New Winter 23-24 incentives are live

[Sandisw]

A $24k loan @ 10% would be around $2400 a year in interest….

It is, but then you just use that as a cost you pay, for however long you need to, and then extend the break even point.

We had no issue financing if we needed to…fortunately things happened that we didn’t…because we had a set amount of funds we’d spend every year for vacation…and the interest fit in there.

Granted, some view things differently and that is okay. Everyone had to be comfortable with what they decide and now they decide if DVC works.

 

[thelionqueen]

It is, but then you just use that as a cost you pay, for however long you need to, and then extend the break even point.

We had no issue financing if we needed to…fortunately things happened that we didn’t…because we had a set amount of funds we’d spend every year for vacation…and the interest fit in there.

Granted, some view things differently and that is okay. Everyone had to be comfortable with what they decide and now they decide if DVC works.

Good point about extending the break even point…never thought of it like that.

I enjoy my DVC points, it’s my entertainment in every way. I have a “creative” way of justifying my Disney spend. I still pay way less for better accommodations than if I didn’t have DVC so that’s something. I vacation at Disney with or without DVC but with, even paying financing dollars, is still less than if I booked through Disney

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Good point about extending the break even point…never thought of it like that.

I enjoy my DVC points, it’s my entertainment in every way. I have a “creative” way of justifying my Disney spend. I still pay way less for better accommodations than if I didn’t have DVC so that’s something. I vacation at Disney with or without DVC but with, even paying financing dollars, is still less than if I booked through Disney

At the end of the day, all of us are justifying our Disney spend in one way or another. I’m sure a hardcore FIRE type would judge all of us for taking regular Disney vacations at all.

I cringe every time we shell out for Genie+, and yet we still do it because I put a subjective value on spending less time standing in line.

I tend to believe that all financing for DVC is a bad idea—but practically speaking, if your option was financing the summer VGF deal at $161/pt (or $183 with Magical Beginnings) vs saving 6 months but then paying $230/pt— you probably came our way ahead with even a 15% APR (assuming you then pay it off around 6mo). Having said that, financing with a plan to pay off inside a year is a totally different animal than planning to pay off over a decade or two— ESPECIALLY with Disney changing its model to make resale less valuable with restricted points, which makes the debt riskier.

I recognize that some people on these boards are very aggressive in lecturing about “no financing ever”, but many others are just trying to caution people who’ve never lived/invested in high interest rate environments to be aware of how much a 15% interest rate is going to add to the total cost of a purchase over 10 years (more than doubles the purchase price).

 

[Chili327]

Not everyone has $30-40k in passive income.

I financed through Disney at 9.9% last month and I am paying it off as quickly as I can

At the end of the day, all of us are justifying our Disney spend in one way or another. I’m sure a hardcore FIRE type would judge all of us for taking regular Disney vacations at all.

I cringe every time we shell out for Genie+, and yet we still do it because I put a subjective value on spending less time standing in line.

I tend to believe that all financing for DVC is a bad idea—but practically speaking, if your option was financing the summer VGF deal at $161/pt (or $183 with Magical Beginnings) vs saving 6 months but then paying $230/pt— you probably came our way ahead with even a 15% APR (assuming you then pay it off around 6mo). Having said that, financing with a plan to pay off inside a year is a totally different animal than planning to pay off over a decade or two— ESPECIALLY with Disney changing its model to make resale less valuable with restricted points, which makes the debt riskier.

I recognize that some people on these boards are very aggressive in lecturing about “no financing ever”, but many others are just trying to caution people who’ve never lived/invested in high interest rate environments to be aware of how much a 15% interest rate is going to add to the total cost of a purchase over 10 years (more than doubles the purchase price).

I just financed VGC because the perfect contract came up & they accepted my offer. (which I really wasn't expecting. lol)
I do plan to pay it off next year, so my interest should be pretty minimal & I'll get to book a trip for next Dec, which I wouldn't be able to do if I was saving until next year to start the search & purchasing process.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I wasn’t trying to knock financing in general, and I agree with @thelionqueen that 8% annualized for a few months is not a big deal. I used financing to float points for 6-months until an upcoming bonus or share payout hit.

