Nikon D7000

[johamna]

johamna - How do you like it so far?

I've absolutely fallen in love with it. Coming from the T2i, it feels so much nicer in my hands and the secondary wheel makes setting up a shot so much more efficient.

The kit lens is not as bad as some make it out to be, however I am mostly shooting with the 35mm 1.8 and find it optically better.

I recently picked up a tripod and remote, too, so I'll hopefully have some time to do some land/cityscape shooting this weekend and will be sure to post.

How about you, how are you enjoying it? Were you able to get the 12% off at Best Buy (what a steal, huh?)?

 

[Gdad]

So I want to add a smaller size DX camera with video to my kit.

I had a D300 and really liked it but jumped to the D700 a couple years ago when they first came out. I kind of missed some of the advantages of DX and started thinking about this and making plans when I first read the specs on the D7000. I have picked up a few DX lenses recently- so I’m committed- but now I am kind of unsure on the camera body.

Right now I am seriously considering bailing on the D7000 idea and going for a used D300s instead.

Availability - D7000 has limited availability…D300s is available new, used, and refurbished.

Technology - D7000 is current…D300s is about a year old. Maybe a year is getting a little long in the tooth for a DSLR but I think it is still a very capable camera.

Price - D7000 lists for $1200…D300s now lists for $1460. The D300s can also be found used or factory refurbished for a price close to or below a new D7000. I would probably only consider a used one since ‘refurbished’ tends to be a negative at resale.

Sensor - D7000 is 16.2 Megapixels…D300s is 12.3 Megapixels. I am not sure how I feel about this. My D700 is 12.3 Megapixels and I have never had an issue with the file size. I suppose more is better but I already feel like I’m fighting a losing battle with drive space with two 1TB external drives that are approaching capacity. I have no idea what I am going to do for storage especially once I start accumulating large video files.

Size & Weight - D7000 is 5.2” x 4.1” x 3” and 27.5 oz…D300s is 5.8” x 4.5” X 2.9” and 33.1 oz. Considering my D700 as a benchmark, which is 5.8” x 4.8” x 3” and weighs 37.9 oz, I know I do not want anything any larger. I would prefer something smaller- but definitely do not want anything that feels cheap or plastic by comparison.

Build - D7000 has a partial Magnesium alloy body…D300s is full Magnesium alloy construction. Looking at pictures it appears that the only metal frame used on the D7000 is on the top and back of the camera. I am a little concerned with the tripod mounting if the bottom is plastic. I have not read this anywhere- just speculation looking at the pictures.

Controls - D7000 has a D90ish layout…D300s has a D700ish layout. No comparison here- using a two camera kit I would really prefer two bodies with almost identical controls. Plus I prefer the uncluttered P-S-A-M menu dial compared to having a bunch of user modes like “Pet Portrait” – I mean seriously- I don’t care how good it is part of me is just inherently anti-pet-portrait mode.

ISO Range - D7000 is 100-6400 (100-25600)…D300s is 200-3200 (100-6400) This actually appeals to me mostly for the low end- although I was disappointed that the D7000 does not have the typical ‘Boost ISO’ setting of half the lowest native setting. I have never really understood why a lot of cameras do not list their actual lowest setting as native but hope this indicates some interest in pushing the lower limits of ISO with some of the same vigor that they keep pushing the high end. Not a consideration here but I would love to see a camera with a low end ISO of 10 or 25 one day.

Auto Focus - D7000 uses 39 Point AF…D300s uses 51 Point AF. This seems like an inconsequential difference, however since some of the D7000’s have been in the field I have read several accounts of the outside sensors not tracking as well as DX or DXXX series cameras on difficult moving targets like birds in flight. This is probably just some of the over-hype of this camera coming back to reality though.

Continuous Drive - D7000 is listed as Max 6fps…D300s is listed as Max 7fps. I don’t care about this all that much since I hardly ever shoot in the fast continuous mode anyway. If I ever do the buffer is probably a lot more important than the fps rate and I suspect the D300s would probably smoke the D7000 at around 8-10 shots.

