NJ - Education Crisis

[golfgal]

I'll agree that some of the regional high school districts have grown too large (thinking Freehold Regional and Lenape Regional). We need to move toward K-12 districts throughout the state. The k-8 and 9-12 district model that is so prevalent in the state is what is killing us.

There's no reason why some of the larger regional high school districts couldn't be broken down into smaller districts, but combine them with their smaller k-8 sending districts to provide for better continuity of services and fiscal efficiency.

For example, Rancocas Valley Regional High School District receives students from Lumberton, Mount Holly, Westampton, Eastampton, and Hainesport. The superintendent at RV makes $156,555 ('08-'09) for heading 1 school with approximately 2400 students. The Lumberton superintendent makes $175,998 ('08-'09) for heading 4 schools with approximately 1800 students. Mount Holly has 3 schools with approx. 1000 students and pays its superintendent $125,000. Westampton has 2 schools, approx. 950 students and pays its superintendent $143,853. Hainesport - 1 school, 700 students, superintendent salary $125, 167. Eastampton has 1 school, 750 students, salary $124,622.

That's a total of $851,195 for superintendents covering approx. 7600 students in 12 schools. Move across the river to Pennsylvania, where consolidation was mandated over 50 years ago, and compare the Neshaminy School District's figures. 9500 students in 13 schools. Superintendent's salary...a whopping $169,950! A difference of $681,245!!

Of course, it's not a perfect comparison, but it does highlight the savings that can be had if consolidation of services takes place.

Our superintendent makes $190K for 29,000 students and around 30 schools and people STILL complain that she makes too much.

 

[Cindy B]

I'll agree that some of the regional high school districts have grown too large (thinking Freehold Regional and Lenape Regional). We need to move toward K-12 districts throughout the state. The k-8 and 9-12 district model that is so prevalent in the state is what is killing us.

There's no reason why some of the larger regional high school districts couldn't be broken down into smaller districts, but combine them with their smaller k-8 sending districts to provide for better continuity of services and fiscal efficiency.

For example, Rancocas Valley Regional High School District receives students from Lumberton, Mount Holly, Westampton, Eastampton, and Hainesport. The superintendent at RV makes $156,555 ('08-'09) for heading 1 school with approximately 2400 students. The Lumberton superintendent makes $175,998 ('08-'09) for heading 4 schools with approximately 1800 students. Mount Holly has 3 schools with approx. 1000 students and pays its superintendent $125,000. Westampton has 2 schools, approx. 950 students and pays its superintendent $143,853. Hainesport - 1 school, 700 students, superintendent salary $125, 167. Eastampton has 1 school, 750 students, salary $124,622.

That's a total of $851,195 for superintendents covering approx. 7600 students in 12 schools. Move across the river to Pennsylvania, where consolidation was mandated over 50 years ago, and compare the Neshaminy School District's figures. 9500 students in 13 schools. Superintendent's salary...a whopping $169,950! A difference of $681,245!!

Of course, it's not a perfect comparison, but it does highlight the savings that can be had if consolidation of services takes place.

Love your comparison.

I was a Lenape graduate back in the late 80's (pre Seneca) Back then it was kids from Southampton Township, Mt. Laurel, some Medford, some Marlton -if they chose Lenape over Shawnee and Cherokee) and other outlying areas.

Southampton Township is huge-- it covers from Pemberton to Medford to Mt. Holly and all the way out to the four mile circle. Seneca was necessary for the sending kids from Indian Mills, Shamong, Southampton and the other areas.

I had over 800 kids in my graduating class. Consolidation would be a key for these smaller rural districts-- Southampton, Indian Mills and Shamong could combine.

Take it over to Camden County and Bellmawr, Runnemede and Mt. Ephraim could combine. I worked in the Bellmawr district-(loved it!) but it is small. People complained on how much the superintendents make for a 3 school district. Westampton has it on straight-- hiring a superintendent/principal together. So much could get accomplished with administrative interns-- teachers that want the principal credential but need practicum hours.

Cherry Hill is way too big to consolidate to an even larger but I bet a smaller district could "utilize" services if it was presented as a cost savings measure.

Collingswood and Oaklyn share services--why can't other districts?

 

[Kathi OD]

Love your comparison.

I was a Lenape graduate back in the late 80's (pre Seneca) Back then it was kids from Southampton Township, Mt. Laurel, some Medford, some Marlton -if they chose Lenape over Shawnee and Cherokee) and other outlying areas.

Southampton Township is huge-- it covers from Pemberton to Medford to Mt. Holly and all the way out to the four mile circle. Seneca was necessary for the sending kids from Indian Mills, Shamong, Southampton and the other areas.

