New Sub Ride ??

Turner's getting off paying only 2million. That's some cheap advertising for a movie reportedly made while on a Meth Binge.

Well, Lewis Carroll was probably chasin the dragon when he wrote "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland".

I am expecting the same level of genius from this movie.

"The Highlander was a documentary and the events happened in real time"
- Mastershake
 
We go for the memories about what the place used to be. I assure you that When AV and I are at Disneyland, we are having plenty of fun.

I don't understnad why it's so hard to understand how one could both enjoy what's still there, the memories, the old attractions and still criticize the current company.

I own a Ford truck. I think Ford is currently doing a terrible job. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy driving my truck.

It's not hard to understand how someone could criticise disney and still enjoy going, but based on the posts on this thread, not many people enjoy going. Nearly all the posts have been about how disney is trying to foist a substandard product on an unsuspecting public, with very little said about positive aspects of the company or the parks. It's kind of like going to a movie and saying that you don't like the acting, the script or the soundtrack, but you love the movie. :confused:
 
What is understood, doesn't need to be discussed.

I love Pirates of the Caribbean. Current Disney has not done one single thing that has altered my opinion of that ride.

They tried, but the changes were ultimatly irrelevent to my opinion. I love it no more and no less. Same with the Haunted Mansion. Why should I praise current managment for not screwing this up yet? Of course, I'm referring to DL's Haunted mansion. MK's Haunted mansion is the poster child for ruined Disney.
 
Well, Lewis Carroll was probably chasin the dragon when he wrote "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland".

I am expecting the same level of genius from this movie.

"The Highlander was a documentary and the events happened in real time"
- Mastershake

You have to be a genius to make a fast food value meal funny enough to have a cult following.

"They opened their presents in front of the great red santa ape and Christmas was celebrated at each full moon"
-Cybernetic Ghost of Christmas Past from the Future
 

They tried, but the changes were ultimatly irrelevent to my opinion. I love it no more and no less. Same with the Haunted Mansion. Why should I praise current managment for not screwing this up yet? Of course, I'm referring to DL's Haunted mansion. MK's Haunted mansion is the poster child for ruined Disney.

I really liked what they did to POTC. The Jack Sparrow is amazing.
 
It's not hard to understand how someone could criticise disney and still enjoy going, but based on the posts on this thread, not many people enjoy going. Nearly all the posts have been about how disney is trying to foist a substandard product on an unsuspecting public, with very little said about positive aspects of the company or the parks. It's kind of like going to a movie and saying that you don't like the acting, the script or the soundtrack, but you love the movie. :confused:

Maybe this will help... You're taking the comments as an overall commentary of the parks/resorts in general. That's not the vein in which they are meant. They are meant as a commentary on the current overall philosophy and direction of the company and its managment.
 
Why should I praise current managment for not screwing this up yet? Of course, I'm referring to DL's Haunted mansion. MK's Haunted mansion is the poster child for ruined Disney.
If anything should have made you happy it was the handling by DLR for JC, HM, and POTC.

We have DLR management adding enhancements that made some people happier about the rides while at the same time still keeping the ride to your liking as well as almost everyone else. This is a positive yet you don't see it that way.

You notice that WDW management doesn't add enhancements nor do they do a much needed refurb to their rides and state this is a negative, which I completely agree with.

For you it appears that the glass is either half empty or completely empty when in fact its sometimes completely full. With JC, HM, and POTC all being plussed as well as updated and cleaned up, this should have been something that would have met with your approval and your only comment is "they didn't screw up yet".
 
I'm late to this one and a bit out of touch. YoHo, when you are referring to HM at WDW as being screwed up. What have they done to it? And what kind of "plusses" to JC are people referring to? I've been out of the loop for a little while. Some clarification please. Thanks
 
For you it appears that the glass is either half empty or completely empty when in fact its sometimes completely full. With JC, HM, and POTC all being plussed as well as updated and cleaned up, this should have been something that would have met with your approval and your only comment is "they didn't screw up yet".

JC, ok, nice "plus".

HM, I haven't seen the "plusses" yet, so can't really comment.