Movie Clips - D7000 is listed at 1920x1080 HD 24fps…D300s is listed at 1280x720 24fps. Adding video is one of the big things I am adding a new camera for. I do not understand much about it yet but ran across this on another forum, it seems like a clear advantage to the D7000. “All current DSLR video is shot in either I-frame encoding or P-frame encoding. But B-Frame encoding is the desired encoding for quality and to limit "Jello" frame when panning. Currently you can only shoot 1080p 24p B-frame video with professional grade camcorders in the $3000+ price range. That is until the D7000 is actually out. Nikon has confirmed that the D7K uses B-Frame encoding in BOTH 1080p and 720p recording. Using B-frame encoding in 1080p is the reason why it will not be able to do 30p in 1080p mode. There are currently no video cameras capable of recording above 24p (at least I cannot find any that claim they can), so the fact that a DSLR can do it at all is a huge step in video recording with one. A lot of the serious video shooters are buzzing about this and how it weakens the video argument in favor of the Canon 7D. The video thing is totally foreign to me, but one poster claimed that a video shot at 24p 720 with B-Frame can produce better slow motion video than a 60p 720 I-frame video.” Again- I don't know enough about video yet to have a clue if that's important to me or not.

Remote Control - D7000 uses Wireless…D300s uses a 10-Pin Terminal. The wireless remote would be a nice feature to have- . I already have one wireless remote and a couple of the $50 MC-30 cables anyway.

Battery - D7000 uses EN-EL15…D300s uses EN-EL3. I have not researched the battery performance between the two types. For me personally the advantage would be to have two cameras using the same battery system. I already have 2x EN-EL3 chargers and 4x batteries in the camera bag.

Media - D7000 takes Duel SD Cards…D300s takes one SD and one CF Card. Again- this is only a plus to the D300s since I already own like 48 GB’s of CF Cards.

Timing – Right now the D7000 is selling new for full retail price if you can find one- the D300s is already selling new for about $350 off the retail cost the day it was announced. This obviously pushes the used market for the camera even lower. From what I have seen I think I could snag a very nice D300s for less than a new D7000 and I really don’t expect it will drop all that much next year when an amazing new D400 rolls out.

Here is what I am thinking it boils down to:

D7000
• New Model- Nice
• Better sensor - Nice
• Better ISO range – Nice but I have the D700 for that
• Better video – Good- but I have nothing now so anything would be good
• Wireless Trigger – I would like this option but not a huge deal

D300s
• Proven Model
• Available right now new and used
• Solid Professional build
• Better Auto Focus
• Familiar Controls (I think this is a really big deal)
• Same battery as D700
• Same media as D700
• Less depreciation if I buy used and move to a D400 next year?

So am I off base? Crazy to be thinking D300s?

 

[rossb]

As far as video goes, my D90 is pretty bad. I see bad artifacts and bad "pulsations". I would not let video capabilities enter into this decision. Here are some short samples from my D90:

http://vimeo.com/user3726573

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Can't offer much advice (other than to suggest that you just switch to a 5DM2 and 7D and be done with all this Nikon silliness).

I can say a few things about the video, but they won't clear up much. Video compression is a darned complex subject. The simplest video compression is mjpeg. It is basically just storing each frame in the video as a jpeg image. The next level in sophistication is compressing one full frame and then storing only a compressed version of the differences for the next several (typically 15) frames. For reasonably static scenes, that significantly reduces storage space. B-frames are part of a multi-directional encoding scheme where any given frame can be based on the difference with the key frame before or after it. That should lead to even better levels of compression.

So will it make for better video? There are so many other factors that there is no way of knowing without doing lots of different comparisons. The encoder could use the more efficient compression to generate smaller files (lower bitrates) rather than higher quality files. Even using the same basic encoding scheme, different encoders produce different quality images in different situations. Having bi-directional compression is a good thing and it does indicate that, if everything else is the same, video files will either be smaller, higher quality, or a combination of both, but all other things are never the same.

One thing that I would research a bit if you are serious about doing video is how this new compression works with your favorite video editors. When I got my 5DM2, I loved the video quality but hated editing with it. AVCHD video takes a lot of processing power to decode, so my preview window in Premiere showed me about 1/4 to 1 fps. I had to transcode (see Cineform's site) to a codec designed for editing to be able to really work with the footage.

Things have improved since then. Adobe's Mercury Engine has completely changed my video editing experience. Now I can monitor 2 AVCHD streams and one HDV stream simultaneously without the computer breaking a sweat. My rendering times also improved by a factor of 10-20 as well. The downside to the Mercury Engine is that NVidia carefully limits the video cards it will work with to encourage the sale of their workstation cards (although their are hacks that supposedly work with some of their gaming cards).

My point is that, just like you need good RAW processing tools that work with your camera's format, you need good video processing tools as well. Make sure that your video software supports the new D7000 files and that it does so with performance that you find acceptable. Failing that, make sure that you can transcode the video into some other format that you can work with.

