News Round Up 2016

[lockedoutlogic]

The hub expansion was necessary though. At least they made an effort to make it pretty instead of pouring concrete everywhere and call it a day.

very loosely using "pretty" there, aren't we?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

All personal opinion. Destroying the rose gardens and damming up the water doesn't look prettier to me.

not to anyone not automatically taking a pro-disney stance. I'm sorry…i have to turn the napalm on here. The magic kingdom is not "better" with a gigantic slurry based field to look up for 9 minutes a day…even if they did some scrollwork railings and astroturf mixed among the concrete. I'll dig in on that hill and "hold off the enemy as long as i can" on this one.

 

[rteetz]

very loosely using "pretty" there, aren't we?

It's better than just concrete.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's better than just concrete.

using "better" pretty loosely, aren't we?

i'm partially kidding…but here's the thing: we as consumers should be cutting them ZERO breaks at this point. reductions combined with cost increases? what the hell is that?

because they are building retail and a couple of longterm projects? that's great and i'll pay more for it…but not on a flexible scale. Avatar is over budget and behind schedule? NOT MY PROBLEM…that's an internal bad management/decision problem. They pulled it from left field and let the inmates run the asylum.

so am i too "heavy" in criticizing these things? of course. Is it better than blind acceptance? I have little doubt.

 

[Tiggr924]

not to anyone not automatically taking a pro-disney stance. I'm sorry…i have to turn the napalm on here. The magic kingdom is not "better" with a gigantic slurry based field to look up for 9 minutes a day…even if they did some scrollwork railings and astroturf mixed among the concrete. I'll dig in on that hill and "hold off the enemy as long as i can" on this one.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way!

 

[Tiggr924]

Was there any info given as to what happened to those roses? Was curious this past December where they went.

My gut says they were probably sent to Disney's Magical Compost Heap. The gardener part of me hopes some of them made it over to Epcot's Rose gardens.

I asked a few CMs, but was told they didn't know. Which leads me to believe you're right about the compost heap. But I have no evidence one way or another.

 

[rteetz]

using "better" pretty loosely, aren't we?

i'm partially kidding…but here's the thing: we as consumers should be cutting them ZERO breaks at this point. reductions combined with cost increases? what the hell is that?

because they are building retail and a couple of longterm projects? that's great and i'll pay more for it…but not on a flexible scale. Avatar is over budget and behind schedule? NOT MY PROBLEM…that's an internal bad management/decision problem. They pulled it from left field and let the inmates run the asylum.

so am i too "heavy" in criticizing these things? of course. Is it better than blind acceptance? I have little doubt.

I don't know what you could do better though with expanding the hub. I think they did it as good as they could have.

Avatar isn't behind schedule. Overbudget yes.

 

[Eoghann]

I don't know what you could do better though with expanding the hub. I think they did it as good as they could have.

Avatar isn't behind schedule. Overbudget yes.

The only other solutions I can think of are:

1) Limit park attendance (clearly not happening)
2) Stop doing things on the Castle stage (yeah not likely)
3) Put so many additional things into the park that the crowds are dispersed despite Castle shows

Lets face it none of those things are happening though you could certainly argue that if they had been more active in updating for the last 10 years 3 would have been at least partially accomplished. Even then I think the hub needed the redesign.

 

[englishrose47]

Joining to keep up with the latest !! I read they are adding a resort fee ???? Also no surprise DDP is going up !! Boy where are those days when it was $36 a day and your TS included appie , and dessert AND TIP!!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't know what you could do better though with expanding the hub. I think they did it as good as they could have.

Avatar isn't behind schedule. Overbudget yes.

If they had more in the back of the park (frontierland and Tomorrowland stagnant since the mid 90's)...and hadn't punted on new fantasyland by downscaling it to nowhere near the original ballyhooed budget...you wouldn't have an operational problem in "the hub"

And do you honestly believe the timeline for avatar right now? I would say "healthy skepticism" is safe at this point. At a minimum.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Joining to keep up with the latest !! I read they are adding a resort fee ???? Also no surprise DDP is going up !! Boy where are those days when it was $36 a day and your TS included appie , and dessert AND TIP!!

