No Flash Pictures Please --- Redux

[Funball]

WELL i can ask them in spanish or some other language if they prefer.. either way i will tell them to put the camera away or its going in the water!

 

[pixiewings71]

I think that people tend to respond better when they feel that a request by another person is made because the other person needs help and not because the other person is trying to order them around. For example, I think a person may respond well to, "Excuse me, but I have a TERRIBLE migraine and the flash is hurting my head really bad...would you mind terribly turning the flash off please?" But they may respond like jerks if you say in an authoritative voice, "Camera's are not allowed on dark rides." I'm not saying it is right, but people tend to go on the defensive when something is put to them in an authoritative manner by somebody they do not see as having any right to dictate rules to them. Honestly, if somebody were to tell me something in an authoritative manner, I would probably feel hostile as well, especially if I was unaware of the rule. I find that you catch more bees with honey and that being nice and appealing to a person's better nature is far more effective than telling them what they should do.

I think that you guys should do your best to keep this bumped so more people see it. Frankly, I have found the thread to be educating. I never realized that flashes bothered people or caused migraines before. They don't bother me, and I never realized that something like that could cause real health issues for some people. I would guess that many people are not aware of this fact. Like I said before, I don't use flash, but I've never been bothered by people who do. I've gone to hundreds of concerts and people always take flash pictures (even though I frequently try to tell people that their pics will look MUCH better without the flash, but nobody ever believes me ). Maybe I'm just used to it after all these years. But it really is sad that some people's days are ruined by the flashes.

It's too bad that Disney doesn't enforce the rules. But then they really don't enforce many rules. I have seen people smoking and walking right by CMs and the CMs do nothing about it. Drive me nuts! Same with heely's. They aren't allowed, but I've seen many kids put themselves or others in danger because they are flying low in a populated area. Sometimes CMs tell them they are not allowed, but other times I've seen CMs walk right by and do nothing.

Ok the first time they did it I said politely "no flash photos please" with a big smile as I turned around and faced them. I was very nice, I was very polite. I was non-confrontational. The first flash took place where they all do of course, in the Bayou. I knew it could be a problem for me, I had other indicators that I could get a migraine and I went to DL anyway, we were on vacation and I didn't feel like hiding in my hotel room, at that point my head wasn't hurting, I just had other indicators that it could happen, not that it would for sure. When they continued to take flash photos I looked at DBF and said "oh honey, this ride won't end well for me" I tried to anticipate and close and cover my eyes but it didn't work, it seemed like every time I tried to cover myself they got louder and more apt to use the flash. By the time we were in the scene with the gold room my head was hurting a lot, at that point I didn't know whether I should cover my eyes or my ears as both points of "contact" were causing me pain, the shrieking and the flashing were both contributing to the pain in my head, which was steadily getting worse. At that point DBF grabbed my face, put it in his chest and said to them "My GF is getting a migraine from the flashing of your camera, can you please put it away so she can feel better?" at which point they said something rude (but in another language so we have no idea what it was, it was something you could tell was rude from the way they said it, you know, the tone, the manner, the hand gesture that accompanied it) and they STILL took MORE and MORE flash photos and screamed and yelled and shrieked as loud as they could. I was crying by the burning town scene and they could have cared less and yes, I'm sure they saw me crying, I was trying to enjoy the ride, was wiping my eyes and looking around and then BAM another flash and another blinding pain with a round of tears, tears that I have problems controlling when I have migraines that bad. So yes, we were polite but by the time we got off the ride and I was in such pain I could hardly stand to get OFF the boat we were done being nice...well DBF was done being nice, I was just being at that point. I was barely coherent by then and without DBF there I'm not quite sure what I would have done. the pain was extreme by that point.

yes, bright lights in an otherwise dark place can cause migraines, as can flashing lights, certain smells, certain jerking around motions and there are quite a few other triggers for me as well. I've gone to DL plenty of times with the knowledge that I could get a migraine but that was the only time I've ever been hit with one, and honestly it was one of the worst I've ever had, and I've had migraines for 20+ years. Also keep in mind that this was only 1 time out of 20+ visits to DL in 2 years that gave me a migraine. I am aware that it's rare to have flash bring on a migraine but it did happen to me so I am also aware that it can and will happen. I'm glad you don't use your flash Orchid, I wish others were as aware of the "rules" as you were.

