No wonder we never win player quests! (Quest Questions too)

[Ragtime Gal]

I "heard" two people "talking" in VMK about how they do a quest, figure out the answers, and then go on with another character and do it faster.

For some reason, I thought the quests rewarded you on how early you finished, not how quickly you finished. That way, if you went on with a second character later, there wouldn't be any advantage.

Now that I realize it is based on time, I see why we could never win a quest with our little sole character. (I wouldn't create another character just to win as that would be boring for me, and also probably not in the spirit of the kind of lessons I'm trying to teach my daughter.)

Are there any quests that are based on completing early? (Of course, then I guess the disadvantage is that you would have to get in right away.

Now the official VMK quests are just ones that you complete, right? So, everybody "wins"? Maybe we should just stick to those...

Just looking for some guidance. I only do the quests with my daughter, for her enjoyment, at this point. So, it doesn't always matter if we do win something if the quest is fun and manageable. But I know it's nice to get a little prize once in a while!

Thanks!

 

[VirtuallyMe]

There are two ways to award the prizes...

1. fastest times
2. order finished

I think the second is fairest because doesn't reward the mulers but the prizes need to be randomly placed if they are good mixed in.

Some one will always figure a way to cheat the system- human nature I guess

I tend to hop around player quests and have won some and placed way down in others... you just never know

 

[Tampa]

I like using a timed version for a quest's grand opening. A brand new quest may not appeal to a guest, but I'm sure with putting awesome magic and quest items under the gun of the timer, they might think twice.

 

[bopper]

The other thing people do to combat the "mule" doing the quest again is to put some good prizes farther down the prize list. So everybody gets a chance to win something good.

 

[AceAdventureBecca]

Now the official VMK quests are just ones that you complete, right? So, everybody "wins"? Maybe we should just stick to those...

I stick to the VMK quests cause I just can't seem to win at any of the others. I tried a -host- quest recently thinking that everyone would win something but only the 100 fastest times won. I was really disappointed to wait in a line of 50 people then do the quest and get nothing. I thought everyone would get something! IDK that was my first time so I wasn't sure what to expect, but with so many people playing it and now using their mules...I don't see the point of trying a host quest anymore.

 

[qruthie]

Some thoughts about Host quests...

I admit to having two characters do most of the quests. My goal was to get in the top 100 if I could, not to get a specific prize or to get multiple prizes. Sometimes I was successful, most times I wasn't. I hesitate to call this muling because I used characters that I use all the time, not just for credits and such. I only did a second pass if I knew I had no chance of getting in the top 100 after the first pass. For example, if I got disconnected and it took a long time to get connected again, my time would be 10 to 20 minutes longer than I actually spent doing the quest. Sometimes I just gave up on an attempt because of disonnection time or VMK going down and started the quest again with another character. If my ending time was consistent with the top 5 scores, I didn't do the quest a second time. What is consistent? Well, if the top 5 times were something like 5 minutes and my time was 7 minutes then that qualified as consistent. However, if my time was 35 minutes then I decided it was ok to try again. I realize some of you may consider this to be cheating and I respect your opinions. All I ask is you respect my honesty in admitting that I did this.

After doing a few quests and getting set back due to incorrect solutions or timing out on tasks, then getting the same task wrong again, I started writing down the solutions to each task as I went along, just in case I needed to repeat a task. This became a huge advantage toward the end of quest month. Why? Because the hosts started repeating quests. The solutions were engraved in my brain after writing them down and completing the quest once, I didn't even need to check the answers the next time the quest was used. Some of the quests were so easy to remember, I never wrote down the answers. The atom one and the green one are examples.

The task that inspired me to write down the solutions was one where you had to find a gem on the Tiki Island. I had a hard time finding the gem then messed up and had to repeat that task. I took forever to find that same gem again (I guess I was really distracted that night) only to mess up again and have to hunt for a third time. At that point, I wrote down the location of the gem in case I had to find it again! All I really cared about that night was completing the quest rather than being stuck in that seemingly endless loop. Then it dawned on me to write all of the solutions down. I think we were about half way through quest month when I figured this out.

I learned some very important details for planning a successful timed quest that would be more fair to the players. The first thing is to distribute the prizes throughout the rankings. That takes away the desire to keep trying for first place. The second thing is to allow unlimited time for tasks when possible to prevent players from having to repeat tasks due to timing out. Note, I only recommend this one for timed quests like the Host quests. It's not as much of an issue for the quests where everyone who completes the quest receives the prize. The third thing is to throw in at least one mini-game. This one made me angry at first but I grew to realize it equalized the quest a bit. Muling is harder to do because the quest takes more time to complete. It's hard to manipulate your place on the list because you don't know how long it will take to play a mini-game. I spent a lot of time waiting in the Pirates Lobby because I couldn't start a game. It was frustrating but I really appreciate how much this prevented people from controlling their placement on the winners list.

