No more Prince or Princesses

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starlite_

DIS Veteran
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
I also think it's potentially more harmful to the person (whatever age) is misgendered than it is to the person that doesn't want to be called friend.

Whether people think it should be brushed off or not, people (of any age) are still bullied and mistreated for various reasons and if Disney wants to help make their parks the happiest and most magical by calling people friends to avoid making things worse it's fantastic.

If being called friend is really that offensive to you then try taking that offense and imagining what the misgendered person would feel like being called prince/princess and then probably magnify it a bit since it happens more often than you being called friend does.
True. But, to me it appears to be asymmetric. Using a gender-neutral term that sounds a little harsh on the ear might bother someone a little bit. Mis-gendering someone feels harsher than that.

So, even though there exist people who can take exception to any particular direction, there still might be reasons to pick one direction over another if you are a business who makes money by selling happiness.

👏👏👏👏

Both of these so much.
 

RoseGold

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
I recently went with a small child in a princess dress, you will be glad to know the "princess" title is live and well. So, if you want to be called princess, just wear a tiara or something. There you go!
 

BrianL

Doom Buggy Driver
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
I also think it's potentially more harmful to the person (whatever age) is misgendered than it is to the person that doesn't want to be called friend.

Whether people think it should be brushed off or not, people (of any age) are still bullied and mistreated for various reasons and if Disney wants to help make their parks the happiest and most magical by calling people friends to avoid making things worse it's fantastic.

If being called friend is really that offensive to you then try taking that offense and imagining what the misgendered person would feel like being called prince/princess and then probably magnify it a bit since it happens more often than you being called friend does.

You know, I was bulied as a kid, pretty much for not being "manly" enough. I was called a girl, a sissy, gay, etc. And bullying of any kind hurts of course, but I was never bullied by an honest mistake. Those kids were trying to insult me. For me, and again, this was my experience, I found what helped was to minimize the power of those insults - I mean, what's so terrible about them? They could have been calling me stupid or something much worse.

What people forget is that it isn't what you are, but rather who you are that's important. For me, remembering that was a way to help me move past that bullying.
 

imbelle

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
I was thinking about what my options would be, if I were a Cast Member, to avoid giving offense. I wouldn't want to misgender anyone and calling complete strangers "friend" seems fake & creepy. Since "guest" is already a Disney term, I think I would use that whenever possible, such as "Could our guests please fill in all of the available space?" or "Would our honored guest please step to this side please?" A bit formal perhaps but still respectful.
If I wanted to recognize a child in a princess dress, I could admire the dress itself or say "Princess Tiana would be so pleased that you chose to wear her gown today".
 

afan

Honorary Bus Driver
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
You know, I was bulied as a kid, pretty much for not being "manly" enough. I was called a girl, a sissy, gay, etc. And bullying of any kind hurts of course, but I was never bullied by an honest mistake. Those kids were trying to insult me. For me, and again, this was my experience, I found what helped was to minimize the power of those insults - I mean, what's so terrible about them? They could have been calling me stupid or something much worse.

What people forget is that it isn't what you are, but rather who you are that's important. For me, remembering that was a way to help me move past that bullying.

But it takes maturity, learning from experiences and being taught to do that for it to happen. Not all people are able to even do that as an asult, nevermind a 10 or 12 year old.

We all get you, and many others, have been able to learn to let it roll of, be who you are etc. But not everyone can do that.

Plus some of these people are trying to be who they are and are misgendered. The answer shouldn't be suck it up, rub some dirt on it and keep going. A society should evolve and people either go along with it and learn and evolve themselves or they look like whatever not nice word you want to insert here.
 

jkh36619

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Though it doesn't bother me, I have to admit the "hello friend" does seem a bit off and I can't really explain why. Maybe because just a "hello" sounds more common place.

side note: I did read somewhere (can't remember where) that "guys" has become more accepting as a gender neutral word. I have personally walked up on mixed groups of people with a "What's up guys?" many times.
 

Brian Noble

Gratefully in Recovery
Joined
Mar 23, 2004
As a CM, I address the kids in question AS the character whose outfit they're wearing.
My son, when he was 3 or 4, walked up to Snow White in Disneyland, put one foot out and both hands on his hips, and announced: "I'm Spiderman!"

She looked down at him and said "Well yes you are!" with all her heart. It was absolutely one of our favorite family memories in the park.

I did read somewhere (can't remember where) that "guys" has become more accepting as a gender neutral word.
At one point, my direct reports were 85% women. They asked me not to use the term "guys", and it took a while, but I did eventually drop it. I guess I figured it wasn't my job to decide that for them.
 