My comment was only based on the prior discussion points that DVC direct was charging 10% rates (resale is likely higher with Monera at 18% on their website ) and the trade off on pulling the money from a retirement account (if it can be done without penalty or putting you into a significantly higher tax bracket) to pay the loan off vs leaving the money invested and paying the loan off over the life of the loan.

 

[thelionqueen]

At the end of the day, all of us are justifying our Disney spend in one way or another. I’m sure a hardcore FIRE type would judge all of us for taking regular Disney vacations at all.

I cringe every time we shell out for Genie+, and yet we still do it because I put a subjective value on spending less time standing in line.

I tend to believe that all financing for DVC is a bad idea—but practically speaking, if your option was financing the summer VGF deal at $161/pt (or $183 with Magical Beginnings) vs saving 6 months but then paying $230/pt— you probably came our way ahead with even a 15% APR (assuming you then pay it off around 6mo). Having said that, financing with a plan to pay off inside a year is a totally different animal than planning to pay off over a decade or two— ESPECIALLY with Disney changing its model to make resale less valuable with restricted points, which makes the debt riskier.

I recognize that some people on these boards are very aggressive in lecturing about “no financing ever”, but many others are just trying to caution people who’ve never lived/invested in high interest rate environments to be aware of how much a 15% interest rate is going to add to the total cost of a purchase over 10 years (more than doubles the purchase price).

All great points..And yes we all end up defending our Disney vacations in one way or another

Another example is us financing 220 points at GCV for $72 per point. The next month that went up to just under $100pp…ahh those were the days . And yes, financing long term isn’t the best but even that could be managed so that the financing costs are negligible.

For me, I have no other vices..no car payments, no mortgage, and CC debt I pay off monthly (or bimonthly if I buy GFV at $161 per point

 

[Chili327]

All great points..And yes we all end up defending our Disney vacations in one way or another

Another example is us financing 220 points at GCV for $72 per point. The next month that went up to just under $100pp…ahh those were the days . And yes, financing long term isn’t the best but even that could be managed so that the financing costs are negligible.

For me, I have no other vices..no car payments, no mortgage, and CC debt I pay off monthly (or bimonthly if I buy GFV at $161 per point

Is that Grand California??

 

[Chili327]

I wasn’t trying to knock financing in general, and I agree with @thelionqueen that 8% annualized for a few months is not a big deal. I used financing to float points for 6-months until an upcoming bonus or share payout hit.

My comment was only based on the prior discussion points that DVC direct was charging 10% rates (resale is likely higher with Monera at 18% on their website ) and the trade off on pulling the money from a retirement account (if it can be done without penalty or putting you into a significantly higher tax bracket) to pay the loan off vs leaving the money invested and paying the loan off over the life of the loan.

I'd say you'd be right that financing "in general" isn't a great idea, but sometimes it is worth doing.
My current is 13.9% w/ Monera for 8 years, but i should have it paid off early next year... otherwise it will turn out to be a bad decision.

 

[davidhr]

If you're not being irresponsible with your finances, financing isn't a bad decision if you understand what you're doing.

People love to say that you shouldn't buy if you don't have the cash to buy DVC. Let's be honest, the overwhelming majority of people don't have +30k available to spend in a purchase like this. But a lot have some discretionary income to pay the mortgage.

Yeah, they can save for 5-6 years until they have the cash. By that time maybe the resort they want isn't available anymore, the price might be much higher, etc. But the most important thing is they lost 5-6 years waiting to enjoy something they wanted and could've started enjoying earlier with financing.

And let's not fool ourselves. We make the math for DVC work for ourselves to justify this purchase. I'm willing to bet that for 99% of people, myself included, it's an emotional purchase and the correct financial decision would have been to invest that money. But life is too short to make the "best" financial decision every time. You also have to enjoy your life, and sometimes it costs money to do it. Financing is a cost some are willing to accept, and that's perfectly fine.

I'm honestly not surprised that +50% of people are buying with financing. If anything, I find that number low.

