No More ADR's at conflicting times

[mill4023]

but, see, that isn't fair to those of us who plan. those of us who mark out a schedule, with the emh hours, parade hours, fireworks,etc.; try to fit everything in. the "new" opening 1 month ahead of time.. well that no longer helps someone who already planned a whole bunch of other stuff, that can't be changed. you know.. the "domino" effect.. if you change this, then that changes that...

I'm one of you. I have a spreadsheet with all the hours, EMH's, TGM's park recommendations, Touring Plan's park recommendations, etc., etc.
At one point I had about 6 different itinerary options on my spreadsheet and was weighing the pros and cons of all of them.

And just to be clear, I didn't double book a bunch of stuff 6 months out and wait until 1 month to cancel. I double booked when Disney changed a bunch of park hours and I decided to change our plans and switch our kids from one YES class to a different one. When I made that decision, I made some conditional ADR's based on the plan changes I wanted to make and I had to wait almost a week to get confirmation back from Disney on whether we could change classes.

 

[CarrieR]

However, let's assume you made your original 5:15 reservation prior to the software update. The system may not require you to cancel your old reservation when booking the new 6:50 ADR.

Again....this is simply a guess and I acknowledge I may be wrong.

Hmm, good idea! Your assumption is correct, I made my 5:15 ADR at or near 180 days. It was a long time ago, definitely last year, lol!

Phone ressies may (or may not) have a pop up alerting the CSM of conflict. But even the pop up you see on-line says you can call to make overlapping ressies by phone. So that probably IS a factor.

Sorry for my lack of clarity -- I didn't make the reservation *over* the phone, I made it *on* my phone, ie, via the mobile website. It's easier to check repeatedly via my cell than to bust out the laptop every hour, lol.

 

[pilferk]

Sorry for my lack of clarity -- I didn't make the reservation *over* the phone, I made it *on* my phone, ie, via the mobile website. It's easier to check repeatedly via my cell than to bust out the laptop every hour, lol.

Gotcha.

THAT could be a significant wrinkle. I wonder if their system detects how you're accessing the system and, knowing they can't deliver a proper pop-up because of the environment, just bypasses it and allows the double booking.

It'd be interesting to test it....

 

[mcd2745]

To be honest...I would have no issue with Disney instituting a 360 day window, so long as it allowed equal access. I suspect, given what we know about their system, they wouldn't implement one because their OTHER systems don't, usually, provide that kind of leeway. Even the DVC system only allows bookings 11 months out. But just by way of "for instance"....I'd either plan further in advance or live with the risks of planning closer to my departure date. I wouldn't ask (or expect) the system to change FOR ME. Now, I would expect that if Disney found that a large segment of their customers weren't using that window...they'd change it.

As much as I dislike the 180 day window, unfortunately, I do believe that if/when they ever change the window again, it will be to 365 days.

And, again, the 180 day window is an inclusive window. It tells customers they CAN do something (all of them). The 90 day window is much more EXCLUSIVE, telling a good sized customer segment they CAN'T do something. That's the difference. If there was little booking volume between the 180 and 90 day mark....Disney would probably change the window (and rightfully so). But we KNOW that's not the case. There is obviously ample demand (as evidenced by ADRsgetting filled up)...and since Disney's ultimate goal is to fill tables....I'm not sure what any change would accomplish. Given the evidence we DO have....it's tough to argue that the "90 dayers" are a sizeable enough market segment for Disney to make changes for.

We can validly spin this concept either way all day long. While your arguement isn't without logic, one could easily say that a 90 day (or even shorter) window is much more inclusive. You will now have included a lot more people in having an equal opportunity at obtaining the most popular ADRs. And while you say they would be telling SOME people that they can't do something - that's not totally accurate. They are telling EVERYONE that they can't do something. That is, until a certain point (90 days or less), at which time a much more inclusive group can now do something.

 

[mom2rtk]

They are telling EVERYONE that they can't do something. That is, until a certain point (90 days or less), at which time a much more inclusive group can now do something.

OK, my head's starting to hurt.