Are you joking? They do not respond to “excuse me can you not use to your camera flash I have a migraine”..no . tey just keep doing it…

yup, kept right on doing it. DBF almost did grab their camera, he was going to take it and give it back after the ride but I was aware enough to know that if he did there would be a fight, probably ON the boat and that would have really sucked for my migraine so I convinced him not to do that. lol

 

[The Orchid]

Pixie, that sounds absolutely horrible. I'm so glad I don't know what you are going through, it sounds like pure hell. I've known a few people who get them and I know that a lot of things trigger them. A friend of mine said that certain foods will actually trigger hers. I think she said cheddar cheese and chocolate and cola were all bad for her. I HATE headaches and I never even get very bad ones. Even a little headache makes me cranky and miserable. I can take just about any pain as long as it isn't in my head. I cannot even imagine what you must go through. I wish there was some easy answer. I can imagine the desire to take the camera and toss it into the water. Unfortunately, the one doing the camera tossing would be the one escorted out of the park and not the one breaking the rules in the first place. It's very unfair. I sincerely hope you never have to go through that again. This may sound like a really stupid question, but can you take sun glasses with you for protection if somebody starts the incessant flashing? Do you think that would help? You may not get much out of the ride with sunglasses on, but at least maybe you could be spared the extreme pain?

 

[pixiewings71]

I always have sunglasses on my person, no matter the weather, no matter the time of day I always have them. But unfortunately in that situation it would not have helped because they were intermittent flashes and not a steady light. There was also the shrieking and screaming occurring behind me and that can't be helped by sunglasses. LOL I also can't ride Space Mtn every trip because the motion and the lights could be a migraine trigger, luckily they haven't been but the combination of the two can do it. Luckily I don't have many food triggers, I know a lot of people have them and they are generally cheese, chocolate and wine but I'm grateful that I can ingest all of those items (because they are my favorites) with little problems, now if I drink too much wine.....LOL But that's not a migraine, it's a hangover. LOL

That was how I convinced DBF to not make any more moves towards them, they were already behaving in a rude and confrontational way (even tho we were not) and I could just see us losing our brand new AP's (we had just activated them that week, we were there for DBF's bday) and not being able to come back ever. He didn't much like that idea so I just suffered thru it. Oh and he didn't want to toss it in the water, he just wanted to take it from them until the end of the ride, he was planning to hand it back when we got off. I just knew that wasn't going to go well, not with his temper and not with their nasty attitudes. Luckily if I'm crying he normally gives me what I want, well unless we are fighting.

I'm glad you don't get migraines, they are absolutely horrible to deal with.

 

[Funball]

just a warning if you are on POTC with me or any other ride, if i see your camera go off, i will take it. besides i need a new camera anyway!!

 

[Gisele]

I need a camera period. So please funball snag a camera for me too, while your at it.
Peerrty please .......

 

[Master Mason]

just a warning if you are on POTC with me or any other ride, if i see your camera go off, i will take it. besides i need a new camera anyway!!

First off, I totally agree about no flash pictures and have spent large amounts of money to be able to take pictures on dark rides without them.

But this statement is simply rediculious. You're not going to take anyone's camera so why make such a statement.

ETA; what I wish would happen is that Disney started escorting a few of the offenders out of the park. Word would spread pretty quickly that it's not allowed. And I really don't care if mom get's kicked out infront of her kids. Good learning experience for them.

 

[Gisele]

I most profusely support the previous sentiment! I would still love to see someone though, throw the offenders camera et al overboard. With perhaps said offender going into the water as well. One can fantasize.

 

[The Orchid]

I most profusely support the previous sentiment! I would still love to see someone though, throw the offenders camera et al overboard. With perhaps said offender going into the water as well. One can fantasize.

I agree! It would be particularly satisfying to see a rude, offensive, loud, obnoxious guest start a fight with a rude, offensive, loud, obnoxious flash photographer and watch the non flasher throw the flasher's camera into the water. Then you could sit back and watch both jerks be escorted out of the park! I'd hate to see a nice person get thrown out for losing it, so for this scenario to be perfect, the camera thrower has to be as bad as the flasher!

 

[The Orchid]

First off, I totally agree about no flash pictures and have spent large amounts of money to be able to take pictures on dark rides without them.

But this statement is simply rediculious. You're not going to take anyone's camera so why make such a statement.

ETA; what I wish would happen is that Disney started escorting a few of the offenders out of the park. Word would spread pretty quickly that it's not allowed. And I really don't care if mom get's kicked out infront of her kids. Good learning experience for them.

She's just venting frustration. No harm in that!

