No Such Thing as "Free Dining" ?

[JimmyV]

Doing it OOP before the price increase we would have been within $100 or so.

This, to me, pretty much ends the discussion. Some people, based on group size and eating habits, will do well on a plan. Other people will not for the same reasons. But as noted in the quote above, on average, the difference in price will be fairly negligible. This has to be the case if you assume two things to be true (which I do):

1. You can't fool all of the people all of the time. There are a lot of people buying dining plans, and a lot of these people are doing the math before committing to the plans. Not all of these people can be idiots. The system has to be saving somebody some money somewhere along the line or it would have been exposed as a fraud a long time ago.

2. Disney does not roll out new programs or continue to offer programs that cost it money. They are not in the business of giving things away. So while we can microanaylze the dining plans on a family by family basis, on average, and in the long run, Disney is, at best, breaking even on people buying the plans, and in all likelihood, profiting from people buying the plans. And if they are profiting, then we, collectively, are losing. It is a zero sum game. But the buyers can take comfort in the fact that their "loss" is accompanied by what they consider to be convenience, so there is a fair trade there.

When properly applied, the cost of dining plan should come close to the cost of OOP, and as noted above, a $100 swing one way or the other is probably about right in most instances. People who plan their meals and menu selections carefully can probably do better. So perhaps we will see DP+ in the future with an eye toward curtailing the "super users".

 

[MrInfinity]

FYI fuzzylogicllc: Just last month Target stopped permitting the pharmacy extra 5% off on Disney gift cards. So, instead of 9.75% off (it was calculated as 5% off with your Target Redcard, then 5% off that result for the pharmacy reward, so a bit less than 10% off), it's now just 5% off with the Target RedCard.

Not that the 4.75% will change the math much, but just so you aren't surprised. There are threads on the budget Disboards forums on this - several people have reported this change at Target.

Yeah, I read that. Still, 5% is better than 0%.

 

[smiths02]

This, to me, pretty much ends the discussion. Some people, based on group size and eating habits, will do well on a plan. Other people will not for the same reasons. But as noted in the quote above, on average, the difference in price will be fairly negligible. This has to be the case if you assume two things to be true (which I do):

1. You can't fool all of the people all of the time. There are a lot of people buying dining plans, and a lot of these people are doing the math before committing to the plans. Not all of these people can be idiots. The system has to be saving somebody some money somewhere along the line or it would have been exposed as a fraud a long time ago.

2. Disney does not roll out new programs or continue to offer programs that cost it money. They are not in the business of giving things away. So while we can microanaylze the dining plans on a family by family basis, on average, and in the long run, Disney is, at best, breaking even on people buying the plans, and in all likelihood, profiting from people buying the plans. And if they are profiting, then we, collectively, are losing. It is a zero sum game. But the buyers can take comfort in the fact that their "loss" is accompanied by what they consider to be convenience, so there is a fair trade there.

When properly applied, the cost of dining plan should come close to the cost of OOP, and as noted above, a $100 swing one way or the other is probably about right in most instances. People who plan their meals and menu selections carefully can probably do better. So perhaps we will see DP+ in the future with an eye toward curtailing the "super users".

Superusers LOL

Disney simply curtailed superusers by increasing the plan costs faster than food costs increased.

I think that even if the DDP saved EVERY family that used it money over OOP...Disney would still make out b/c they have your money 45 days ahead of time guaranteed to be spent at Disney. If I were OOP, I may skip a character meal or go off site.

 

[Nancyg56]

Seems to me if you have a larger family then yes free dining is a great deal. For two people it is not. The smaller groups are subsidizing the larger groups.

This is a ridiculous argument. Every family has the opportunity to run the numbers and then decide which sale works best for their needs. If a room only discount works for your family, it in no way adds to the cost of my room. Two people would probably choose those big discounts that are sometimes offer, but that my family rarely takes advantage of. My family has always saved money on the dining offer. It is not free. It is simply a different sale.

If you really want to have a spirited discussion about who is expected to "subsidize" who, talk to folks who have 5 people and want to rent only one room. Some of those folks have a opinion about equity in room choices, and the distribution of costs associated with lodging in WDW.

I think that every family needs to understand that there is no such thing as "free" when it comes to dining offers, but there are savings for many. The same goes for every special WDW offers. some are a bargain, some are not. It is up to you to determine which one works best for you. It is a little mean-spirited to suggest that my bargain costs you money.

 

[MillauFr]

It is a little mean-spirited to suggest that my bargain costs you money.

Why is the word "subsidized" treated as a four letter word? I think the people that are running all of the numbers and using the spreadsheets in order to maximize their discounts should be commended. I would treat it as a badge of honor if I got the biggest discount. I love trying to outsmart Disney's bean counters. And from reading these boards many others do as well. Most of the people reading these boards are way ahead of the general public in reducing the cost of their Disney vacations.

