NEW VGF Building

[CaptainAmerica]

This may been discussed as I have only read about 30 pages of this thread so far but: Any speculation about the number of points that will be sold as VGF2? I could foresee this seriously messing with the points charts for VGF1 as I imagine there will be a rebalancing of sorts once this new bucket o points get popped into an existing resort's total. What happens if the initial points cost for a VGF2 studio is 20% higher than a VGF1 studio and then year 2 comes around and DVC "adjusts" the chart across VGF in general which slides the points cost for all other rooms up? Just thinking of how this expansion will be used to screw existing owners....

There is no such thing as VGF2. There is one property, called VGF, and it will have one points chart.

 

[Nabas]

There is no such thing as VGF2. There is one property, called VGF, and it will have one points chart.

VGF2 is the abbreviation that has been widely used across multiple threads to refer to the VGF expansion.

There is nothing to legally that forces Disney to use the same point charts at VGF1 and VGF2.

For example, Jambo House and Kidani Village are part of the same association yet Jambo has 4 room categories (Standard, Savannah, Value, Club) while Kidani only has two.

SSR is a single association yet Disney manufactured a completely new room category at SSR years after it was sold out.

As far as I know, the only legal restriction is that the total number of points cannot change.

To the previous poster’s point, there is nothing legally preventing Disney from, for example, creating a point chart for VGF2 that’s significantly higher than VGF1 and then later rebalancing the points so that rooms at VGF1 require more points than they do today.

But it would cause outrage among existing DVC members. I can’t imagine Disney wanting to create such a firestorm, especially since DVD has twice backed down after trying to sneak lockoff room premiums past existing members.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

VGF2 is the abbreviation that has been widely used across multiple threads to refer to the VGF expansion.

Thank you, I'm well aware.

There is nothing to legally that forces Disney to use the same point charts at VGF1 and VGF2.

I'm not making a legal case about what Disney MUST or MUST NOT do, I'm making a logical case of what would be reasonable for them to do.

For example, Jambo House and Kidani Village are part of the same association yet Jambo has 4 room categories (Standard, Savannah, Value, Club) while Kidani only has two.

This is an inaccurate analogy. Value and Club rooms at Jambo are *different offerings* than anything that is available at Kidani. My point is, a Standard View at Jambo uses the same points chart as a Standard View at Kidani, and Savanna View at Jambo uses the same points chart as a Savanna view at Kidani.

To the previous poster’s point, there is nothing legally preventing Disney from, for example, creating a point chart for VGF2 that’s significantly higher than VGF1 and then later rebalancing the points so that rooms at VGF1 require more points than they do today.

Why would they do this? You're proposing this nightmare scenario that screws members trying to book the now-more-expensive "VGF1", but in this very scenario, existing members benefit from the now-less-expensive "VGF2."

 

[RoseGold]

Value and Club rooms at Jambo are *different offerings* than anything that is available at Kidani.

Well, get ready for VGF theme park view! I expect completely new charts that exceed VGF1. Seems like a no brainer to me. I actually expect at least three new categories, which will make them difficult to waitlist.

This will put pressure on the lock offs. IMO it will also pressure the 2BR and 1BR. These are currently fairly easy to book, but I can see that changing with more points in the mix and not many larger room to the number of points issued.

As a VGF 1 owner, i like this. I think it actually makes my 11 month priority even more valuable. And I think VGF2 pricing will be insane, which I’m also happy with.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well, get ready for VGF theme park view! I expect completely new charts that exceed VGF1. Seems like a no brainer to me. I actually expect at least three new categories, which will make them difficult to waitlist.

I completely agree with this part. New categories because the rooms are *actually different* in accommodations and views strikes me as entirely legitimate and probable. What I'm objecting to is the grand conspiracy to dilute the value of existing points by using VGF2 as a backdoor route to jacking up the points costs of the existing rooms.

 

[Nabas]

I completely agree with this part. New categories because the rooms are *actually different* in accommodations and views strikes me as entirely legitimate and probable. What I'm objecting to is the grand conspiracy to dilute the value of existing points by using VGF2 as a backdoor route to jacking up the points costs of the existing rooms.