I don't think I would want to see them kick anybody out of the park for minor violations. They would end up kicking a third of their guests out. Think about how many people break the rule! Besides the flash photographers, you're not permitted to take in professional cameras (though many people do!), you have people who smoke in areas that aren't allowed (I'd like to personally kick them out), people who sneak certain foods or beverages in, kids in heelys, people wearing shirts with offensive words or people who use offensive language. I read the DLR rules the other day and was surprised that I break a rule every single time I go. We take a bag into the park to keep medical supplies and we use zip ties to secure it to the wheelchair. I was shocked to find that it is against the rules to take those zip ties in. I'll continue to do it because it is the best way to assure that nobody takes the bag when we are on rides and honestly, CMs check my bag every single time we go into the park and they see the zip ties and say nothing. But really, it's amazing how easy it is to break a rule and not even know you are doing so. So it's really not practical to kick people out for every little violation. They'd be sending a third of the guests home every day and that would result in very bad press and far fewer guests to spend money at DLR.

I think that many people don't realize that flash is against the rules, nor do many people realize that flash really bothers other people. It doesn't bother me at all and I had no idea that it caused so much grief to people. It would be a shame to kick people out for something like that. If DLR were smart, however, they would take violators' cameras for the day and check them. Sometimes concert venues do this. If somebody gets caught using flash photography, the camera is taken and security checks it and the offender can pick up his or her camera on the way out. It's AMAZING how fast people put those cameras away when they realize that cameras are being taken! If DLR did this, I think word would spread in a hurry and people would knock it off with the flash. It's a very simple solution to the problem. A few strategically posted signs letting people know they are in danger of losing their camera for the day and the problem is solved.

 

[Master Mason]

She's just venting frustration. No harm in that!

I don't think I would want to see them kick anybody out of the park for minor violations. They would end up kicking a third of their guests out. Think about how many people break the rule! Besides the flash photographers, you're not permitted to take in professional cameras (though many people do!), you have people who smoke in areas that aren't allowed (I'd like to personally kick them out), people who sneak certain foods or beverages in, kids in heelys, people wearing shirts with offensive words or people who use offensive language. I read the DLR rules the other day and was surprised that I break a rule every single time I go. We take a bag into the park to keep medical supplies and we use zip ties to secure it to the wheelchair. I was shocked to find that it is against the rules to take those zip ties in. I'll continue to do it because it is the best way to assure that nobody takes the bag when we are on rides and honestly, CMs check my bag every single time we go into the park and they see the zip ties and say nothing. But really, it's amazing how easy it is to break a rule and not even know you are doing so. So it's really not practical to kick people out for every little violation. They'd be sending a third of the guests home every day and that would result in very bad press and far fewer guests to spend money at DLR.

I think that many people don't realize that flash is against the rules, nor do many people realize that flash really bothers other people. It doesn't bother me at all and I had no idea that it caused so much grief to people. It would be a shame to kick people out for something like that. If DLR were smart, however, they would take violators' cameras for the day and check them. Sometimes concert venues do this. If somebody gets caught using flash photography, the camera is taken and security checks it and the offender can pick up his or her camera on the way out. It's AMAZING how fast people put those cameras away when they realize that cameras are being taken! If DLR did this, I think word would spread in a hurry and people would knock it off with the flash. It's a very simple solution to the problem. A few strategically posted signs letting people know they are in danger of losing their camera for the day and the problem is solved.

A couple of things, The announce before you leave the loading station on every single dark ride that flash photography is not allowed, and then at times they tell it again to people over the loud speaker. If you don't know that Flash photography is not allowed, then they had better be deaf, because there is no other excuse. So no I would have no sympathy for someone getting kicked out for taking flash pictures.

Second, the no professional equipement thing is completely arbitrary, they have no standard against which to enforce that rule, I spent over an hour sitting in the office in town hall one time while the supervisor tried to explain why one camera was "profesional" and the other wasn't, the problem with it, was he had no clue what constituted "profesional" equipment and what didn't. By the end he had admitted it, and also admitted that the rule is simply arbitrary, it is also worthless, because, the majority of people that have "professional" equipment, aren't professionals. They are people like me that bought the best stuff they could afford, inorder to take those non flash pictures on dark rides.

What really through him for a loop was when I showed him that the little camera he had, had much more zooming than the great big 70-200 lens that I was carrying.

And as a side note, look at the rules on Strollers next time you look at the rules you'll be shocked.

 

[The Orchid]

A couple of things, The announce before you leave the loading station on every single dark ride that flash photography is not allowed, and then at times they tell it again to people over the loud speaker. If you don't know that Flash photography is not allowed, then they had better be deaf, because there is no other excuse. So no I would have no sympathy for someone getting kicked out for taking flash pictures.