365 would just push me over the edge and make me mad. And I LIKE the 180 day deal! But it made me mad last year when they announced the discounts for the vast majority of 2011. Just too much for me to commit on THAT far out. So I completely did not book ANY of them. Of course, I"m holding out for a new December discount now for 2011. But still....... a year out was overkill.

Of course it didn't help that at the time they announced the 2011 deals, I was still paying off my 2010 trip........

 

[mcd2745]

Just as an experiment, I thought I'd check available ADR's for Oct 1 at 6 PM, in Epcot.

I know...Oct 1st isn't busy season. I'm also unsure if there is free dining going on (maybe only with a PIN?). And I'm sure during busy season/free dining it's a completely different story (though I looked for August 6th...maybe got lucky on the landing date...and only see 5 places on Disney property listed as unavailable). I'm sure the 180 day window is much more important to use during those times.

But, having said that, the ONLY 2 restaurants that were UNAVAILABLE in Epcot between 4 PM and 8 PM were Le Cellier and Teppan Edo.

Only Coral Reef and Via Napoli offered times an hour or more past my requested 6 PM (7:30 for Coral Reef, 7 PM for Via Napoli). Every other sit down at Epcot was within 40 minutes of my requested time (before or after).

Granted, it's a snapshot. But it's a snapshot on a Saturday night, in Epcot, during Food and Wine.

Given that, I would have to agree with a previous poster: There's usually SOMEPLACE to eat. Maybe not if you wait til you walk up...but assuming you're willing/able to make ADR's at least somewhat in advance.

I have to suspect that the date you chose is not a very good barometer. I have a feeling a lot of people who are there at that time for Food & Wine don't look for TS meals. Instead, they kind of "nosh" their way around WS from all the different booths.

Yes, technically, there's always someplace to eat - and I'm just speaking TS. No one will ever dispute that. But most of those "someplaces" are remote resort restaurants like Shutters, Olivia's, Boatwrights, Turf Club, etc. And clearly, it is not desirable for anyone to waste 90 minutes to two hours or more transporting to/from these places. So while technically, these are options, they aren't practical ones.

 

[pilferk]

As much as I dislike the 180 day window, unfortunately, I do believe that if/when they ever change the window again, it will be to 365 days.

Maybe. Again, their current systems (from booking to park hours to...well..just about everything) don't currently lend themselves well to that window. But they might change things if they think there's enough volume and benefit to do it.\

We can validly spin this concept either way all day long. While your arguement isn't without logic, one could easily say that a 90 day (or even shorter) window is much more inclusive.

How so?
Do you think the majority of people are those that can't make ADR's until 90 days?
Because, given what we see of open tables and availability...I'd have to disagree.

You will now have included a lot more people in having an equal opportunity at obtaining the most popular ADRs.

Those people have an equal opportunity right NOW. They're already included. That they can't use the system provide for them because of life/preference/choice isn't something Disney needs to, or even should, address. Again...you can't design a system that accounts for every one of those things and still have it function.

That the "90 dayers" can't take advantage of the inclusion provided isn't Disney's fault, is it?

And unless you can quantify "a lot more", and show that they are a large enough customer segment to give disney pause....see previous explanation of "systems".

And while you say they would be telling SOME people that they can't do something - that's not totally accurate. They are telling EVERYONE that they can't do something. That is, until a certain point (90 days or less), at which time a much more inclusive group can now do something.

But telling those 90 dayers they "cant' do something" isn't actually doing that. Not in practice. Because they don't want to.

So really, the restriction only applies to the customer segment that does. A customer segment that we know is, at this point, large enough to make ADR's harder to get as time gets closer to the 90 day mark.

If I tell everyone they can't make ADR's at 7 AM anymore, but have to wait until 10 AM....am I really telling those that want to call at 10 AM that they can't call prior to that? I suppose, functionally, I am...but in practice...not so much.

And, again, what good reason would Disney have to do that?

 

[pilferk]

I have to suspect that the date you chose is not a very good barometer. I have a feeling a lot of people who are there at that time for Food & Wine don't look for TS meals. Instead, they kind of "nosh" their way around WS from all the different booths.