I had over 800 kids in my graduating class. Consolidation would be a key for these smaller rural districts-- Southampton, Indian Mills and Shamong could combine.

Take it over to Camden County and Bellmawr, Runnemede and Mt. Ephraim could combine. I worked in the Bellmawr district-(loved it!) but it is small. People complained on how much the superintendents make for a 3 school district. Westampton has it on straight-- hiring a superintendent/principal together. So much could get accomplished with administrative interns-- teachers that want the principal credential but need practicum hours.

Cherry Hill is way too big to consolidate to an even larger but I bet a smaller district could "utilize" services if it was presented as a cost savings measure.

Collingswood and Oaklyn share services--why can't other districts?

Should I tell you I remember Lenape when it was only Lenape??

 

[scanne]

The district I teach in is already trying to utilize shared services. We are a one-school district - a K-8 school and we share our superindendent with another K-8. Both elementary/middle schools go to one larger regional high school. We started this last year to try to cut excess spending. I hope it's a trend....

 

[Cindy B]

Should I tell you I remember Lenape when it was only Lenape??

Well... you can't be that young! Seneca is what only four or five years old? Back in my day, we only Lenape Shawnee and Cherokee.

I lived in a strange place in Southampton where you could "choose" Shawnee or Lenape. Lenape, while still far.. was closer. Of course, many kids from Southampton chose Ossi.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

DisneyBamaFan,

There's no humor in what your answered. Are you immune to all of these cuts? Are you one of those people making $400k and not being taxed? Enlighten us all, please, as your posts in this thread are not very kind....and kind of one-sided.....

Sorry - I have been traveling - I posted the because that post was absurd.

Both of my boys attend NJ public school. One is getting a $550k cut, and the other is getting an $840k cut (as I remember them from looking it up last week). So this impact me, too.

That said, cuts have to be made. I really don't care what they cut at the state level. Cut everything if they like. Let the local communities pay for the services that are important to them in local taxes.

The state of NJ in so deeply in the red that it is in jeopardy of losing its credit rating. That would lead to financial ruin for every public servant in the state. (No, I am not an employee of the state, nor is my wife)

Essentially, I have the same amount of skin in the game as anyone else in the state. I am not rich. Additional costs will come out of my pocket. But we need to survive.

NJ residents get less per dollar paid in taxes than residents of any other state in America. Anyone outraged by this is more than a little disingenuous. They have been putting up with much worse for a very long time.

 

[poohtoyou]

My husband got pink slipped today because of budget cuts. 19 years in egg harbor twp and all non tenured employees are being told that they have no contract as of june 30th. He is not a teacher but support personnal. I don't blame Christie I blame the former administrations going back to Whitman.

 

[poohtoyou]

BTW..I too am a graduate of Lenape High School and a former resident of Mt. Laurel.

 

[Kathi OD]

Well... you can't be that young! Seneca is what only four or five years old? Back in my day, we only Lenape Shawnee and Cherokee.

I lived in a strange place in Southampton where you could "choose" Shawnee or Lenape. Lenape, while still far.. was closer. Of course, many kids from Southampton chose Ossi.

My good friend lives in Southampton. Her son chose Shawnee. Not sure why, but he did.

 

[Cindy B]

My good friend lives in Southampton. Her son chose Shawnee. Not sure why, but he did.

i guess it depends on how many friends you have from other areas. Back in the 80's it was more of an Ossi or Lenape choice vs. a Lenape or Shawnee choice.

If you chose Shawnee, it was more of a "what is Lenape not good enough for you?" mindset.. the few people that chose it was basically shunned for the lack of a better word. Not agreeing or disagreeing but just stating the obvious at the time in 83/84

I don't even think Ossi is a valid "choice" for most anymore. The emphasis is not on technical or trade education but more of an academic track or college prep courses. For Southampton students, these college bound options were not explained to many students -- most of which would have been first generation college students like myself! (I even had a Lenape guidance counselor tell me that No one from Southampton goes to college so why should you take "hard classes?.. I should have showed her my summa cum laude degrees

 

[Cindy B]

My husband got pink slipped today because of budget cuts. 19 years in egg harbor twp and all non tenured employees are being told that they have no contract as of june 30th. He is not a teacher but support personnal. I don't blame Christie I blame the former administrations going back to Whitman.

So sorry to hear this. Is this Winslow Twp? From what I have heard Winslow cut a bunch of positons last year, (I heard 55 or more) only to rehire a bunch in September once they got a handle on class and roster size.