Second, the no professional equipement thing is completely arbitrary, they have no standard against which to enforce that rule, I spent over an hour sitting in the office in town hall one time while the supervisor tried to explain why one camera was "profesional" and the other wasn't, the problem with it, was he had no clue what constituted "profesional" equipment and what didn't. By the end he had admitted it, and also admitted that the rule is simply arbitrary, it is also worthless, because, the majority of people that have "professional" equipment, aren't professionals. They are people like me that bought the best stuff they could afford, inorder to take those non flash pictures on dark rides.

What really through him for a loop was when I showed him that the little camera he had, had much more zooming than the great big 70-200 lens that I was carrying.

And as a side note, look at the rules on Strollers next time you look at the rules you'll be shocked.

We're obviously going to disagree on this. I believe that when trying to change behavior issues, the best way to go about it is to find a discipline action that changes the behavior with the least amount of consequence. To do otherwise is punishment/revenge. This is why I like the idea of posting signs (and following through which DLR unfortunately NEVER does for any of their rules) stating that people using flash will have their cameras checked. I truly believe that would solve most of the problem. Some people might try to sneak a picture in here and there, but the ones that are snapping pictures nonstop will not likely do it. I just don't agree with kicking somebody out of the park for such a minor violation. It doesn't just ruin the vacation for the violator, by the way. The family also suffers.

My daughter's flash once went off accidentally. It was a new camera and she messed up and the flash went off. She was embarrassed and put the camera away until after we got off the ride, then we figured out where her mistake was and it didn't happen again. Seriously, would you kick an 18 year old kid out of the park because her freaking flash accidentally went off?

As for strollers, people violate those rules all the time! They get away with taking strollers in the park that are too big. They put their kids in the strollers on the tram after it starts moving. They use the things as weapons to mow down anything or anybody in their paths. DLR never kicks them out of the park for it. There are tons of unenforced rules.

The one I hate the most is heelys. They seem to be less popular these days. At least I didn't see any last November. But in the past, I've had a lot of problems with terrors in heelys running into people. One year my mother had just gotten knee replacement surgery and some demon spawn was flying towards her at a high speed. I stepped between my mother and the demon spawn just on time to prevent him from mowing her down. The kid went airborne and landed hard, to which the parents pitched a fit. I asked them if I should have let the demon spawn run my mother over and they said, "Yes, nothing justifies hurting a child." I didn't hurt the demon spawn, by the way. I merely stood between the demon spawn and my mother. He would have crashed had he run her over, just as he did when he ran into me. Only difference is that I was strong enough to not be run over; my mother wasn't!

The problem with DLR is that they have a big list of rules, but they do not have any consequence listed for violation of the rules. People break rules that aren't enforced. While it's relatively rare, some smokers don't even blush when they light up in line or standing next to an attraction. Other people wear trashy clothes and still others cuss like drunken sailors. I don't see the point in posting rules if they aren't enforced. That is the real problem here.

 

[Master Mason]

one accidental flash, doesn't equal continually shooting even when told to stop over the loud speaker.

 

[pixiewings71]

Actually Orchid, one of our members was in DL not too long ago, his DD was run into by a stroller pusher so badly that she needed stitches in her ankle......they DID kick the stroller pusher out because our member followed her and called for security, she was removed from the park. So it seems they are paying more attention to complaints.

As for your DD18's flash going off no I wouldn't want her kicked out for that, I've done that myself when I had a new camera. BUT I would want people who acted the way they did in my case removed from the parks, yes, the whole family should have been removed from the park, especially after we asked them to stop. A single offense shouldn't be punishable but the repeat offenders absolutely should be removed.

 

[The Orchid]

Actually Orchid, one of our members was in DL not too long ago, his DD was run into by a stroller pusher so badly that she needed stitches in her ankle......they DID kick the stroller pusher out because our member followed her and called for security, she was removed from the park. So it seems they are paying more attention to complaints.

As for your DD18's flash going off no I wouldn't want her kicked out for that, I've done that myself when I had a new camera. BUT I would want people who acted the way they did in my case removed from the parks, yes, the whole family should have been removed from the park, especially after we asked them to stop. A single offense shouldn't be punishable but the repeat offenders absolutely should be removed.

That is AWFUL! Omg! See, I know people with strollers use them as weapons because I saw a thread on the other community board a few years ago where a few people admitted they did this. They got chewed up and spit out and then tried to back pedal when they realized that most people didn't think their behavior was cute. But they did admit to that kind of behavior which is MESSED UP! I'm glad that person got kicked out. But honestly, that is overt violence and I would hope that DLR would have a no tolerance policy to violence.