Going back to the incentives, I'm not too surprised about the unattractive incentives for Riviera. For a while DVD has been looking like they're ok if Riviera is taking their time to sell. We can debate the reasons, but they definitely don't seem to be in a rush to get rid of the remaining Riviera inventory as soon as they can.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

All great points..And yes we all end up defending our Disney vacations in one way or another

Another example is us financing 220 points at GCV for $72 per point. The next month that went up to just under $100pp…ahh those were the days . And yes, financing long term isn’t the best but even that could be managed so that the financing costs are negligible.

For me, I have no other vices..no car payments, no mortgage, and CC debt I pay off monthly (or bimonthly if I buy GFV at $161 per point

I would borrow at 50% rates to buy VCG for under $100 a point.

 

[thelionqueen]

Is that Grand California??

Yep!! Sure was!
I was a CM at the time and they had a fire sale

 

[Chili327]

Yep!! Sure was!
I was a CM at the time and they had a fire sale

So jealous…
I lived in the area and was an AP holder but had no idea about DVC at the time, otherwise I might have jumped in, even at the regular rate.

 

[BamaGuy44]

All great points..And yes we all end up defending our Disney vacations in one way or another

Another example is us financing 220 points at GCV for $72 per point. The next month that went up to just under $100pp…ahh those were the days . And yes, financing long term isn’t the best but even that could be managed so that the financing costs are negligible.

For me, I have no other vices..no car payments, no mortgage, and CC debt I pay off monthly (or bimonthly if I buy GFV at $161 per point

We get this same tedious debate any time financing is mentioned. People make all kinds of assumptions and want to "educate" people on they should spend their own money

The fact is on a pure financial basis, DVC or ANY WDW vacation is a terrible decision. Any vacation at all is terrible financially, I mean you'd be way ahead just leaving the money in an index fund, right? This entire forum exists to discuss frivolous, expensive luxury purchases, so the pearl clutching about DVC financing is quite amusing to me.

 

[thelionqueen]

We get this same tedious debate any time financing is mentioned. People make all kinds of assumptions and want to "educate" people on they should spend their own money

The fact is on a pure financial basis, DVC or ANY WDW vacation is a terrible decision. Any vacation at all is terrible financially, I mean you'd be way ahead just leaving the money in an index fund, right? This entire forum exists to discuss frivolous, expensive luxury purchases, so the pearl clutching about DVC financing is quite amusing to me.

Good point! Vacationing is a luxury to some but not me. I put the exact same emphasis on my DVC payment as I do my rent. I prioritize vacations because they’re important to my life & well being…others don’t vacation ever.

In a more recent example, I financed a good portion of my recent VGF contract at $161pp. Had I waited even a month, I’d be paying $230 a point/33% more. There is value beyond a mathematical calculation. I’m certain there are folks that debated buying VGF during the summer promo who opted not to for their own reasons..who are kicking themselves now. I’m not..no FOMO here, and couldn’t have pulled the trigger without financing. That peace of mind and satisfaction is beyond a dollar amount and well worth whatever interest I pay to have secured it.

Back to these abysmal incentives. I truly don’t get it. Maybe that’s their whole plan? Keep everyone confused? Not a good tactic imo. I also don’t foresee any Black Friday deals. Whomever is leading the DVC pricing seems perfectly comfortable with not selling points.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Good point! Vacationing is a luxury to some but not me. I put the exact same emphasis on my DVC payment as I do my rent. I prioritize vacations because they’re important to my life & well being…others don’t vacation ever.

Oh I agree 100% about prioritizing vacations. Trust me we've spent a lot of money traveling all over the world. Most of our friends and family think we're crazy (They're probably right) I'm just saying from a pure financial perspective they don't make any sense, especially WDW, one of the most expensive ways to vacation there is. Just like it would be smarter financially for me to drive a 12 year old Corolla. It would be safe and do everything I need a car to do. But I choose to spend more because I want to and can afford it.

I apply the same logic if I choose to pay some interest to have my DVC contract sooner, and at current prices vs waiting. But fear not, DIS board watchdogs, I'll only be wasting my money and not yours

 

[Sandisw]

We get this same tedious debate any time financing is mentioned. People make all kinds of assumptions and want to "educate" people on they should spend their own money

The fact is on a pure financial basis, DVC or ANY WDW vacation is a terrible decision. Any vacation at all is terrible financially, I mean you'd be way ahead just leaving the money in an index fund, right? This entire forum exists to discuss frivolous, expensive luxury purchases, so the pearl clutching about DVC financing is quite amusing to me.