Honestly, video is a pain. It's much harder that photography. Your lighting has to be continuous. You have to worry about audio. Editing is more complicated. Distribution is harder. I successfully execute about 1/4 of the photography ideas that I have. For video, that number is closer to 1 project in 20. For comparison, I spent 3 hours going through a weekend's worth of pictures including culling, editing, posting, and making a slideshow. When I shoot a 30 minute school play, it takes me about 20 to 30 hours to produce a video.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I suppose I can make a few other relevant points.

My 7D has a popup flash that can be used as a controller. Very cool. It means one less device to carry and mount on the hot shoe.

My 5D and 7D share batteries. That's really nice because I only had to buy one extra. Having a single spare battery works has worked well for me, but when I used a 5D and 1D, I needed spares for each. It also means lugging one fewer chargers on trips.

It took me a while to get used to the different controls on the 5D when moving from the 1D. Once I did, I found that I had no trouble switching between the two. While they were different, they both were reasonably efficient. I still hate having a mode selector knob, though. On the 1D, you held down buttons and turned a wheel to switch modes. The problem with the knob is that it gets turned on accident. Maybe that is an artifact of using the BR strap.

Build - I've only owned full metal cameras, but I've got lots of friends with "plastic" Rebels and such. Not one person that I know has had a body fail. I think that the plastic bodies are strong enough for almost any reasonably use. The metal stuff just feels better build. That said, I don't know anyone that lugs around a Rebel with a 2.8 zoom on the end of a BR strap all day either.

I also bought a 7D because I thought it would be nice to have a "DX" (EF-S in my lingo) body to go along with my FX. So far, I'm not that jazzed. The extra "reach" has been handy in a few cases, but overall I'm not that thrilled with the decision. I'll probably grab the successor to the 5D or 1Ds and the 7D will start collecting dust. I'm sure that you have good reasons for wanting both a DX and an FX, but it doesn't really suit what I do.

 

[omghidanielle]

Does anyone have any experience with the kit lens?

I wanted to pre-order before the Christmas season sinks in, but don't have the money right now. Best Buy's 3 year-no-interest financing is enticing (it will in no way take me 3 years to pay this off...plus I have coupons that would help), but doesn't give me the option to buy body only. I don't know if I really *need* this lens. Everything I've read about it is kind of mediocre.

I don't have much of a kit. I have the 18-55mm kit lens (which I kind of busted up a bit...oops) from my D40 and recently invested in a 50mm f/1.4. I was looking to pick up an 18-200mm sometime in the future, but was looking to upgrade the body first (at the time, to a D90).

One minute I'm hell bent and going for it, and the next I'm cursing at myself and convincing myself to wait until the summer. (and then I convince myself that my husband's 9.9% credit card would be smart, and then realize that is dumb, and then think it would be smart to take a small loan against my savings, then realize that that is dumb also..........so as you can see, I'm torturing myself)

Help?

 

[Groucho]

I would say that part of the question is whether or not you'll keep the D700, or even if you are considering it depending on your happiness with the crop-sensor camera. It sounds like the new sensor (assuming it's the same as the K-5's) really is living up to the hype of offering D700 ISO performance in an APS sensor - and higher resolution, to boot. At the very least, it's awfully darn good and much better than the D300s - and probably much better DR, also which is something you may miss if you went from the D700 to D300s.

In terms of video, from what I understand, all Nikons prior to the D7000 recorded audio at 11kHz, vs the more standard 44kHz that all other DSLRs use. So you might notice a difference in the audio. 1080 is nicer than 720 but I'd rather have 720 at 30fps than 1080 at 24fps. Sorry, film snobs (and I am a lover of classic film, as you can tell by my username!), but 24fps doesn't make much sense for home videos in 2010. You get more jittery movement and there aren't many display devices capable of displaying 24fps correctly. (This is a nice thing about 24fps Blurays on 120kHz TVs, but I doubt they'll play back your DSLR video this way.) B-frames and such are fine for lab-room measurbating but at the end of the day, it's all about how it looks when you play it back, and that is going to be something you probably won't know until you play with it yourself.

One other thing about video - the D7000 is the only DSLR to offer autofocus in video mode. Of course, I'm not how effective it will be, but it's there. The K-5's contrast-detect AF in liveview mode is astonishingly fast so the current gen should be capable of doing it pretty well (I have no idea how the D7000 is in this regard.) This could be the difference between it being an occasional toy and something you'd use more regularly. I am pretty satisfied with the video I get from my camera but manual focusing while shooting is a bit of a pain, and it doesn't help that you're likely to move the lens barrel a little while doing it, giving it a little wobble.

