No lessons on the Holocaust

[Poppinsme]

History lesson. The Sioux tribe (so named by the European settlers) is made up of Lakota, Dakota, Nakota tribes. Defensive??? You betcha! I KNOW my American History. And I have every right to talk about history that is not taught at schools but really did happen. And I also agree that history will repeat itself, it always does. Oh and I have a PHD in history.

 

[MrsPete]

The first high school I taught in had a semester long course just on the Holocaust that was part of the required history credit for juniors/seniors. It was an eye opener for the kids that is for sure.

A whole semester? While I whole-heartedly believe this topic is important and should be taught in history classes, to focus on this one event for an entire semester means that other extremely important historical events are ignored.

 

[basas]

History lesson. The Sioux tribe (so named by the European settlers) is made up of Lakota, Dakota, Nakota tribes. Defensive??? You betcha! I KNOW my American History. And I have every right to talk about history that is not taught at schools but really did happen. And I also agree that history will repeat itself, it always does. Oh and I have a PHD in history.

I'm not doubting your knowledge of history; however, I think I'm correct in believing what your husband went through was not restrictive just to the Sioux. That is why I used the all-inclusive term.

 

[Poppinsme]

Yeah...ok.

I refuse to use the term "Native American" because anyone born in America is a “Native American". Since when did "Indian" become 'racist' and for what reason exactly? It's still used on the news, as the name of reservations, by Indian tribes themselves, as the government term , and even is included in the name for their national museum opened only 3 years ago. Heck…better stay away from Disney because even they call them “Indians” on several attractions.

<<However, some American Indians have misgivings about the term Native American. Russell Means, a famous American Indian activist, opposes the term Native American because he believes it was imposed by the government without the consent of American Indians.[35] Furthermore, some American Indians question the term Native American because, they argue, it serves to ease the conscience of "white America" with regard to past injustices done to American Indians by effectively eliminating "Indians" from the present.[36] Still others (both Indians and non-Indians) argue that Native American is problematic because "native of" literally means "born in," so any person born in the Americas could be considered "native". However, very often the compound "Native American" will be capitalized in order to differentiate this intended meaning from others. Likewise, "native" (small 'n') can be further qualified by formulations such as "native-born" when the intended meaning is only to indicate place of birth or origin.
A 1996 survey[37] revealed that more American Indians in the United States still preferred American Indian to Native American. Nonetheless, most American Indians are comfortable with Indian, American Indian, and Native American, and the terms are now used interchangeably.[38] The continued usage of the traditional term is reflected in the name chosen for the National Museum of the American Indian, which opened in 2004 in Washington, D.C...>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

You know…the race card gets mighty old.

I assume being ‘anti illegal immigration’ is ‘racist’ too, right?

All I can say is wow. To your one quote from wikipedia I can give you 20 books to read on the history of "Native Americans" "Indians" or "Whatever".
Please some day sit down and have dinner with a "Native American".
My DH IS an American in every sense of the word and a proud Vietnam Vet to boot. We are also members of the Museum of the American Indian. My DH is a member of the Rosebud Reservation (thats in South Dakota) and has talked with Russell Means. My SIl was one of the first presidents of AIM. Race card??
I don't think so, just education babe.

 

[basas]

All I can say is wow. To your one quote from wikipedia I can give you 20 books to read on the history of "Native Americans" "Indians" or "Whatever".
Please some day sit down and have dinner with a "Native American".
My DH IS an American in every sense of the word and a proud Vietnam Vet to boot. We are also members of the Museum of the American Indian. My DH is a member of the Rosebud Reservation (thats in South Dakota) and has talked with Russell Means. My SIl was one of the first presidents of AIM. Race card??
I don't think so, just education babe.

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to imply...?

You seem to think I know no history or what the American Indians had to go through…? I know quite a bit of history…again…I’m just not sure what you’re trying to say(?).

I’m sure a dinner would be fascinating (hey…I accept all invitations!), but we’re talking over a ‘name’ here, where you seem to act as if I’m denying the brutality which the American Indians had to endure… I’m not..!?

 

[MrsPete]

I don't know...the paddle and the ruler kept kids under control at school (and did anyone really end up scarred for life as a result!?). Schools these days are…completely out of control. The more I hear, the more I’m shocked at what is going on at today’s schools. I really don’t know what the answer is…but I do think we’re heading more and more in the wrong direction. I really do think many education practices 20-30 years ago were much more effective.

The good old days theory -- a deeply rooted half-truth.

Remember that 20-30 years ago -- well, maybe more like 30-40 years ago -- our drop-out rate was astronomical. Minorities and women, in particular, simply weren't expected to go far. And special needs kids. Today we're making more of an effort to educate everyone; while that isn't always successful, it is better than considering a good third of the country's kids to be "throwaways", which is what happened in the past.

Don't forget, too, that schools are a reflection of what's happening in the larger society. It's not that schools have decided that spanking is inappropriate; it's a large, vocal part of society that's decided a swat on the behind is a crime. The bottom line: If you could magically bring a school from "back in the day" to the year 2007, it wouldn't suddenly change all the poor students into respectful, motivated life-long learners with an eye on a college degree -- they'd still be products of today's world.

 

[Poppinsme]

I think there is a difference between giving kids a smack, and beating/starving/raping/locking up students (or whatever else the American Indians had to go through as mentioned in your post). Common sense here...

I am answering this. Not everyone had a wonderful education experience and not all history of our own country is being taught in school. And I'm glad you know history. Hopefully from both sides. Peace. I make a delish fry bread, to bad we cant have dinner.

