No Codes - More Money for Disney???

[EEyorelover22]

Disney has to have stats of how many rooms are converted after ap rates come out. If they don't, they are not a very smart business. With the technology that's around they must have some idea of how many rooms are being held hoping for AP rates. But then again, the company as a whole does make some strange moves at times.

 

[EEyorelover22]

Personally, I'm surprised that the cost of gas hasn't put a crimp in travel. If it persists think people will keep their original plans for this summer but, think long & hard about second trips.

This will impact our second trip because paying $2000 for 4 people for airplane tickets is something I just cannot justify so if airfare doesn't come down we won't go in December And, it's not coming down, it goes up every day when I check with multiple stops and in the winter flying from the mid-West, I just don't need that kind of trouble!! Flying north to Minnesota to get to Orlando doesn't sound like fun to me! We did that one year in an ice storm and I'm not going down that runway again.

June: we are going, it's paid for and I'm paying rack rates, but I also know we cannot go back for at least two years and probably longer so I figure we should go and stay where we want and have a good time. Life is too short and if we can afford it and don't go into debt doing it then we'll go.

 

[LakeAriel]

Of course I know that being an AP holder doesn't guarantee room discounts, but just like the OP, we consider the room discounts of great importance when deciding to purchase/renew APs. I'm going in a little over a week and I did get an AP rate. I wanted to go in June instead, but due to the lack of codes, we're sticking with May. If we could wait until June, we could go a few days longer. And, we would have more money to spend.

If Disney continues to offer less and less in the way of AP room discounts, we will certainly reconsider renewing our AP. I guess we need to hurry because ours expire 7/2/06. We haven't decided if we're going to renew or not. We really have to look at it this way. Is it worth the $399 renewal rate per person (just me and DH). We have to determine how many days we think we will visit within the year time frame, compare it to a MYW ticket with the Park Hopper Option (I have to have that option or I would be miserable) and just do the math.

We typically go 2-3 times a year an on average we spend 14-18 days a year. That said, the AP's do save us a little money. I did the math once and I just can't remember the numbers right now. The reason we go so often is because of the AP's. So I for one think this isn't a good business decision on Disney's part. It doesn't make sense. Once we enter the property we don't leave. We spend a boatload of money and we keep coming back. Repeat customers are a staple of any successful business. I think they should continue to offer discounts on rooms no matter what! We folks will come back and back and back. Newbies may not ever step foot again on Disney property.

But, it doesn't matter what we think because they will do what they will do and honestly we will all still go. And, like another poster said, we're assuming there will be no codes for the summer. That may not be the case.

PamNC

I don't understand this. If you save money (18 days a year is a BIG savings) why would you not be thrilled to have an AP? My AP allows me to hop over to Epcot just for a meal. If I plan on one trip within a year I do not get an AP. More then one trip it's a great deal! It's a park admission ticket. If a code is available on the room it's a bonus, not an expectation!

 

[cobbler]

Ah one of the reasons why I LOVE DVC. I don't have to play this code game anymore. It can get quite stressful at times.

And we do buy AP's for admission. Everyone in the family had one last year because we got 3 trips out of them. This year I will be the only AP holder as I am going on an extra trip with mom. The rest will have 10 day no expire because of how our trips are laid out they can get 3 trips (in more than a year, by just a couple of weeks) out of them.

The perks are gravy but I don't count on them

 

[bicker]

We can all speculate about whether AP discounts during times of high occupancy would eventually resort in more profit for the company or not.

However, one thing we know for sure is that Disney is fanatical about measuring their guests. I'm sure they know, to the penny, the money that the average AP holder brings in to the resort, and I'm sure they've surveyed the heck out of their AP population to see how important resort discounts are in the general scheme.

If offering discounts eventually makes them more money, they will offer them. If not offering discounts makes them more money, they won't. We might wish that the company made the most money with policies that happen to benefit us individually, but as sad as it is to say it: wishing doesn't make it so.

Yes, you're completely correct. Disney knows how much providing benefits to Annual Passholders is worth, and Disney's actions does make it seem like Annual Passholders have lost a little bit of their luster as customers.

 

[keishashadow]

That is truly a chunk of change for airfare! Glad we have tix for June & Oct. in hand. Hope the rates get better!

We plan very far ahead (try to secure res. @ DVC @ 11 months for bulk of trip, then need 2 or 3 extra days somewhere). Starting to think about avoiding June next year if no codes are released & sweltering in July/Aug.

This will impact our second trip because paying $2000 for 4 people for airplane tickets is something I just cannot justify so if airfare doesn't come down we won't go in December And, it's not coming down, it goes up every day when I check with multiple stops and in the winter flying from the mid-West, I just don't need that kind of trouble!! Flying north to Minnesota to get to Orlando doesn't sound like fun to me! We did that one year in an ice storm and I'm not going down that runway again.