I doubt there's any reason to be concerned about the tripod mount. How often do you hear about it ripping off the camera? Plenty of people use R-Straps on plastic-bodies DSLRs with no issues.

Were I in your shoes, the only thing pushing me towards the D300s might be improved weathersealing - I'm not sure that the D300s has "full" weathersealing but I don't think the D7000 does. The AF may be faster in the D7000 too, being a newer model, so that's not a guaranteed plus for the D300s, either. At the end of the day - the cutting-edge 16mp sensor is too important a feature to overlook compared to the old 12mp sensor which is, compared to newer sensors, looking a little bit long in the tooth. If you did need the D300s build/AF, I'd wait until the replacement with the 16mp sensor comes along.

 

[Gdad]

...One thing that I would research a bit if you are serious about doing video is how this new compression works with your favorite video editors...

...My point is that, just like you need good RAW processing tools that work with your camera's format, you need good video processing tools as well. Make sure that your video software supports the new D7000 files and that it does so with performance that you find acceptable...

I don't have any video software yet...much less a favorite. I'm sure I'll be looking for some basic type software to cut and piece together files of add some kind of effect but I am seriously just sticking my big toe in the water of video at this point. I have a feeling it will be a long time if ever before I push the video capabilities of either camera.

 

[WDWFigment]

You make some good points, and after reading your post, it seems like a logical question you have, but I think you're really downplaying the difference in sensors. I would ask myself this: were both of these cameras available for you to purchase today, would you really be debating this? I was told by both Amazon and J&R that the D7000 (body only) would begin shipping on October 28th (information as of yesterday). Now, this doesn't mean yours will ship then if you preordered later, but I don't think the D7000 is "months down the road."

I might suggest that if you haven't placed an order yet, that you follow my 'strategy' at J&R (PM me if you want details, or check out that "Pre-ordering" thread). Really makes the price of the D7000 a lot more bearable.

 

[Gdad]

I would say that part of the question is whether or not you'll keep the D700, or even if you are considering it depending on your happiness with the crop-sensor camera. It sounds like the new sensor (assuming it's the same as the K-5's) really is living up to the hype of offering D700 ISO performance in an APS sensor - and higher resolution, to boot. At the very least, it's awfully darn good and much better than the D300s - and probably much better DR, also which is something you may miss if you went from the D700 to D300s.

Yes I am keeping the D700- pretty much only for my 28mm f1.4

I don't know anything about the K5 ISO but the consensus on the D7000 sensor seems to be about 1 stop improvement from the D90.

 

[Gdad]

You make some good points, and after reading your post, it seems like a logical question you have, but I think you're really downplaying the difference in sensors.

You may be right. At the end of the day for me it's Sensor vs. Pro Build / Controls. And I'm surprised I am having such a tuff time with the decision.

I might suggest that if you haven't placed an order yet, that you follow my 'strategy' at J&R (PM me if you want details, or check out that "Pre-ordering" thread). Really makes the price of the D7000 a lot more bearable.

I have not preordered yet- I have looked at the math on your thread. The final price is nice- just seems like a lot of work to get to it. I'm afraid (knowing me) I would end up with $1700 out of pocket- a new printer I never bother to sell- and a lost or expired mail-in-rebate form somehow. (This thread is reminding me I have $250 worth of cell phone mail-in-rebates in my desk drawer I have to do something with from a few weeks ago!)

I would ask myself this: were both of these cameras available for you to purchase today, would you really be debating this?

Well you got me there- if I got an email while typing this that a D7000 was available I would probably order it- then come back here and type 'never mind'...of course I might do the same thing for a right-priced D300s too. A few weeks ago when people were thinking this was a D300s replacement I saw a few nice ones in the $950-$1000 range I wish I had jumped on- the ones I see now are in the $1200-$1250 range.

 

[Gdad]

I was told by both Amazon and J&R that the D7000 (body only) would begin shipping on October 28th (information as of yesterday). Now, this doesn't mean yours will ship then if you preordered later, but I don't think the D7000 is "months down the road."

Good info- I just spoke with a guy at J&R who told me they are expecting to have 200 available on sale on October 28th and they have 46 preorders so far...now 47.

 

[Groucho]

Yes I am keeping the D700- pretty much only for my 28mm f1.4

I don't know anything about the K5 ISO but the consensus on the D7000 sensor seems to be about 1 stop improvement from the D90.

