementary and middle school years. But, they were not constrained by the "no religion on public facilities" premise, so they readily had religious themes in the celebrations. We did not choose the school because of any religious or non-religious leaning they had. But being a private institution, they can do what the please with respect to religion. Granted, we are religious and found it nice that they weren't constrained by PC, but it seem that in this case the only real leverage you ought to have is taking your business elsewhere.

Just a thought, but many parents paying for these schools might be there because they believe it will be an alternative to the majority of private schools, which tend to be very religious.

Just as the folks in the religious schools would complain about changes (teaching birth control for exmaple) then people at this school would have valid reason for raising a flag for different concerns.

It looks like most agree that a few songs don't apply as major concern, but I do understand the thought process.

 

[wvrevy]

For a kid, they could care less what christmas is about...they just want Santa to bring them nice presents.

How do you, as a "christian", explain the fact that Christmas is nothing more than a pagan holiday (and Zeus' birthday, according to a much older religion) dressed up to fit your particular belief ? Or do you not bother with that part of the "history" of Christmas ? NOT A FLAME...just asking...

As for what I plan to tell her when she gets older...I'll probably say something to the effect of, "Christmas is the one time a year when the majority of christians actually practice what they preach". ..but then, I'm just cynical that way.

 

[caitycaity]

What do non-Christians teach their children about Christmas? What do you tell them when they want to know why there is such a holiday/why we celebrate/why we give gifts,etc? Do you teach them the history behind the holiday or just hope they don't ask?

my parents were very open in answering any of my questions about religion. i was encouraged to explore religion for myself.

my family (my parents are spiritual non-christians - i.e. they believe in god/higher power, but are not christian) celebrates christmas more as a winter celebration/yule type thing. for me it's about nature, peace on earth, and goodwill towards your fellow man. those things are not necessarily exclusive to religion.

(please no flames from christians whom this offends! i don't have a problem with other people celbrating christmas religiously and i know its origins!)

 

[Cebhfhionn]

I'm Wiccan but have no problem with Christmas carols or any other religious song for that matter.

Just let it go, no harm in learning about religion and then he can make a concious decision about what he'd like to believe.

 

[MoniqueU]

I am not particulary religious. In fact if I stated my feelings on religion and religious people I would probably end up ticking off a bunch of people. However my feeling is it isn't going to kill my kid to be singing a religious song or say the pledge of allegience. There are far bigger battles to fight.

 

[Cebhfhionn]

This is NOT flames - just a question that I have been curious about for awhile. What do non-Christians teach their children about Christmas? What do you tell them when they want to know why there is such a holiday/why we celebrate/why we give gifts,etc? Do you teach them the history behind the holiday or just hope they don't ask?

Actually, there are many different reasons why we celebrate. Technically, Christ wasn't even born in December, Christmas is celebrated then because it coincides with Winter Solstice(Yule.)

Hope they don't ask?

Ok, sorry, I don't mean to hi-jack the thread back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[chris1gill]

Huh? You're worried about him singing a religious song in a Christmas show? Seriously, to children, Christmas is about presents... presents & santa & that's it... if the class decides on a religious song, so be it, treat it like any other song.... We are not religious AT ALL, so believe me, I understand where you are coming from. Only public schools need to be PC in regards to "Holiday" shows... that's one of the many reasons our children are in an Independent private school... They can call it a Christmas party instead of a Holiday party & they call Halloween, Halloween, instead of the harvest party, or whatever ridiculous name the public school uses..

Let the kids be kids...

 

[ellyn2000]

Why would one even celebrate Christmas or participate in a Christmas play if they did not believe there was a Christ? My family didn't celebrate Christmas when I was a young child and I was not allowed to participate in anything having to do with Christmas. Teachers made certain I was a part of anything not Christmas related. I have much different beliefs now, but if you believe Christ is "mythical" then I don't see why you would allow your child to participate. The thought that there can be a "holiday" theme is odd to me---the "holiday" we're talking about is called CHRISTMAS.

 

[Disney Doll]

As for what I plan to tell her when she gets older...I'll probably say something to the effect of, "Christmas is the one time a year when the majority of christians actually practice what they preach". ..but then, I'm just cynical that way.

Yes, you are. And you are painting with a very broad brush. I may not agree with your beliefs, but I usually expect and get intelligent discourse from you which I always enjoy reading.

A snide comment is beneath you, wv.

To the OP- if it bothers you that much, don't have your child participate.My guess I though,t hat as time goes on you'll have bigger fish to fry, so perhaps just letting this one go is the answer. The bigger deal you make out of something, the bigger deal it becomes to a child. Your concern about no Christian influence may backfire and peak your child's interest in it as she gets older.

Kids learn much of their faith at home. Singing a couple of religious holiday songs probably isn't going to push your 4 year old into joining a convent.

 

[RadioNate]

Sorry when to tget a facial and I get 4 pages. Let me try to clarify a bit. I'm not really worried about him singing a religious song. I don't think one verse of Joy to the World is going to harn him or anything like that. Like I said in the OP, he's been to church with his grandmother and that is ok with us.