 

[North of Mouse]

FD is always a better deal for us, but we love food!!! The rack rate still saves us money over the very minimal amount of food we would buy, and at least once a year makes us feel very wealthy eating at the best TS! If you are a "pack the cereal and peanut butter, and make sandwiches" the whole trip, you may be better off with a room discount. It is all in what you like. We like to eat.

We 'do not' come out ahead with the so called free dining even though we too like to eat (not huge eaters though). Two main things are we do not want - dessert with our meals, and we only want water - even at home (no sodas).
We prefer to choose our snacks/desserts at times/places of our choice (or not).

We have saved our receipts several visits and always pay far less $$'s than the free dining would afford. Unlike some have stated, we always order what we want, never 'pack' a lunch and still save. We know what the price of the food is, so the 'convenience' of paying in advance means nothing to us. We have the 'convenience' of charging it to our room, then our credit card, then paying it off when the bill comes.

But, I can see the point when families have several Disney 'children' and do lots of character meals to take the discounted dining over discounted room rates - but then would depend on hotel choices and percentages off.

 

[supersnoop]

We 'do not' come out ahead with the so called free dining even though we too like to eat (not huge eaters though). Two main things are we do not want - dessert with our meals, and we only want water - even at home (no sodas). We prefer to choose our snacks/desserts at times/places of our choice (or not). We have saved our receipts several visits and always pay far less $$'s than the free dining would afford. Unlike some have stated, we always order what we want, never 'pack' a lunch and still save. We know what the price of the food is, so the 'convenience' of paying in advance means nothing to us. We have the 'convenience' of charging it to our room, then our credit card, then paying it off when the bill comes. But, I can see the point when families have several Disney 'children' and do lots of character meals to take the discounted dining over discounted room rates - but then would depend on hotel choices and percentages off.

Your complaints seem to be focused on the normal cost is the dining plan, not the free dining that's included as a promotion with rack-rate rooms. When you're paying an extra $50/night, versus $60/person/night, there's a huge difference.

 

[Nancyg56]

Why is the word "subsidized" treated as a four letter word? I think the people that are running all of the numbers and using the spreadsheets in order to maximize their discounts should be commended. I would treat it as a badge of honor if I got the biggest discount. I love trying to outsmart Disney's bean counters. And from reading these boards many others do as well. Most of the people reading these boards are way ahead of the general public in reducing the cost of their Disney vacations.

Subsidized can very often have a negative connotation and while I take you on your word that you did not mean to imply that those DDP users who benefitted from the plan were doing so on your dime, you can understand that the post I replied to had a lot of this explanation missing. If I responded I appropriately, I apologize.

 

[MillauFr]

If I responded I appropriately, I apologize.

No worries.

I take you on your word that you did not mean to imply that those DDP users who benefitted from the plan were doing so on your dime

To be more clear I think it is very difficult to determine if you are really getting a good deal or not. I've looked a bit at those spreadsheets that some have developed and they are pretty complex and require many assumptions that are difficult to accurately quantify.

If your intent is to prepay for your meals so you do not have to worry about getting a big credit card bill when you return, then yes I see the appeal of the Dining Plan. It is a great deal for these groups of people.

 

[ericstac]

We have always done 'free dining' except this next trip.. Here is my take on it.

The amount of money I spend extra in tips alone daily I could feed my family if we were to bring our own groceries.. So it actually cost more to do free dining lol.. BUT, we love food and enjoy restaurants and during those types of trips we are spending money on restaurants because that is part of our vacation planned out..

This next trip we got a room discount and are paying out of pocket for three ressies and then eating groceries which is saving me a lot of money by doing so, not just from the killer room discount but from not spending all the tip money.

So to me, it's all about your budget and vacation desires.. Will we do free dining option again? You bet, when we are focused on enjoying a lot of food we will. I just wish the tips we included.

 

[CalSea12]

I have always done "free" dining or paid for a dining plan, typically I even upgrade to Deluxe. Usually I go during October, so I love using the snack credits on F&W for lunch one day.

Family also loves food even though there is just my DD, DD (2) and me, typically we lose 5-10 pounds before we go because we know we will put that right back on. If I wasnt on the DxDP I would still eat at 2 TC restaurants. I would still order appetizers, desserts, and whatever I wanted on the menu. I also love to get other snacks like cake pops, caramel, toffee etc. We like to eat at 2 to 3 TS restaurants a day.

So the DP's save us money, because typically we would spend at least 200-300 more on food OOP. So obviously DP's work for us, right?

 

[Nancyg56]

No worries. To be more clear I think it is very difficult to determine if you are really getting a good deal or not. I've looked a bit at those spreadsheets that some have developed and they are pretty complex and require many assumptions that are difficult to accurately quantify. If your intent is to prepay for your meals so you do not have to worry about getting a big credit card bill when you return, then yes I see the appeal of the Dining Plan. It is a great deal for these groups of people.