I have some some posted K-5 samples including ISO 51,200 - and even that is not too shabby all things considered. Granted, what I've seen has been in consistent lighting (no big black areas) and I haven't pored over 100% samples, but it's very impressive, especially for an APS sensor. Add in the improved DR, it would seem that some of the big advantages of the FF sensor have been removed or at least reduced, so the main difference may be just the extra DoF. Unless someone can prove otherwise, I'm still of the belief that they're the same sensor, just with different circuitry connecting them, so performance should be pretty similar. Of course, your lenses will have to work a lot harder, pulling 16mp from a crop sensor vs 12mp from a FF...

From what I understand, the D300s is virtually the same as the D300, just with video and a couple small tweaks here and there - and coming from the D300, you should have a pretty good idea of what it's like vs the D700.

I'd look at it this way - if you bought a D300s now, you'd probably be itching for the D400 or whatever the replacement will be called that comes with the better sensor and probably other new features (and certainly better audio/video.) If you bought the D7000 now, you'll probably be happy enough that you can skip the D400. If you really need the all-metal construction or better sealing, you still have the D700. If the D400 was available, you probably wouldn't be having this debate (but you'd have to dig a bit deeper to get it!)

 

[Groucho]

Good info- I just spoke with a guy at J&R who told me they are expecting to have 200 available on sale on October 28th and they have 46 preorders so far...now 47.

Heh... good deal. Guess this thread is all wrapped up now.

FWIW, Amazon's shipping dates may not be completely reliable. Not to bring up the K-5 again, but they list it as "available for pre-order" - but they actually have gotten in at least one or two shipments and some people have received their cameras from them a week or two ago, well before B&H, etc have had them. Amazon seems to be good as getting stuff very early. So, I would guess that wherever you order it from, Amazon will probably get it at least as early if not earlier.

 

[WDWFigment]

Heh... good deal. Guess this thread is all wrapped up now.

FWIW, Amazon's shipping dates may not be completely reliable. Not to bring up the K-5 again, but they list it as "available for pre-order" - but they actually have gotten in at least one or two shipments and some people have received their cameras from them a week or two ago, well before B&H, etc have had them. Amazon seems to be good as getting stuff very early. So, I would guess that wherever you order it from, Amazon will probably get it at least as early if not earlier.

Amazon, for a while, was saying mid-November on the order information page. When you call and talk to them directly, they give a lot more accurate information. I think they just estimate loosely online so people are happy when they receive their items "early."

 

[rossb]

I was just in the J&R retail store (I work in Downtown NYC). They claim they are getting the D7000 earlier than Oct 28. You guys are starting to talk me into it.

 

[handicap18]

I really like all the specs on the D7000. Very impressive. Had the D7000 came out when I was in the buying process for my D300 I would have gone with the D7000. SD cards are pretty cheep.

If you really get into doing more video you can always switch your computer to a Mac. Much better with video editing and processing.

Way back in the day (in college) I thought I was going to go into audio/video production. I really liked that field at the time and have always like video. That was until digital stills came around. Now with digital video I really would like to get a dSLR with video, but that may not happen for a few years. I miss out on a lot of video stuff, but still like my stills.

I've read a lot more articles recently that "pro" photographers are starting to incorporate video into their regular picture taking on jobs and producing short slide show type stuff with both video and stills taken from the same camera. I was thinking of doing that at our last Down syndrome event, but since my dSLR only takes stills and I forgot the video camera at home. Oh well.

Ok I digressed a bit. Anyway, I'd go with the D7000.

 

[Gdad]

Good info- I just spoke with a guy at J&R who told me they are expecting to have 200 available on sale on October 28th and they have 46 preorders so far...now 47.

I got a nice email from J&R last night saying my D7000 was back ordered and I might want to consider a Canon EOS 60D instead. I hope they're kidding.

 

[Groucho]

I got a nice email from J&R last night saying my D7000 was back ordered and I might want to consider a Canon EOS 60D instead. I hope they're kidding.

That's hilarious. Good luck with that sale, J&R!

 

[gwishmael]

I would stay away from the consumer camera (d7000) myself. You already have a prosumer camera (d700) and the d7000 will probly feel like a down grade in equipment. Your prosumer cameras are more durible and sealed better. They are built to last longer. The differance in the MP of the two cameras isn't really that important. It only needs to be a 6MP with the dx sensor to create a good 11x14. If you are wanting to print larger then that you should be using a lab that has RIP software anyway. As for the video, if your movies are any length of time at all. You have to compress the video down (decreasing the quality) inorder to fit them on a dvd anyway. Plus, like I think it was said before, the higher quality the raw video is, the better and more expensive the software needs to be for good editing. In the end, I think if you get the d7000, it will feel like a toy instead of a tool. Especially after using a camera like your d700.
But thats just my thoughts.