I understand your objection to the grand conspiracy. I also don’t see it happening. However, I also cannot ignore Disney’s multiple money grabs in recent years:

1. Two attempts to sneak DVC lockoff premiums.
2. End of premium annual pass discounts for DVC members.
3. End of free Magic Bands.
4. Charging hotel guests for parking.
5. End of Disney’s Magical Express.
6. Charging guests for FastPass.
7. And more.

When you think about it, the entire VGF2 project is nothing but a money grab. Cancel a new DVC resort that was going to cost Disney hundreds of millions and replace it with a quick and inexpensive conversion of an existing building.
Heck, from what has been announced so far, the converted rooms won’t have refrigerators or microwaves!

These aren’t timeshares; they are hotel rooms with a DVC sticker slapped on them.

Really, based on Disney’s recent behavior, the grand conspiracy is not so far fetched.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I understand your objection to the grand conspiracy. I also don’t see it happening. However, I also cannot ignore Disney’s multiple money grabs in recent years:

1. Two attempts to sneak DVC lockoff premiums.
2. End of premium annual pass discounts for DVC members.
3. End of free Magic Bands.
4. Charging hotel guests for parking.
5. End of Disney’s Magical Express.
6. Charging guests for FastPass.
7. And more.

None of this has anything to do with what we're discussing.

When you think about it, the entire VGF2 project is nothing but a money grab. Cancel a new DVC resort that was going to cost Disney hundreds of millions and replace it with a quick and inexpensive conversion of an existing building.

Disney would have made much more money selling a brand new resort than they will with this conversion. They made the switch because they were cash-strapped in the short-term as the result of the pandemic. "We don't have the cash to do Reflections right now" is not the same thing as "we don't want to build Reflections because VGF2 is more profitable." It isn't. They made the less profitable decision as a short-term cash management measure.

Heck, from what has been announced so far, the converted rooms won’t have refrigerators or microwaves!

They absolutely will have refrigerators, what are you talking about? Even All Star Music has refrigerators.

As to the microwaves, I'm glad there will be an offering without the wasted space of the kitchenette. I know nothing screams "deluxe accommodations" like members being able to microwave their Eggo waffles in the morning, but I won't miss it for a single second. And the upgrade from a couch to a second ACTUAL bed is a huge win for families.

 

[Nabas]

They absolutely will have refrigerators, what are you talking about? Even All Star Music has refrigerators.

Disney announced that these rooms will have “beverage coolers”.

The typical beverage cooler looks something like this:

 

[nuhusky123]

None of this has anything to do with what we're discussing.


Disney would have made much more money selling a brand new resort than they will with this conversion. They made the switch because they were cash-strapped in the short-term as the result of the pandemic. "We don't have the cash to do Reflections right now" is not the same thing as "we don't want to build Reflections because VGF2 is more profitable." It isn't. They made the less profitable decision as a short-term cash management measure.


They absolutely will have refrigerators, what are you talking about? Even All Star Music has refrigerators.

As to the microwaves, I'm glad there will be an offering without the wasted space of the kitchenette. I know nothing screams "deluxe accommodations" like members being able to microwave their Eggo waffles in the morning, but I won't miss it for a single second. And the upgrade from a couch to a second ACTUAL bed is a huge win for families.

I am 100% aligned with you. Good bye microwave, don’t let the door hit you on the way out and thanks Disney for two queen beds. I’ll take this Luxury hotel room any day of the week

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Disney announced that these rooms will have “beverage coolers”.

The typical beverage cooler looks something like this:

View attachment 616212

If the refrigerators at VGF2 look anything like that, I'll give you 200 SSR points.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I am 100% aligned with you. Good bye microwave, don’t let the door hit you on the way out and thanks Disney for two queen beds. I’ll take this Luxury hotel room any day of the week

Now we just need to convince them to offer something with a single King.

More diversity in accommodations is a good thing. It's not an upgrade or a downgrade, it's just different. It'll work better for lots of people, so it's a win for them, and those people won't clog up the other room types, so it's a win for everybody.

 

[nuhusky123]

A king with a Murphy bed and no kitchenette and we have a real winner

 

[Sandisw]

If the refrigerators at VGF2 look anything like that, I'll give you 200 SSR points.

So why state they would have beverage coolers then if they were going to be a simple mini fridge?

I can definitely see them considering playing with the point structure with the new points added to the resort total once things are sold out. That’s what happened with the treehouses.