Then, by all means, pick another date that's a bit more than 90 days, but less than, say, 140 days. How about a Saturday in September (but not around the holiday weekend..again, in Epcot):

Sept 17th, 6 PM, 4 guests:

Unavailable: Le Cellier

Outside 60 minutes from request: Teppan Edo, Coral Reef

Otherwise, everything available within 60 minutes (before or after) 6 PM.

or a Saturday in August,

August 13th, 6 PM, 4 guests:

Unavailable: NOTHING

Outside 60 minutes from request: Le Cellier,

Everything else was available within 60 minutes (before or after) 6 PM.

I would offer that a Saturday in October, during one of Epcot's busier festivals is at least a COMPELLING date to look at. Now take a Saturday in September and another in August. It's not exhaustive...and if you want to engage in an exhaustive search, feel free.

But it was a random Saturday (and now a few Saturdays) that is a reasonable amount of time down the pike.

Yes, technically, there's always someplace to eat - and I'm just speaking TS. No one will ever dispute that. But most of those "someplaces" are remote resort restaurants like Shutters, Olivia's, Boatwrights, Turf Club, etc. And clearly, it is not desirable for anyone to waste 90 minutes to two hours or more transporting to/from these places. So while technically, these are options, they aren't practical ones.

It doesn't look that way, given what's in the system I'm actually LOOKING at. Sometimes, maybe. During really busy times of year, probably.

But it doesn't look that way USUALLY. Provided you're willing to make ADR's within a reasonable amount of time (and NOT at 180 days).

Unless you have data that shows otherwise?

 

[mom2rtk]

Just as an experiment, I thought I'd check available ADR's for Oct 1 at 6 PM, in Epcot.

I know...Oct 1st isn't busy season. I'm also unsure if there is free dining going on (maybe only with a PIN?). And I'm sure during busy season/free dining it's a completely different story (though I looked for August 6th...maybe got lucky on the landing date...and only see 5 places on Disney property listed as unavailable). I'm sure the 180 day window is much more important to use during those times.

But, having said that, the ONLY 2 restaurants that were UNAVAILABLE in Epcot between 4 PM and 8 PM were Le Cellier and Teppan Edo.

Only Coral Reef and Via Napoli offered times an hour or more past my requested 6 PM (7:30 for Coral Reef, 7 PM for Via Napoli). Every other sit down at Epcot was within 40 minutes of my requested time (before or after).

Granted, it's a snapshot. But it's a snapshot on a Saturday night, in Epcot, during Food and Wine.

Given that, I would have to agree with a previous poster: There's usually SOMEPLACE to eat. Maybe not if you wait til you walk up...but assuming you're willing/able to make ADR's at least somewhat in advance.

Not sure if it would affect the outcome......... but Oct 1st is the 40th Anniversary of the Magic Kingdom. Maybe people think they're doing a special fireworks display or something. Do big anniversaries like that tend to attract people?

It's not within the announced free dining dates yet. But there could be a few folks still on free dining who checked in during the FD period.

 

[3Minnies1Mickey]

We are 101 days away from our 2 week trip in September. I am having NO trouble adding my in laws to our ADRs moving our party of 6 to 8 (clarification I'm looking for a new ADR for 8 at the same time I already have a party of 6, then canceling the old ADR for 6). Now granted we are going at a less crowded time, but we are right in there with free dining (both the old and new offer).

** Disclaimer: I do not have 'Ohana or Le Cellier booked at all since they don't appeal to us.

 

[pilferk]

To add ONE more:

July 16th (well inside the 90 day mark...on a Saturday during what most would consider busy season), 4 guests, 6 PM, Epcot:

Unavailable: Nothing
Outside 60 minutes: Nothing
Every restaurant in the park (including Le Cellier) has availability.

 

[pilferk]

Not sure if it would affect the outcome......... but Oct 1st is the 40th Anniversary of the Magic Kingdom. Maybe people think they're doing a special fireworks display or something. Do big anniversaries like that tend to attract people?