June: we are going, it's paid for and I'm paying rack rates, but I also know we cannot go back for at least two years and probably longer so I figure we should go and stay where we want and have a good time. Life is too short and if we can afford it and don't go into debt doing it then we'll go.

 

[cobbler]

Yes, you're completely correct. Disney knows how much providing benefits to Annual Passholders is worth, and Disney's actions does make it seem like Annual Passholders have lost a little bit of their luster as customers.

I saw something similar to this posted last year when the BRP rolled out. In so many different variations. They did away with that, probably due to a lot of AP holder complaints.

They have added AP perks though, discounts on MVMCP and MNSSHP tickets (although this year the number of days is much smaller) but still.

Overall I wouldn't be so quick to jump until nothing at all has been released and it is known that there won't be.

 

[Grumpy'n'Goofy]

But, it doesn't matter what we think because they will do what they will do and honestly we will all still go.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[bicker]

They did away with that, probably due to a lot of AP holder complaints.

However, they haven't actually replaced it with anything. In essence, it looks, now, that BRP was a bone thrown to AP holders, nothing more. I believe the number of perqs taken away from AP holders far out-number and out-value the perqs given. That pretty much clarifies where AP holders now stand in terms of contribution to the enterprise.

 

[keishashadow]

Agree 100%...IMO, between gas prices & perc reductions, there might be a drop in overall new APs sold. Do think there was a contingent that bought them expressly on the assumption that they'd be able to get substantial room discounts based on previous policy. Problem w/promos & percs is people begin to expect them, either in current form or some variation. Disgruntled tourists do have other options to pursue in Orlando.

We're Disney stockholders & do expect a return on our investment, however, WDW seems to be focusing on pkg disc.; not AP ones...hope they don't alienate their core customer base.

As for the discounted special event tix...the MNSSHP & MVMCP AP dates offered were few & far between. I like having my t's crossed. Can't imagine waiting until a few weeks ahead of time to make room res. or buy discounted day-of special event tix using DVC either.

However, they haven't actually replaced it with anything. In essence, it looks, now, that BRP was a bone thrown to AP holders, nothing more. I believe the number of perqs taken away from AP holders far out-number and out-value the perqs given. That pretty much clarifies where AP holders now stand in terms of contribution to the enterprise.

 

[Ub_Iwerks]

Isn't Disney trying to win over new repeating customers, while the AP holders are already loyal customers? I do think they might still release dates, but Disney does everything based on how much money they make. It would be nice if they offered more rates and perks to AP holders, but it's all a numbers game. And Disney is definitely the one who is winning. I decided to let my AP expire and get 10 non-expire park hoppers instead. At least for this year. Next year may be a different story.

 

[cobbler]

I believe the number of perqs taken away from AP holders far out-number and out-value the perqs given.

Just curious, what perks have they taken away? I was an AP holder in 04/05. Let it lapse because of the length of time between visits from 05/06. So I don't go back that far.

 

[bicker]

Agree 100%...IMO, between gas prices & perc reductions, there might be a drop in overall new APs sold. Do think there was a contingent that bought them expressly on the assumption that they'd be able to get substantial room discounts based on previous policy.

I am sure there were some, but I'm not sure that tells the whole story. What seems evident is that Disney found a more profitable way of filling those rooms.

It does make sense, based on my personal buying habits as an AP holder and as a non-AP holder. If they can get people to visit who wouldn't normally have visited WDW that year at all they'll be better off, since, playing the odds, those folks will likely buy more souvenirs in that specific week than an AP holder occupying that room would have purchased in that specific week (and all other aspects would be the same). So indeed, filling rooms with guests for whom this is their only Disney experience of the year could be much more advantageous than filling the room with guests returning for the fourth or fifth visit in a year.

Problem w/promos & percs is people begin to expect them, either in current form or some variation.

That actually wasn't as much of a problem until the last twenty years or so. The Internet has a lot to do with it.

We're Disney stockholders & do expect a return on our investment, however, WDW seems to be focusing on pkg disc.; not AP ones...hope they don't alienate their core customer base.

What is the core customer base though? As AP holders we liked to think we were. We compared ourselves to business travelers on airlines: We were few, but we were "loyal". The problem with that logic is that business travelers paid two or three times as much per flight segment as compared to leisure travelers, while as AP holders we generally ended up paying less per day than regular passholders.

If "core" means the foundation of profitability (which is a pretty likely definition in the business world), I think a strong argument can be made that Disney's core customer base is split between families visiting WDW for a one-time "trip of a lifetime", families that visit WDW once every few years, and business conventions. All three of those groups are substantial contributors to the bottom line, and I suspect that all three far outweight AP holders in terms of importance to Disney's bottom-line, long-term. I'm not sure it has always been that way, but it sure looks that way today

 

[bicker]

Just curious, what perks have they taken away?