The one task I absolutely hated to encounter was the "make a friend" task. It stinks when your friends list is full and the practice encourages indiscriminate friend making. It almost seems to be against VMK values to be asked to become friends with some random player who just happens to be in the Central Plaza. It really creeped me out to be sending friend requests this way. Yuck!

One thing I would change about quests is I would like to allow people to do the quest more than once with the same character. This could be an option for the person creating the quest to choose. I think this would eliminate a lot of muling of the sort where one person wins several prizes. There could be two options for how the multiple attempts could be handled. Accept the player's best time or accept the player's time from their last attempt whether or not it is faster than their prior time.

Another option for the quests would be to offer no prizes. The prize would be the satisfaction of completing the quest. I'm enough of a puzzle nut that I would play prizeless quests.

qruthie (the 'q' is silent and ruthie loves doing quests)

 

[PirateSteve]

The one task I absolutely hated to encounter was the "make a friend" task. It stinks when your friends list is full and the practice encourages indiscriminate friend making. It almost seems to be against VMK values to be asked to become friends with some random player who just happens to be in the Central Plaza. It really creeped me out to be sending friend requests this way. Yuck!

Oh, is that how I got to be on your friends list?

What I did was contact my friend, delete her, then re-add her.
That way, I didn't have to do any "indiscriminate friend making".

Steve

 

[Anteros]

You're on to something. I realized this problem right after quest release. However, my comments at the time were met with bitterness for vmk staff and other players.

Simply put, the quest system is broken. There is no other way to say it. The future of the quest system may improve. However, do realize that the future of quests in this game must be dynamic quests. Simple uninvolved quests run by a single person will always be met with problems.

Because of this, I'm putting together a quest team to be involved in a dynamic quest system. My vision is initial basic quests in which winners will be rewarded with second and third opportunities for highly sought items. To put together a quest system of that nature would require alot of effort. I don't see the vmk staff putting anything out to enable single players to do that. The staff obviously does care about the community. However, I think the people that are capable of making such improvements is few. Honestly, I think the majority of the staff is incompetent.

 

[Adventuredaz]

I realize some of you may consider this to be cheating and I respect your opinions. All I ask is you respect my honesty in admitting that I did this.

We always give you respect - and we do appreciate your honesty...the issue itself has been beat to death. We don't have any problem with however anyone choses to play, especially since the design is what facilitates and perpetuates the activity being completed in this manor. Mules are less of a "concern when every one gets a prize then when the fastest get the prizes.

The one task I absolutely hated to encounter was the "make a friend" task. It stinks when your friends list is full and the practice encourages indiscriminate friend making. It almost seems to be against VMK values to be asked to become friends with some random player who just happens to be in the Central Plaza. It really creeped me out to be sending friend requests this way. Yuck!

The way I have decided to work around this is find a friend you know and let them know for a quest you have to make a friend - delete them and add them back - quick task solution. My problem is I not only have a full list but more or less a waiting list for curiosity sake so I have to sort through them before I can add them.

The staff obviously does care about the community. However, I think the people that are capable of making such improvements is few. Honestly, I think the majority of the staff is incompetent.

This is fairly Harsh and I would say kind of unfair to the staff. We have all had our moments I am sure where we did not like what happened with staff, But utimatly they are performing a job, a very difficult one I might add. I would argue that they are fairly powerless to make changes and operate within the perameters that are set for them. I am sure they give input and feedback but they are simply filling a role much of which is PR and moderating, often they may be left out of the loop. You have to think about it as any job - perhaps their situation isn't ideal but they do the best they can.

 

[JeanJoe]

- Applause - for those words.

I also don't think the VMK staff get the credit they deserve, for doing a difficult and thankless task, while likely having little actual _power_ to institute change, and still stay (mostly) calm and friendly throughout.

The staff obviously does care about the community. However, I think the people that are capable of making such improvements is few. Honestly, I think the majority of the staff is incompetent.

This is fairly Harsh and I would say kind of unfair to the staff. We have all had our moments I am sure where we did not like what happened with staff, But utimatly they are performing a job, a very difficult one I might add. I would argue that they are fairly powerless to make changes and operate within the perameters that are set for them. I am sure they give input and feedback but they are simply filling a role much of which is PR and moderating, often they may be left out of the loop. You have to think about it as any job - perhaps their situation isn't ideal but they do the best they can.

 

[Anteros]

I think you misunderstood my comment. I realize the vmk staff has members with very different positions. However, I felt quite a few members of "live" team including testers and developers have very little experience and understanding at working out kinks and exploits in the system.

My statement is just reflective of personal experience with several members as well as some obvious exploits in their system which is evident to the average player. If it were not for their active monitoring and involvement, the condition of the game could very easily slip.