It's not within the announced free dining dates yet. But there could be a few folks still on free dining who checked in during the FD period.

Good point.

But I've now looked at a Saturday in July, August, September, AND October, for Epcot.

All show available tables at a LOT of options. Not always Le Cellier. Not always GREAT options at Teppan Edo or Coral Reef, in terms of times.

But options.

That's not exhaustive, I agree. But its at least SOMETHING to chew on.

Edit: Just for grins, I checked MK for availability on 10/1 at 6 PM for 4 guests:

Unavailable: Nothing
Outside 60 min: Cinderella's Royal Table (4 PM) , Crystal Palace (7:25 PM)
Liberty Tree, Tony's, and the Plaza all have open tables well within the request time frame (60 min before/after).

GF, Contemp, Poly, and WL all have options available too (though Chef Mickey's and Ohana are "sold out").

 

[mcd2745]

Then, by all means, pick another date that's a bit more than 90 days, but less than, say, 140 days. How about a Saturday in September (but not around the holiday weekend..again, in Epcot):

Sept 17th, 6 PM, 4 guests:

Unavailable: Le Cellier

Outside 60 minutes from request: Teppan Edo, Coral Reef

Otherwise, everything available within 60 minutes (before or after) 6 PM.

or a Saturday in August,

August 13th, 6 PM, 4 guests:

Unavailable: NOTHING

Outside 60 minutes from request: Le Cellier,

Everything else was available within 60 minutes (before or after) 6 PM.

I would offer that a Saturday in October, during one of Epcot's busier festivals is at least a COMPELLING date to look at. Now take a Saturday in September and another in August. It's not exhaustive...and if you want to engage in an exhaustive search, feel free.

But it was a random Saturday (and now a few Saturdays) that is a reasonable amount of time down the pike.



It doesn't look that way, given what's in the system I'm actually LOOKING at. Sometimes, maybe. During really busy times of year, probably.

But it doesn't look that way USUALLY. Provided you're willing to make ADR's within a reasonable amount of time (and NOT at 180 days).

Unless you have data that shows otherwise?

September/October is traditionally the slowest time of year. So you have the calendar on your side right now.


It's much different on August 27 (when I'll be there). Using your criteria - Epcot, 6pm, party of of 4.

Unavailable: Le Cellier, Coral Reef

Outside 60 minutes: Teppan Edo, Via Napoli, Tutto, Garden Grill,

This is probably a lot more typical. And the end of August is far from a peak time.

 

[pilferk]

September/October is traditionally the slowest time of year. So you have the calendar on your side right now.

It's much different on August 27 (when I'll be there). Using your criteria - Epcot, 6pm, party of of 4.

Unavailable: Le Cellier, Coral Reef

Outside 60 minutes: Teppan Edo, Via Napoli, Tutto, Garden Grill,

This is probably a lot more typical. And the end of August is far from a peak time.

Which leaves:

Akersus, Biergarten, Bistro, La Hacienda, Chefs de France, 9 Dragons, Marakesh, Rose and Crown, San Angel, and Tokyo Dining all within range on that Saturday.

Definitely lots of options.

I detailed an earlier Saturday in August, which had lots of options.

For 8/20:

Unavailable: Coral Reef, Tepan Edo, Akersus
Outside 60: Garden Grill, Tuto Italia, Le Cellier.
Lots of options at the rest

For 8/6:
Unavailable: Via Napoli
Outside 60: Le Cellier, Teppan Edo
Everything else available.

I'd say we've now reached a point where it's MORE than compelling that there is usually somewhere to eat. We've now looked at every Saturday in August, a Saturday in July, a Saturday in September, and a Saturday in October. It's still not exhaustive...but it's a decent sample. There are places to eat in every scenario, and not someplace in the middle of nowhere, either. Practical options, for sure.

The popular places and character meals are tough tickets, to be sure. And there may be busier times/free dining that makes things tougher, too. But USUALLY (meaning...most of the time, most of the year), it sure looks like (more and more) there are options, provided you're willing to make ADR's at a reasonable time frame.