Gone...because people have gladly went along with every change to it.

 

[bbmassey]

using "better" pretty loosely, aren't we?

i'm partially kidding…but here's the thing: we as consumers should be cutting them ZERO breaks at this point. reductions combined with cost increases? what the hell is that?

because they are building retail and a couple of longterm projects? that's great and i'll pay more for it…but not on a flexible scale. Avatar is over budget and behind schedule? NOT MY PROBLEM…that's an internal bad management/decision problem. They pulled it from left field and let the inmates run the asylum.

so am i too "heavy" in criticizing these things? of course. Is it better than blind acceptance? I have little doubt.

I’m sorry but why are you the one who gets to make the decision, partially kidding or not, on who we as consumers should be cutting who breaks? I do not recall anyone here sharing their opinions and tying them to you in the manner in which you do for everyone else. It is beyond clear that you have a bone to pick with the either Disney or the parks, and you make little to no attempt to hide your disdain. I understand, and can appreciate that you find things out of your preferred price range and are agitated with corporate decisions, we never went in our first 15 years of our marriage because our income positions and family challenges simply did not allow for it. In the years that we longed to go, not once did I find myself tempted to belittle the company or those who had the good fortune of being able to do something that we longed to do. As for their corporate decisions? I have enjoyed both stock splits and the increased stock price since 1996.

Over the last seven years, we have furthered our personal educations, increased our marketability and earnings potential, maximized our investments, and as a result, now find ourselves lucky enough to go to and enjoy the parks with our family. I am sorry that you seem to have had such a bad experience that you feel the need to troll the company and those on this board who find enjoyment at the parks.

The joys of a free enterprise system stem from the fact that consumers set the price they are willing to pay for goods and services. At the current price point, it is clear that you have no intent on voting with your dollars. I respect your vote but why should you dictate to me what my vote should be by attempting to inform me and many others on this site that “we as consumers should be cutting them ZERO breaks at this point”? I respect your individuality and your ability to make informed decisions that best suit your personal situation and I see no need to tell you to whom who you should and should not cut breaks. I chose to cut them breaks because I find value in my chosen vacation, I would not have booked it if I did not.

I am sure that you will argue “blind acceptance.” Understand, I too have limits to my acceptance. In the past, we have chosen not to accept the price point. The thing is, at this point, I can now afford to accept the current price points. In the past, I could not accept the prior price points but today I can. Who knows what I will be able to do in the future and I will vote with my income and budget when that time comes. While Disney may not be willing to lower their prices and place them on a silver platter for you, they have not problems filling their parks without you. While you nor I may not like it, they could probably double their prices and keep the park near capacity and at that point would go on without either of us. If said increase were to occur, I would not be able to afford to go, but I would not speak down to those who could. Those who could afford it would have earned the right to do as they please with the income they earned. While I would miss my time in the parks, my shares would see an increase in value increasing my ability to further my portfolio.

I think the biggest thing that you fail to accept, yes accept not understand, is that Disney serves a want based market, not a need-based market. They do not need to satisfy you though prices or their business decisions, there are plenty of others who are. The prior concepts you have espoused such as price gouging do not apply. This conversation is not bread, milk, or water. This argument is the rights of anyone to buy the items that make them happy that go above and beyond their base needs. Why do people drive a BMW, Mercedes, or similar high-end car? Why do people shell out $250 for concert tickets, $1,000’s for Super Bowl tickets, and $100,000’s for second homes? They have the ability to do so because they have worked hard and earned it. Have some cheated the system? Certainly, but that is a small percentage who make everyone else look bad.