Exactly….and I would personally rather spend my money and enjoy my time at WDW with my family and friends, they leave a whole bunch of it to them to have when I am gone.

We balance life with financial goals…as long as someone knows all the pros/cons then they can make the decision right for them.

Compared to current cash rates, even with a discount, we get a great deal of value out of the rooms we book every year and that is enough for us!

 

[AstroBlasters]

I think it’s important to note that you do not have to own DVC to take a Disney vacation or a vacation in general.

At some measurable level the price per point or the interest rate paid if financing would make it a disadvantages purchase.

Let’s take the VDH resale contract for sale. If you run over to Monera a no credit check loan ,with $3460 out of pocket for down payment and closing costs, for someone with a 700+ credit score is 17.9% and would have a monthly payment of $455 for 12 years.

That’s close to $70,000 for the contract over 12 years not including dues or the TOT.

Add it dues and TOT and you are at ~ $91,600 (without inflation) or $7,633 per year over that 12 year period for an amount of points that gets you 7 nights in a deluxe PV studio.

Over the same dates a deluxe hotel room is $615 a night. So, you can usually get a 20% discount on rack rate down to around $500 and pay the TOT to get to $575 per night or $4025 per year.

If you took the cost savings of $3608 per year and put it in a CD paying 5% every year at the end of 12 years you would have ~$57,431 (I’m not putting in anything to do with inflation).

At 185pp you could then take those CDs and buy a VDH contract for 380 points.

So, the rates and your timeframe to pay back the loan definitely matter when deciding if it’s worth it to purchase DVC vs just rent DVC or pay cash for a room.

 

[NEW-B]

You can't assume it will stay at $185pp for 12 years. You also can't assume the nightly rate will not increase over those 12 years. That's the whole point of buying into DVC in the first place, financed or not.

 

[BamaGuy44]

I think it’s important to note that you do not have to own DVC to take a Disney vacation or a vacation in general.

At some point the price per point or the interest rate paid if financing would make it a disadvantages purchase.

Let’s take the VDH resale contract for sale. If you run over to Monera a no credit check loan ,with $3460 out of pocket for down payment and closing costs, for someone with a 700+ credit score is 17.9% and would have a monthly payment of $455 for 12 years.

That’s close to $70,000 for the contract over 12 years not including dues or the TOT.

Add it dues and TOT and you are at ~ $91,600 (without inflation) or $7,633 per year over that 12 year period for an amount of points that gets you 7 nights in a deluxe PV studio.

Over the same dates a deluxe hotel room is $615 a night. So, you can usually get a 20% discount on rack rate down to around $500 and pay the TOT to get to $575 per night or $4025 per year.

If you took the cost savings of $3608 per year and put it in a CD paying 5% every year at the end of 12 years you would have ~$57,431 (I’m not putting in anything to do with inflation).

At 185pp you could then take those CDs and buy a VDH contract for 380 points.

So, the rates and you timeframe to pay back the loan definitely matter when deciding if it’s worth it to purchase DVC vs just rent DVC or pay cash.

Yeah I don't think anyone would argue paying 18% for 12 years is a great plan. Money is not cheap like it has been the past decade or so. Changes the calculus quite a bit for sure

 

[RichVIII]

I agree with prioritizing vacations.

And like @BamaGuy44 - our friends often think we are crazy we travel so often. We did Aulani, Australia and NZ this past year and skipped some WDW. We are far from wealthy, but it is how we spend our money and we strategize with points, airline and hotel credit cards. A trip to WDW is often cheaper (other than sunk costs) and easier than most vacations.

We lost a dear friend this past year - he went to sleep one night and didn't wake up the following day - he wasn't even 50. He, like many people, were planning or thinking of trips - he. never. got. to. take

And yes, we all justify the spending - just like our friends who eat out all the time, have NFL season tickets, etc. Experiences matter!