I think that it can be complicated, but I have never used a spreadsheet. I know what my family eats, and I know how much that costs. I know that if my husband is with us, we have to make different dining plans than if he is not, and we spend even more. It is clear to me that we have always saved money, and I made no assumptions before we chose the plan, but the days of "no brainer" plans are long gone. I always run my numbers and chooose the discount that works best.

I really thin that some of the problem when we discuss the options on the DIS is that some folks feel that their way is the only way, and that if their numbers show no savings, then there are none.

I can tell you that one reason some people feel more comfortable using the plan is because they feel free to order what they want, do not feel the need to share desserts, or tell the kids the cost is too much, etc. I am one of those folks who cannot help looking at prices. I have done this all my life, tend to order the options that are less expensive, and I would do this on vacation. Maybe not every meal, but even though I love dessert, I would skip my cupcake at lunch after I saw the $5 price tag. With the DDP I enjoy my cupcake, even if I don't eat all of it.

 

[magicbob]

I agree that there's no such thing as "free" dining. The cost is reflected in lost room discounts, etc. But for some people, "free" dining can still be a significant cost savings. As others have said, it depends on several factors:

Make-up of your family
Which resort you're staying at
How much (if any) room discount you would have gotten
Your family's eating habits
etc.

I always recommend running the numbers to see if it will be a savings. For my family, it varies from trip to trip. Sometimes we do better with "free" dining, sometimes better OOP, and on occasion we sometimes even do better purchasing DDP.

One thing to be wary of. Sometimes the "savings" of DDP actually costs you more. By this, I mean... you'll see many reviews (my own included) that say they spent $500-600 on DDP and ate $1200 worth of food. But the question is whether you would have only spent $300 if you weren't "splurging" at TS and signature restaurants that you ordinarily would not have gone to.

For us, we know we could eat cheaper, but we like to splurge on the more expensive meals. DDP encourages you to eat at the more expensive locations. If you were going to eat at those places anyway, DDP can be a big savings (but even then you should run the numbers to compare OOP).

 

[Disneylover99]

We go to DW at the end of August regardless of discount. It's really the only time our family can travel together for a prolonged period of time. Last year we booked the fd bb for POFQ. POFQ is one of our favourite resorts and we agreed that we would stay there bb or not, but we were lucky enough to get fd there.

Right now there are no discounts available at all at POFQ for our dates, so if we didn't book the fd bb, we would be paying rack rate for our room anyways. So for us, free dining really is free!

 

[averysmom]

We've always come our ahead for FD. We have always travelled at the end up August-even before that became a FD time of year- I am a teacher and it is the cheapest, least busy time of year I can go. We don't stay deluxe- only mods- and when the kids were smaller we did values. For us a 20-30% room discount just isn't as beneficial. For us, the DP also really adds to our vaca- without it, I'm always looking at prices, worrying about cost. The DP takes that off my shoulders. I don't know I'd we'd ever pay for it though... Our next trip we will all be disney adults, and the cost will be too prohibitive to pay for it. But for free? A total option!

 

[DeborahA]

We have never been able to get free dining because we are AP holders and Florida residents. We can sometimes benefit from a deal on a room and then purchase the DP, but we never get it free. Often times we pay rack and purchase the DP. For us it is worth it because we enjoy the TS every night of our trips and we like to eat. For our folks who are in the same situation, it would be a waste. My folks eat very little, and they mostly just snack throughout the day.
It works for the two of us, depending on the way you like to dine it may cost you money.

 

[Nancyg56]

I agree that there's no such thing as "free" dining. The cost is reflected in lost room discounts, etc. But for some people, "free" dining can still be a significant cost savings. As others have said, it depends on several factors:



One thing to be wary of. Sometimes the "savings" of DDP actually costs you more. By this, I mean... you'll see many reviews (my own included) that say they spent $500-600 on DDP and ate $1200 worth of food. But the question is whether you would have only spent $300 if you weren't "splurging" at TS and signature restaurants that you ordinarily would not have gone to.

For us, we know we could eat cheaper, but we like to splurge on the more expensive meals. DDP encourages you to eat at the more expensive locations. If you were going to eat at those places anyway, DDP can be a big savings (but even then you should run the numbers to compare OOP).

You make a valid point. For my family, dining on vacation is not a splurge, it is a fact. WE like dessert, we like appetizers, and we like sit down dinners. We always have a beverage with a meal, other than water, and we would buy the refillable mugs anyway (I love those mugs!!!) For my family, the big question in the past has been if it would pay to upgrade to the DxDDP. It does not.

I am planning a DGD/Nana trip and when Kady an dI go, we will not be getting teh regular plan, but I will invest in the QS plan. We will at least break even, and a long as we do, I am fine with teh cost paid upfront. i am never okay with losing money.