But this morning a was a little suprised that they were choosing from only religious songs (I saw the song book) when last year everything was very secular. I was suprised when the teacher said "let's find a song about the baby Jesus" to sing at the program. In all honesty I don't know how they are billing the program this year. I think last year it was a "holiday" program. I know his class sang, Up on the Housetop and another class sang Rudolph. I don't remember if there were any Christian religious songs.

Like I said I was really torn about the whole thing. Part of me did feel like I was making a bigger deal out of it than I probablly should (which from the replies I see that feeling was right) but I think I was just so surprised that I was made uncomfortable.

I certainly don't want him left out and I wouldn't want the class to change because of one student.

I know my choices are 1) let him do the program, religious songs included or 2) have him sit out the program. Having then change the song or throwing a fit about it isn't who I am and was never an option for me.

Today was the first mention of the holiday program so I think that threw me a little too. I just wasn't expecting to be dealing with it yet.

I think I've I'm still feeling off about the situation after the program, I might mention something to the owner. Last year I had to sign and give permission for him to participate in any of the Christmas things (and then again at Easter) even coloring Santa's or making trees. It was nice to have a head's up and I did give permission.

You guys are right, it isn't a battle worth fighting. Thank you for helping me get my head around the situation. You've all made some great points that have helped me see what I feel is important.

While I'm not sure my DH will be happy about it, I think you've all made some great arguments about why it is ok and I'm sure that after I explain my feelings and use some of your thoughts that he'll be ok with it.

 

[RadioNate]

Didn't the OP say it was a private school?

It is a non-religious private preschool. Think day care center with a 'school' element 830-1230.

 

[wvrevy]

Yes, you are. And you are painting with a very broad brush. I may not agree with your beliefs, but I usually expect and get intelligent discourse from you which I always enjoy reading.

A snide comment is beneath you, wv.

Sorry...Too much exposure to too many self-proclaimed "christians" that use their faith as a way of placing themselves above everybody else. But it wasn't a "snide comment"...it is actually what I believe to be the absolute truth.

I realize I sometimes paint with a broad brush in these discussions, but I have unfortunately found - at least among the percentage of people that will engage in such discussions - that that percentage of people that act as christians has little causal relationship with the precentage who claim to be christian. I could certainly give examples, but that would entail naming names, and I think we've hijacked this thread far enough If you're interested, PM me and I'll be glad to point you to the type of thing that makes me say that.

 

[sue1013]

If you and DH allowed him to go to church with his gandmother I'm having a hard time understanding why DH would be upset about a song.

 

[frndshpcptn]

I'm Jewish and I love to hear Christmas Carols. I think they are really pretty. We sang them in school and it really didn't mean much. We also sang some Hannukah-related songs. I don't think until I was significantly older, that I even realized what the words of some of the songs meant. I still don't really "know" the words to most of them - just like the music.

As long as they aren't breaking down the song and talking about the specific meanings behind them I would get that upset.

Now, during December I still listen to "Christmas" music - one of my favorites is the Mariah Carey song from Love Actually.

 

[cardaway]

But this morning a was a little suprised that they were choosing from only religious songs (I saw the song book) when last year everything was very secular. I was suprised when the teacher said "let's find a song about the baby Jesus" to sing at the program. In all honesty I don't know how they are billing the program this year. I think last year it was a "holiday" program. I know his class sang, Up on the Housetop and another class sang Rudolph. I don't remember if there were any Christian religious songs.

If I'm following your posts right, it seems you are concerned things are going to change, and I think that is a valid concern.

I think it was right to notice the change. I would keep the same eye open for other changes, but let it go unless this continues.

 

[cardaway]

Sorry...Too much exposure to too many self-proclaimed "christians" that use their faith as a way of placing themselves above everybody else. But it wasn't a "snide comment"...it is actually what I believe to be the absolute truth.

On that note...

Recently there has been religion threads where people have complained that others have invaded or hijacked their thread. Basically placing those threads above others, implying more than once that only like minded Christians should be responding.

Here is yet another example of how it goes both ways.

Back to the topic.

 

[RadioNate]

If you and DH allowed him to go to church with his gandmother I'm having a hard time understanding why DH would be upset about a song.

He's been to church maybe a total of 4 times in his life with my mother and DH wasn't thrilled about it but it was what happened.

One time was the Sunday after a friend's wedding. The wedding was several hours away from my mom's house and DS (who was 2 at the time) wasn't invited. We stayed overnight where the wedding was and weren't back in town before my mom when to church so she took him along. They were all situations similar to the one described.

However I did call DH about it and he seems to be ok with it. They went on a fieldtrip to a church run fall festival and DH did have some questions about that and why we were paying for them to take him to a church. Once the activities planned were explained he was ok and DS went on the trip. I seem to have overestimated DHs reaction. The more I think about it, my reaction was more of surprise rather than uncomfort. It wasn't at all what I expected to come into so I was rather taken back but as usual cooler heads have prevailed.