 

[pilferk]

Because now I'm interested, here's the whole summer...pretty much:
7/30
U: Nothing
>60: Nothing

7/23
U: Garden Grill
>60: Le Cellier

7/9
U: Nothing
>60: Le Cellier

6/25:
U: Nothing
>60: Teppan Edo, Le Cellier, Garden Grill, Coral Reef

6/18:
U: Coral Reef, Le Cellier
>60: Teppan Edo

6/11:
U: Akersus, Coral Reef, Garden Grill, Le Cellier, Teppan Edo
>60: Via Napoli

6/4:
U: Akershus, Coral Reef, Garden Grill, Le Cellier, Teppan Edo, Via Napoli
>60: Le Chefs De France, Rose and Crown, San Angel, Tutto Italia

U = Unavailable
>60 = Outside 60 minutes from requested time

If it's not listed, there was an option withing 60 min (before or after) the requested time frame.


I'm gonna have to turn all this into a spreadsheet and try to keep it updated regularly.

 

[mom2rtk]

Because now I'm interested, here's the whole summer...pretty much:
7/30
U: Nothing
>60: Nothing

7/23
U: Garden Grill
>60: Le Cellier

7/9
U: Nothing
>60: Le Cellier

6/25:
U: Nothing
>60: Teppan Edo, Le Cellier, Garden Grill, Coral Reef

6/18:
U: Coral Reef, Le Cellier
>60: Teppan Edo

6/11:
U: Akersus, Coral Reef, Garden Grill, Le Cellier, Teppan Edo
>60: Via Napoli

6/4:
U: Akershus, Coral Reef, Garden Grill, Le Cellier, Teppan Edo, Via Napoli
>60: Le Chefs De France, Rose and Crown, San Angel, Tutto Italia


I'm gonna have to turn all this into a spreadsheet and try to keep it updated regularly.

So do we just PM you now when we need an ADR?

It doesn't have to be at 7 Eastern, does it???????

 

[pilferk]

So do we just PM you now when we need an ADR?

It doesn't have to be at 7 Eastern, does it???????

Please NO!!

But I'm a data geek, and this is a subject that's always interested me. I've just never dived into it.

With the online system, it makes it easier (obviously)...but I might start a thread (similar to the resort ressie thread...if the mods will let me) to show the results. I'll stick to Epcot on Saturdays at 6 PM with parties of 4, though. I think that's a representative sample....though without demo and volume info it's impossible to tell for sure. And it's an easy search (using location) because there are so many TS restaurants in the park.

 

[mcd2745]

The popular places and character meals are tough tickets, to be sure. And there may be busier times/free dining that makes things tougher, too. But USUALLY (meaning...most of the time, most of the year), it sure looks like (more and more) there are options, provided you're willing to make ADR's at a reasonable time frame.

We clearly got off on a tangent here, and that's fine. But going back to the OP, this was a thread about double-booking and measure put in place by Disney to attempt to crack down on it. My initial point was that a lesser window to make ADRs would go a long way toward reducing multiple-bookings at the most popular places. And let's face it, it's only an issue with the 15%-20% or so most popular places. Clearly, no one is double-booking Marakkesh and you can always get a seat there pretty much whenever you want. Everyone already knows this.

 

[pilferk]

We clearly got off on a tangent here, and that's fine. But going back to the OP, this was a thread about double-booking and measure put in place by Disney to attempt to crack down on it. My initial point was that a lesser window to make ADRs would go a long way toward reducing multiple-bookings at the most popular places. And let's face it, it's only an issue with the 15%-20% or so most popular places. Clearly, no one is double-booking Marakkesh and you can always get a seat there pretty much whenever you want. Everyone already knows this.

Again, I'm not so sure that assumption is true. It might be, but there's clearly no way to get any real data to support it.

And...why address the window when you can simply address the problem itself (as they have, it seems)? If this change prevents double bookings...haven't they pretty much solved that problem?

 

[Tricia1972]

Thanks for sampling that data for us, it's very interesting to read. Looks like the (arguably) hottest ticket in town, LeCellier, has decent availability at 30+ days out, despite the current 180 booking window.