That is horrible. Can he substitute teach? I will say that I am still on a few sub lists for districts. I do work full time but I have never taken my name off two districts sub lists because it is easier to keep the name on instead of having to pay for the credentials again (and my cert is good until 2013. I figure if something happens with my job I can sub!)


Well, I have been called/emailed about subbing so much in the past two weeks it is unbelievable. Of course it is just an email listing, but the amount of people taking time off is staggering.

 

[Brit17]

Gov. Christie to school employees: Skip raises

http://www.app.com/article/20100323...Gov.-Christie-to-school-employees-Skip-raises

 

[Kathi OD]

Gov. Christie to school employees: Skip raises

http://www.app.com/article/20100323...Gov.-Christie-to-school-employees-Skip-raises

I'd skip my raise...if I'd gotten a raise to skip.

 

[Kathi OD]

i guess it depends on how many friends you have from other areas. Back in the 80's it was more of an Ossi or Lenape choice vs. a Lenape or Shawnee choice.

If you chose Shawnee, it was more of a "what is Lenape not good enough for you?" mindset.. the few people that chose it was basically shunned for the lack of a better word. Not agreeing or disagreeing but just stating the obvious at the time in 83/84

I don't even think Ossi is a valid "choice" for most anymore. The emphasis is not on technical or trade education but more of an academic track or college prep courses. For Southampton students, these college bound options were not explained to many students -- most of which would have been first generation college students like myself! (I even had a Lenape guidance counselor tell me that No one from Southampton goes to college so why should you take "hard classes?.. I should have showed her my summa cum laude degrees

Well he went graduated from Shawnee in '05, so maybe the mindset has changed somewhat.

Also, it seems like (in the rest of the county anyway), Ossi isn't Ossi any more, but the "Medford" campus. And going there is determined by what you're taking, not where you live. I do know the girl across the street from us goes to the Medford campus. Westampton is much, much closer to us, but she has to go to Medford because what she's taking isn't offered at Westampton.

The tech schools today prepare students for college much better than they did 20 years ago. In some cases, better than a regular high school. Many tech school graduates go on to college and do quite well.

 

[IDoDis]

I'd skip my raise...if I'd gotten a raise to skip.

Same here. I'm a teacher and our salaries have been frozen for two years with no raises in sight. We also had to contribute more to our health insurance this year as we do every year. We pay over $580 a month for health insurance.

I'm not saying I agree with that governor. I'd much rather have a supportive one and not lay the problems in the teachers' laps, but most teachers have already been experiencing this.

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

I'm super happy that I just graduated with a degree in education....woohoO!
Well....I wonder if I could do anything with my psych degree.

 

[allison443]

I'd skip my raise...if I'd gotten a raise to skip.

Teachers in our NJ town got a raise this year and their contract calls for raises for the next two years as well (not huge raises, but something.) The union head has already stated categorically that they will not reconsider any provisions of their contract.

 

[Cindy B]

Well he went graduated from Shawnee in '05, so maybe the mindset has changed somewhat.

Also, it seems like (in the rest of the county anyway), Ossi isn't Ossi any more, but the "Medford" campus. And going there is determined by what you're taking, not where you live. I do know the girl across the street from us goes to the Medford campus. Westampton is much, much closer to us, but she has to go to Medford because what she's taking isn't offered at Westampton.

The tech schools today prepare students for college much better than they did 20 years ago. In some cases, better than a regular high school. Many tech school graduates go on to college and do quite well.

Interesting. I have a few middle school friends that were Ossi graduates (chose Ossi over Lenape) and they say it wasnt very helpful.. I'm glad to hear things have changed. Back in the day, Ossi was emphasized to the Southampton students as an "easier" school and less "challenging".

For example, somebody I know went there for cosmetology or hairdressing (one of those). She said the emphasis was on hair/makeup vs. "regular" school subjects.

Glad to hear that it has changed.

 

[pixiedust23]

Teachers in our NJ town got a raise this year and their contract calls for raises for the next two years as well (not huge raises, but something.) The union head has already stated categorically that they will not reconsider any provisions of their contract.

You have no idea what those teachers might have had to negotiate (aka give up) to get those raises. They might have started paying for health care, added days to their teacher calendar, etc. I understand that while it is easy to say hey why aren't you giving up your raise, but there is so much more that goes into a negotiation round that is not being mentioned. Just food for thought.

 

[Kathi OD]

Teachers in our NJ town got a raise this year and their contract calls for raises for the next two years as well (not huge raises, but something.) The union head has already stated categorically that they will not reconsider any provisions of their contract.

That's pretty much so they don't set a precedent of give-backs without getting something in return (and what you get doesn't necessarily have to be of equal value as the thing you gave up). From a negotiation standpoint, that's a bad place to be.