Also, that person who was harassing you with the camera was also very aggressive and absolutely should have been removed. Intentionally causing pain or harassing another guest absolutely should result in removal in my opinion. It's about intention. Accidents are one thing, but intentionally harming somebody is another thing entirely. If I had been on your boat and seen that happen, I would have jumped in on your behalf without hesitation. Aggressive people have no business at DLR.

I just cannot believe some people. To injure a child with a stroller is disgusting. I will never understand what makes people do things like that. None of us like it when there are big crowds, but to resort to injuring a child is incredibly pathetic.

 

[Gisele]

I agree with all of the above, and support these endorsements.

 

[Funball]

I need a camera period. So please funball snag a camera for me too, while your at it.
Peerrty please .......

totally! i will have you in mind!

I most profusely support the previous sentiment! I would still love to see someone though, throw the offenders camera et al overboard. With perhaps said offender going into the water as well. One can fantasize.

thank you thank you.. and i didn't say i would throw the camera overboard did i ? i would take it for the rest of the ride and then give it back--but i did see once somoene grab someone else's camera and chuck it over the side..

I agree! It would be particularly satisfying to see a rude, offensive, loud, obnoxious guest start a fight with a rude, offensive, loud, obnoxious flash photographer and watch the non flasher throw the flasher's camera into the water. Then you could sit back and watch both jerks be escorted out of the park! I'd hate to see a nice person get thrown out for losing it, so for this scenario to be perfect, the camera thrower has to be as bad as the flasher!

thanks orchid! i am bad, but no flash don't mean jack to someone people . they still do it!!!!!!

Actually Orchid, one of our members was in DL not too long ago, his DD was run into by a stroller pusher so badly that she needed stitches in her ankle......they DID kick the stroller pusher out because our member followed her and called for security, she was removed from the park. So it seems they are paying more attention to complaints.

As for your DD18's flash going off no I wouldn't want her kicked out for that, I've done that myself when I had a new camera. BUT I would want people who acted the way they did in my case removed from the parks, yes, the whole family should have been removed from the park, especially after we asked them to stop. A single offense shouldn't be punishable but the repeat offenders absolutely should be removed.

i know i totally heard about this!!! not good p-wings!!! im soo sorry!!! again the stroller pushers have no resepect either! and the camera flashers just don't plain listen. i am sorry that mason was offended by my statment, but you know we all can agreee to disagree. and thanks gusy for backin me up!! you all are the best! gisele you too!

 

[Funball]

I agree with all of the above, and support these endorsements.

u rock!! HAAHAAAA

 

[Funball]

people who sneak certain foods or beverages in

ye orchid good point! omg, you know how many times i have heard friends(i dont hang with them anymore) tell me that they would sneak vodka in a water bottle cause it looks like water, and then they add it to there beverages in DL.. yeah stuff like that blows my mind..and again the flash photographers DO NOT LISTEN ! i have been on HM may times had the ride stopped becuase of exesive flash photography! did they stop? no..

and p-wings gets headaches from it and it hurts my eyes..

 

[pixiewings71]

That is AWFUL! Omg! See, I know people with strollers use them as weapons because I saw a thread on the other community board a few years ago where a few people admitted they did this. They got chewed up and spit out and then tried to back pedal when they realized that most people didn't think their behavior was cute. But they did admit to that kind of behavior which is MESSED UP! I'm glad that person got kicked out. But honestly, that is overt violence and I would hope that DLR would have a no tolerance policy to violence.

Also, that person who was harassing you with the camera was also very aggressive and absolutely should have been removed. Intentionally causing pain or harassing another guest absolutely should result in removal in my opinion. It's about intention. Accidents are one thing, but intentionally harming somebody is another thing entirely. If I had been on your boat and seen that happen, I would have jumped in on your behalf without hesitation. Aggressive people have no business at DLR.

I just cannot believe some people. To injure a child with a stroller is disgusting. I will never understand what makes people do things like that. None of us like it when there are big crowds, but to resort to injuring a child is incredibly pathetic.

Well the child who was run into wasn't a "child" but she was Jack's child. LOL His kids are all adults but they still go to DLR as a family. And thank you for saying you would have jumped in on my behalf, I really appreciate that very much. We did have others on the boat giving me well wishes as we were all getting off, it did help me feel better but not quite enough. And on the way to First Aid we had quite a few CM's and others ask if I needed help, that was really nice to experience.