Read Boomhauer's message -- the first message in this thread.

 

[cobbler]

Read Boomhauer's message -- the first message in this thread.

Ok, I am missing something because it doesn't say that anything has been taken away. Just that people are thinking that there won't be a code released and as of now that has yet to be determined.

You mentioned that the perks they are giving don't make up for what they have taken away, being a fairly new passholder I was wondering what perks have been taken away.

 

[bicker]

I see you're missing the point. AP holders are upset because the biggest advantage (aside from unlimited admission) that they used to enjoy they're no longer receiving, that being reliable provision of the most generous hotel room discounts available. I remember getting 40% off deluxe rates one year, and I know that there were even better discounts in the past than that. So what AP holders are concerned about, as Boomhauer indicated, is the loss of these discounts.

I hope that clears it up for you.

 

[cobbler]

Ok, that I see. I thought you were talking about actual doing away with certain perks.

Yes in 04 we did receive a % off our room. I spent 49/night for value resort. Last year it was a $$ amount off. We spent 10/night more on a moderate than we would have the previous year due to the flat $$ amount off and not the %.

This year the discounts don't even look as good as they did last year.

I think there is some good and bad in doing this. Like previously stated people come to expect these things. How many posts have been asked or stated that you don't need an AP to get the room discount, only when you check in. And for a while even that was sketchy because people were posting saying that they were never asked. So those that like to scam got the AP rate, went to check in and never were asked for one, (or hoping as such) and then never purchased the AP.

I think that is why Disney implimented its BRP to do away with that. Well there must have been a huge outcry (I for one didn't like it because of the non-refundable deposit, that and my room rate with AAA was only 2/night more why would I even go with BRP?)

So it could be Disney's way of weeding out those that only get the AP for the room discount, make it less desirable and make it for its intended purchase, for park admission. Although even of those one time trip folks who get the AP for the room are still spending a lot on a pass that they will only use once its still beneficial.

Really it seems like a double edged sword, darned if you do, darned if you don't.

 

[Luv2Roam]

I am glad I don't have to play the AP rates waiting game any longer.
It has been probably 3 - 4 years ago when we vacationed at WDW the end of May, during Memorial Day week. (FQ was just officially being reopened after their refurb the day we left.)
We took that vacation on a general room only discount. AP discounts were not available, even though I booked early that year.
So AP discounts were not ALWAYS a given, at least since we have been AP-ers.
But I think most of us (we own FL PAP) feel we should get a little better discounts than the average ticket holder. And in general we do. But many of the benefits you need to be here to enjoy. (Like soft openings, etc)
As an AP holder I think we should get better AP discounts too. We are also Premium AP-ers for USO. It's nice to have a meal discount no matter where and what time. And their AP-ers have a few perks here and there above regular ticket holders. But like Disney, you have to be here and be around to enjoy them.

I think we all can see new Disney marketing ideas. It seems to be an ever changing stategy. Just look at the new WDW marketing for families with pre schoolers.

I think with the popularity of MYW tickets, AP purchases may decrease. It will be interesting to see.
If I still lived in the midwest, I would be looking and booking for dining packages, free or not. And with that I would not need an AP.

 

[jncvh]

Being a business minded person, I do see Disney's point of view. Basic economics, supply and demand. The demand is there so they can charge a higher price. If people are willing to pay $100 a night for a room, than why offer $39 a room. One reason why the parks may be fuller is the weakness of the US dollar compared to the CDN and the Euro. More International travelers will be coming to Disney as the exchange rate is offering them a great deal, thus driving up the price. I am sure that the free dining really helped for Sept. occupancy and wouldn't be surprised to see some type of January promo come out.

Disney would have some type of consumer spending ratio of an AP holder and a lets say an International traveler. An International traveler will pay rack rate for a room plus dining, many souvenirs, and additional spending. Where an AP holder gets in for an annual fee, discount on a room, food, and souvenirs, if they don't already have everything, so more money is made from a visitor versus an AP holder. Disney would have a break even point. Or, who many AP holders would it take to not renew their pass for every full paying visitor.

Now on the other side of the coin. It is easier to lose an existing customer than to gain a new customer. There isn't a lack of new customers to Disney; there is only a lack of new customers at a certain price, the better the incentive, and the more visitors that will come. AP holders have committed to attending the park and familiar on how Disney works, making it cheaper to retain that customer. I believe that valued customers are your bread and butter and should be treated as such and hopefully Disney knows this. The one major benefit of the AP is the perks. I find the perks are still there, just not in the quantity that they were before I really do hope AP holders get some discounted rates for June and July on their rooms. But you can’t blame Disney for running a business.

 

[bicker]

It seems to be an ever changing stategy.

It better be. The market is ever changing.