I respect your ability to voice your concerns, complaints, and decisions but, as we move forward, would you please not pretend to be the voice of everyone else who does enjoy Disney and the parks? I have earned the money that I have paid for my upcoming trip, and because I assign my own personal definitions to the terms value and enjoyment, I know the memories that I will make with my children will allow me to enjoy my time in the parks, make my trip a value to me, and allow me to appreciate the Magical vacation I have worked so hard to earn.

 

[Eoghann]

And round and round it goes...

Can't argue with the brainwashed.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I’m sorry but why are you the one who gets to make the decision, partially kidding or not, on who we as consumers should be cutting who breaks? I do not recall anyone here sharing their opinions and tying them to you in the manner in which you do for everyone else. It is beyond clear that you have a bone to pick with the either Disney or the parks, and you make little to no attempt to hide your disdain. I understand, and can appreciate that you find things out of your preferred price range and are agitated with corporate decisions, we never went in our first 15 years of our marriage because our income positions and family challenges simply did not allow for it. In the years that we longed to go, not once did I find myself tempted to belittle the company or those who had the good fortune of being able to do something that we longed to do. As for their corporate decisions? I have enjoyed both stock splits and the increased stock price since 1996.

Over the last seven years, we have furthered our personal educations, increased our marketability and earnings potential, maximized our investments, and as a result, now find ourselves lucky enough to go to and enjoy the parks with our family. I am sorry that you seem to have had such a bad experience that you feel the need to troll the company and those on this board who find enjoyment at the parks.

The joys of a free enterprise system stem from the fact that consumers set the price they are willing to pay for goods and services. At the current price point, it is clear that you have no intent on voting with your dollars. I respect your vote but why should you dictate to me what my vote should be by attempting to inform me and many others on this site that “we as consumers should be cutting them ZERO breaks at this point”? I respect your individuality and your ability to make informed decisions that best suit your personal situation and I see no need to tell you to whom who you should and should not cut breaks. I chose to cut them breaks because I find value in my chosen vacation, I would not have booked it if I did not.

I am sure that you will argue “blind acceptance.” Understand, I too have limits to my acceptance. In the past, we have chosen not to accept the price point. The thing is, at this point, I can now afford to accept the current price points. In the past, I could not accept the prior price points but today I can. Who knows what I will be able to do in the future and I will vote with my income and budget when that time comes. While Disney may not be willing to lower their prices and place them on a silver platter for you, they have not problems filling their parks without you. While you nor I may not like it, they could probably double their prices and keep the park near capacity and at that point would go on without either of us. If said increase were to occur, I would not be able to afford to go, but I would not speak down to those who could. Those who could afford it would have earned the right to do as they please with the income they earned. While I would miss my time in the parks, my shares would see an increase in value increasing my ability to further my portfolio.

I think the biggest thing that you fail to accept, yes accept not understand, is that Disney serves a want based market, not a need-based market. They do not need to satisfy you though prices or their business decisions, there are plenty of others who are. The prior concepts you have espoused such as price gouging do not apply. This conversation is not bread, milk, or water. This argument is the rights of anyone to buy the items that make them happy that go above and beyond their base needs. Why do people drive a BMW, Mercedes, or similar high-end car? Why do people shell out $250 for concert tickets, $1,000’s for Super Bowl tickets, and $100,000’s for second homes? They have the ability to do so because they have worked hard and earned it. Have some cheated the system? Certainly, but that is a small percentage who make everyone else look bad.

I respect your ability to voice your concerns, complaints, and decisions but, as we move forward, would you please not pretend to be the voice of everyone else who does enjoy Disney and the parks? I have earned the money that I have paid for my upcoming trip, and because I assign my own personal definitions to the terms value and enjoyment, I know the memories that I will make with my children will allow me to enjoy my time in the parks, make my trip a value to me, and allow me to appreciate the Magical vacation I have worked so hard to earn.