SkipperDave

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
side note: I did read somewhere (can't remember where) that "guys" has become more accepting as a gender neutral word. I have personally walked up on mixed groups of people with a "What's up guys?" many times.
It's becoming less accepted.
 

Her Dotness

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
The problem I have with binary labels (Prince/Princess or ladies/gentlemen) is that they reduce people to the characteristics of appearance and behavior society used to assign inflexibly to each gender.

Think of the colors pink and blue for a moment. I'm betting gender-specific images popped into mind for each. That's how fixed our ideas can become by what we've been taught is appropriate for one gender or the other and how each must appear and behave.

The important thing to become aware of, IMO, is how restrictive those ideas are.

I think it a long overdue change for our society to be starting to acknowledge that gender designations are unnecessarily restrictive and are painful for some people.

Moving beyond binary expectations allows more people to be themselves freely and happily. I'm glad to see CMs being the change by using gender-neutral forms of address and hope their example moves guests to be more aware and inclusive at Disney and elsewhere.
 

eksmama01

No time for trolls...
Joined
Oct 2, 2020
I'm at WDW now, and I made a lot of new "friends" today. This is great! It's hard to make new friends when you're in your fifties. I can't wait to go out to dinner with these new friends.
But seriously, on our June trip, I felt like a waiter was intentionally calling my kid Ma'am. What twenty-two year old is a Ma'am?? The waiter was my age! I didn't call this waiter out when I contacted guest relations, but I do think there was some intentionality in their behavior. As a parent, this really made me sad.
I know it has been mentioned several times, but Ma'am is a southern respectful term that is ingrained from an early age for many of us. My mother moved to LA in her early 20s in the 70s from the south. She was bullied and ridiculed for saying Ma'am. Ironically she was also voted most courteous in HS lol. For many it seems like Ma'am is an indicator they are an old lady, but I know for us that is not the case.
Do I get the angst? No. For over 10 years on THIS forum posters referred to me - as him. I'm not. I didn't care because in the context is simply isn't important. I've been called worse, I don't care.
I just thought you loved Stranger Things. :love:
 

lotsohugginbear

Mouseketeer
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
This waiter was from New York! I totally get what you and HopperFan are saying, and certainly I could see that someone who moved down to Orlando might pick up the local lingo.
 

eandt

DIS Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
I know it has been mentioned several times, but Ma'am is a southern respectful term that is ingrained from an early age for many of us. My mother moved to LA in her early 20s in the 70s from the south. She was bullied and ridiculed for saying Ma'am. Ironically she was also voted most courteous in HS lol. For many it seems like Ma'am is an indicator they are an old lady, but I know for us that is not the case.

I just thought you loved Stranger Things. :love:
Southern folks are the same way using the terms Miss/Mr followed by a first name to address people. It's just being respectful and there is zero harm in that no matter what the circumstances. Maybe cast members should stick to "hey you" when they address folks to avoid potentially having their lives/careers ruined for innocently trying to be nice. Frankly I am just gonna keep being nice as I know nice to be and if I offend anyone I will continue to be nice and apologize for my "mistake"
 

Alicefan

Give me a cloudy day in Winter!
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Hmmmmm. I think I'm getting the gist of this back and forth.

If someone is transgendered or gender-conflicted and gets misgendered, they're obligated to laugh it off because no harm was intended.

It seems it's too much of an effort, entirely too burdensome, to show consideration that not everyone's appearance necessarily matches their gender identity and that being misgendered can be upsetting.

It's on those being misgendered to "take it as well meant, laugh it off and get over it."

Because it's not as big a deal as some people want to make it.

Isn't that what several here are insisting?
Maybe the parents should be teaching their children that people can never see what you feel inside and mistakes are going to be made like that throughout the rest of their lives.
 

charmed59

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
My girls love it when the CM's refer to them as Princess. They have only wore a "princess" dress once when they did BBB. All the other times that are in regular clothes and many many CM's refer to them as Princess. I really hope they don't take that away from the 99% who don't mind and actually like the term. For the 1% that are offended a simple "I'm sorry" should be fine. I'm just sick of losing everything for the sake of others and being the "Bad Guy" for standing up for what I believe. Good for those that choose an alternative lifestyle. I will never shame them or talk bad about them. It's their choice. Just don't ram it down my throat and make me change my ways for you. I will never ask you to change for me.
Just get them shirts or buttons that say “please call me Princess” and I’m sure they’ll oblige. I believe they are trying to call people what they would prefer to be called, and if they don’t know they want to ensure they don’t call them something that would offend. If your make your preference known they can call them princess without the fear of offending them.
 
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