I’m here now and I see them having two categories of rooms. Sell the points at the same point level as current ones and then adjust to make them lower and raise the initial building ones.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I think the beverage coolers will be like what’s in DCL staterooms. Maybe there will be a view premium, but otherwise I do expect them to cost less than lake view in the original VGF. That’s my hope.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So why state they would have beverage coolers then if they were going to be a simple mini fridge?

The thing that we call "mini fridge" at Disney resorts, including existing studios, has TECHNICALLY not been a mini fridge for multiple refresh cycles. It's an energy saving thing.

This thing, at Gran Destino for example, is a cooler, not a refrigerator.

I think the beverage coolers will be like what’s in DCL staterooms.

I've never cruised DCL, but beverage coolers like the one above are *already* the standard at every Disney studio and standard room that's been refurbished recently. There is nothing unique about VGF2 in this regard.

 

[Nabas]

I think the beverage coolers will be like what’s in DCL staterooms. Maybe there will be a view premium, but otherwise I do expect them to cost less that lake view in the original VGF.

Sure, that’s a possibility but VGF2 rooms are larger, so that’s an argument to charge more for VGF2.

My preferred solution is to do something similar to Jambo/Kidani and have 5 categories of Studios:

1. VGF1 Standard View (x points per night)
2. VGF2 Standard View (also x points)
3. VGF1 Water View (y points)
4. VGF2 Water View (also y points)
5. VGF2 Theme Park View (z points)

VGF2 is closer to the main building and quiet pool.

VGF1 is closer to parking and is easier to drop off and pick up luggage.

VGF2 rooms are larger and have 2 queen beds.

VGF1 rooms have sinks and microwaves (I.e. kitchenette).

By making similar view rooms the same number of points per night, people will book what works best for them rather than book what’s cheapest, which is what happens at every other DVC resort.

Really, the closest comparison is Jambo and Kidani. Studios at Jambo tend to book first but there are fewer of them.

My guess is that if the two resorts are the same number of points, VGF1 Studios will book first. But this primarily is because there are only 47 VGF1 Studios.

You don’t hear much complaining from AKV owners. Emulating it just seems the way to go.

 

[bobbiwoz]

The thing that we call "mini fridge" at Disney resorts, including existing studios, has TECHNICALLY not been a mini fridge for multiple refresh cycles. It's an energy saving thing.

This thing, at Gran Destino for example, is a cooler, not a refrigerator.

View attachment 616314


Yes, that’s basically what the DCL staterooms have!



I've never cruised DCL, but beverage coolers like the one above are *already* the standard at every Disney studio and standard room that's been refurbished recently. There is nothing unique about VGF2 in this regard.

Yes, that’s basically what the DCL staterooms have!

I really like the split baths in VGF. Tubs are hard for me to maneuver and there I have a stand up shower without having to get a 1 bedroom!

 

[Sammie]

I am 100% aligned with you. Good bye microwave, don’t let the door hit you on the way out and thanks Disney for two queen beds. I’ll take this Luxury hotel room any day of the week

Me too.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

None of this has anything to do with what we're discussing.


Disney would have made much more money selling a brand new resort than they will with this conversion. They made the switch because they were cash-strapped in the short-term as the result of the pandemic. "We don't have the cash to do Reflections right now" is not the same thing as "we don't want to build Reflections because VGF2 is more profitable." It isn't. They made the less profitable decision as a short-term cash management measure.


They absolutely will have refrigerators, what are you talking about? Even All Star Music has refrigerators.

As to the microwaves, I'm glad there will be an offering without the wasted space of the kitchenette. I know nothing screams "deluxe accommodations" like members being able to microwave their Eggo waffles in the morning, but I won't miss it for a single second. And the upgrade from a couch to a second ACTUAL bed is a huge win for families.

Well now I will say not everyone wants two beds instead of a bed and couch. We like getting out of the bed. Having a space to sit, a real table and chairs is priceless to us. Looks like you won’t be competing for my DVC studio and I thank you for that!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well now I will say not everyone wants two beds instead of a bed and couch. We like getting out of the bed. Having a space to sit, a real table and chairs is priceless to us. Looks like you won’t be competing for my DVC studio and I thank you for that!

Completely agree. Exactly like I said in a subsequent post:

"More diversity in accommodations is a good thing. It's not an upgrade or a downgrade, it's just different. It'll work better for lots of people, so it's a win for them, and those people won't clog up the other room types, so it's a win for everybody."