So I scrolled and let me make sure I got the highlights:

1. Don't like my tone or force. Got it. My opinion. That's obvious but I will mea culpa and concede many don't like my tone. It's an opinion and should be taken as such.

2. Free market...university of Chicago...Milton friedman...the gipper...laisse faire...Adam smith. Blah blah blah. Again...I hate that excuse. I begrudge no one who accepts it. Agree to disagree.

3. I hate Disney, right? 100% wrong. That is not a debate. I caution against giving this bad Disney management too much power and give warning to everyone. Specifically in wdw...I'm more lenient in criticism elsewhere. There is so much evidence as to bad management, operation, and pricing decisions in the swamp since 2005 you can right a book on it. I again don't expect everyone to agree...but I'm not gonna dismiss my own case this time.

It's there to see...have to look for it.

And now we can agree to disagree...which is not a problem. Spice of life.

 

[rteetz]

If they had more in the back of the park (frontierland and Tomorrowland stagnant since the mid 90's)...and hadn't punted on new fantasyland by downscaling it to nowhere near the original ballyhooed budget...you wouldn't have an operational problem in "the hub"

And do you honestly believe the timeline for avatar right now? I would say "healthy skepticism" is safe at this point. At a minimum.

The problem in the Hub is due to the fireworks you don't like.

 

[Eoghann]

The problem in the Hub is due to the fireworks you don't like.

Not just the fireworks, also the assorted Castle Shows. They have made the Castle the focal point for a lot of entertainment. I can see why, but it would probably help to spread things around a bit more.

 

[beer dave]

They have been back since and have done small videos of the booths. They all liked what they tried no complaints. They also said the food at flower and garden was better than what they remember from food and wine.

Food and wine..... remembering...... not often those two are in the same sentence.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The problem in the Hub is due to the fireworks you don't like.

It's a misconception that I don't like the fireworks...I liked them better when they were better the first couple of years and they have gotten really a stale.

I love illuminations and always will...but it needs to be pastured. Just too long and there IS a significant, high spending, repeat clientele that has to be served. You have to pay your offensive line or the QB gets killed.

If they maintained a consistent, Disney tradition schedule of addition and refurb/repurposing...the "hub problem" would be mitigated...

But they haven't done enough even in mk...too much worry of dessert parties...VHS projections on the castle wall and 75 Halloween/Christmas parties.

And it highlights another problem from before you're time...the shops on Main Street have been gutted to nothing. Used to be a better effort there too...now streamlined into oblivion. Tons of people shown the same stuff...no draw for the "backbone"
Audience there either.

 

[Sweettears]

man…i hate it when this happens…

this was always the end game: concrete to crowd sardines with no direct benefit other than more can space fore the sardines. Everybody seemed to think it was such a "great idea" when they started pouring…but i just KNEW it was gonna end up in an uglier, less convenient park.

and like-a HEEERRRREEEE we go

I totally agree with you LOL. The problem comes back to the casual visitor. Most of them could care less about something like a rose garden. It's the long time visitor that cares about and notices the absence.

Goes back to the theme of labor cost. I'm willing to bet that watering and pruning concrete takes less labor than a rose garden.

 

[rteetz]

It's a misconception that I don't like the fireworks...I liked them better when they were better the first couple of years and they have gotten really a stale.

I love illuminations and always will...but it needs to be pastured. Just too long and there IS a significant, high spending, repeat clientele that has to be served. You have to pay your offensive line or the QB gets killed.

If they maintained a consistent, Disney tradition schedule of addition and refurb/repurposing...the "hub problem" would be mitigated...

But they haven't done enough even in mk...too much worry of dessert parties...VHS projections on the castle wall and 75 Halloween/Christmas parties.

And it highlights another problem from before you're time...the shops on Main Street have been gutted to nothing. Used to be a better effort there too...now streamlined into oblivion. Tons of people shown the same stuff...no draw for the "backbone"
Audience there either.

I understand. I also agree with you on the shops even though I never got to experience the old shops.