 

[MrsPete]

My DH was scarred for life. DH is Native American and was not allowed to go to public school. They sent them to boarding schools run by the catholics. The children were beaten, starved, locked in closets for 3 days, raped, and worked sometimes to death by the priests and nuns. Do they teach this in the history books? Oh yeah this happened up until the 1960s. He is 63 and still has nightmares about what they did and the scars on his body to prove it.

Child abuse is a terrible thing -- I'm not sure whether it's worse coming from an institution as you're describing, or whether it's worse coming from parents. Those who like to claim that "the good old days" were better like to pretend that these things didn't happen.

Still, what you're describing child abuse, not an educational topic -- it's a tangent.

 

[basas]

I am answering this. Not everyone had a wonderful education experience and not all history of our own country is being taught in school. And I'm glad you know history. Hopefully from both sides. Peace. I make a delish fry bread, to bad we cant have dinner.

Ok- I'm not sure where we got lost in our conversation!

All in all, all I was trying to say was this: In many cases, schools don't do anything for poor behavior/poor tests, etc these days. At our school, assignments are never 'too late' to be handed in. That means, you can hand in something weeks/months late and it still has to be graded because it's a 'learning experience'. I worry about how these kids are going to function in college and the real world! The real world has deadlines! The real world has passing/failing! The real world requires you to take responsibility for your actions! And yet, as the ‘real world’ gets more and more competitive, our schools get softer and softer to the point where in half the cases, teachers and administrators aren’t in charge, the kids are! Maybe some folks on here have had different/better experiences or deal with more ‘sane’ schools. But the ones around here have really gone off the wall lately. The high school even abolished detention recently as students might be ‘humiliated in front of the class’. I really don’t want to see what things will be like in 10-15 years!

Too bad about the dinner…I’d love some good Louisiana cooking!

 

[almburr]

I cant remember what the name was , It was a show on HBO about the holocaust. A school did the paper clip project. I thought wow, This school want to lear history.

 

[basas]

I cant remember what the name was , It was a show on HBO about the holocaust. A school did the paper clip project. I thought wow, This school want to lear history.

Oh I remember that too... I remember watching it but am struggling to remember much else...

 

[almburr]

I remember one part where they get an actual cattle car that was used to transport to the camps. The scene was a train pulling the old car on a trailer to the school and it was on Sept. 11. What a sad day.

 

[Planogirl]

I can't believe that there are educators out there that believe we should gloss over some historic events because they could be upsetting. That's real life and upsetting events are going to continue to occur. Will tomorrow's kids be so protected that they won't be able to handle anything?

It's not even just the Holocaust, slavery and the mistreatment of the American Indian. Will future generations ignore past wars? What about the nightmare of 9-11? This is mind-boggling.

 

[BabyPiglet]

If they don't want to offend the students or make them sad, they wouldn't be teaching anything. Heck, they wouldn't have school at all!

How dumb.

 

[crcormier]

When will the babyfication of children end?

 

[LukenDC]

I recall reading about a recent survey in which a large percentage of people in the UK thought that the Holocaust could happen again. Now we know why!

There is HUGE anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe and the Muslims should be backing the teaching of the Holocaust. If European genocide happens again, the Muslims will be the likely victims.

 

[basas]

I recall reading about a recent survey in which a large percentage of people in the UK thought that the Holocaust could happen again. Now we know why!

There is HUGE anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe and the Muslims should be backing the teaching of the Holocaust. If European genocide happens again, the Muslims will be the likely victims.

It is a huge problem over there. Just on Sunday CNN had a special on Muslims in the UK ("The War Within"). It's one of several shows I've seen on the problem over there. Interesting if anything else.

 

[Ariel Mae]

At my Uni, the history teacher pretty much jumped over the Holocaust, sending us straight into the Cold War.
I thought it was a bit absurd. The Holocaust is an important part of history, especially my history, as a Jewish ancestor.
We're quickly running through the Civil Rights Movement, also. It's sad.

 

[mrsltg]

The Holocaust is an important part of history, especially my history, as a Jewish ancestor.

No, it's HUMAN history. Your ancestory doesn't matter. 12,000,000 people died as a direct result of the Holocaust. Half were Jews, which means 6m people who died were not. It takes away from the enormity of evil to say the Holocaust meant more to one group than another. It didn't and it doesn't. All it does is give people who don't like Jews a chance to deny the entire thing and wipe out the lives of 12 million people all over again.

There is HUGE anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe and the Muslims should be backing the teaching of the Holocaust. If European genocide happens again, the Muslims will be the likely victims.

I disagree with this, also. The Muslim population is/will be overtaking the European continent. I don't believe it's the Muslims who will need to worry about genocide. All people need to learn. No one is exempt from the possibility of another genocide.

 

[Ariel Mae]

No, it's HUMAN history. Your ancestry doesn't matter.

"The Holocaust is an important part of history..."

Clearly, I said such, incorporating how I felt because of my ancestry. My ancestry matters quite a bit to myself.

The Holocaust is a very important aspect of history. Period. It needs to be taught.

We learn from our mistakes, right? If we're not taught our mistakes, we cannot learn from them.

It takes away from the enormity of evil to say the Holocaust meant more to one group than another.

Excuse me? It meant a whole lot more to those who had families effected by such than those that didn't.

All it does is give people who don't like Jews a chance to deny the entire thing and wipe out the lives of 12 million people all over again.

You can't deny fact. It's there, right in front of your face. I'm sorry, but it happened, it effects me personally, even though it's in the past.

It doesn't do the above. Teaching it? Provides a sense of knowledge, and reasons to why it shouldn't happen again.

I don't see why we're bending to the Muslims. So what if we offend them? Everything eventually offends someone. If we had to take away all things that offended, we'd be left with food and water...probably not even that.

Let's take away lessons on the Civil Rights Movement because it offends some White Supremiscts, then. (Spelling).