I haven't seen the PotC changes at DL, only MK. I like each of the changes individually. For example, the mist screen is a nice effect, and the quality of the animatronics is good. But the way they are added makes no sense. It tries to inject some kind of basic plot to the whole thing, which conflicts with the plot in the movies, and doesn't mesh well with the loose plot that was already in place. It feels very "thrown together".

So you're not going to get agreement from me that this was a win-win. But let's set that aside for a minute.

The problem... the thing that irks some of us is not the tally sheet of what was done well this week vs. what was done poorly. Its the overall guiding philosophy. To stick with this example, so many attractions are allowed to deteriorate past the point where rehabs/updates should happen. Sure, they EVENTUALLY happen, but much of the time it's only when there is a "synergistic opportunity", or if the attraction is really about to fall apart.

So even if I were to completely agree that the three rehabs you described were well done, that doesn't change the fact that the overall philosophy behind when rehabs/updates are done or not done has not changed.

DL did get its massive and LONG overdue cleanup for the 50th, but will it continue, especially now that the guy who was behind it is gone? We're starting to hear more about overdue rehabs at WDW now, which is a strong indication that its business as usual at the company level.

What we want changed is the WAY they do things.
 
I can agree with you on many things, Raidermatt. I just think If you want a disney fan to understand the point of view that Disney has problems, complimenting Disney at times can help you in the long run.

Many people on this board have only been to WDW. Pointing out how DL has done a good job on many of their rides can help others realize the MK is being ignored. Having ridden both versions of many rides allows me to understand much of the dissatisfaction expressed here. I won't even go on the MK's Space or Mansion next time I visit in April, they are that bad.

Since coming here a couple years ago you and others have opened my eyes to many things I wasn't noticing and thats good. Just remember though that giving the occasional prop to Disney when its called for will only help in the long run for others to also understand what is going on. By convincing us the info eventually gets to Disney when I or others fill out questioneers, surveys, etc.
 
I know what you are saying. Honestly, I used to feel the same way, before I really started looking into Disney's history, and how they do things vs. how they did them in the past.

I couldn't understand why some couldn't give credit where it seemed due.

But the thing is, once you really understand what has happened to the Disney company, you realize that it's really pointless to sit here and make lists, and say this turned out right, that turned out wrong. You could do the same with any successful company on the planet.

What drew us to Disney, whether we realize it or not, was the direct result of HOW and WHY they did things. Not everything they did was "magical" or even a success. But the point was, they stuck to a way of doing things that others lacked the vision, talent and drive to do.

Now, really, they essentially run things just about like any other company would. The only real difference is they have an incredible foundation they can take advantage of.

I mean, really, you look at a place like DCA or even MGM or AK, and we can't sit here and say nobody else was capable of doing something like that. Its just that nobody else has Disneyland, the Magic Kingdom and Epcot to add on to. If Six Flags opened any of those parks (DCA,MGM,AK) just as they stand today somewhere else, they'd be just another theme park. Nice, maybe even successful, but certainly not beyond the capability of anybody else.

So its really pointless to tally up things that appear to be done well today, just as its pointless to go back to Walt's day and rag on things that didn't work out well. As I said, we could find good and bad in every company that has ever existed. Why bother with Disney? Again, its because of the HOW and WHY, and that's really the only thing that matters.

Now, talking about Disney the company and its vision and methods is different than talking about how much fun I had on my vacation. There's plenty of other places to share trip reports about how much fun WDW or DLR are. I even read and contribute to some. But here we try to focus on the how and why.

All that said, I DO say positive things about Disney. Certainly I think many of the things created back when Disney was REAL Disney are awesome, but I've also said I really like/enjoy things created since. For example:
-lluminations is incredible
-When Tapestry of Nations was around, I raved about it.
-Soarin' is a great ride (though it should have some story/themeing around it).
-Tower of Terror (in MGM) is very well done.
-I really like the look and feel of Animal Kingdom, and Kilamanjaro Safaris is mostly well done.
-Philharmagic is well done.
-WDW has some really nice dining experiences.

And I personally still love visiting both WDW and DLR. We are DVC members and spent 15 nights at WDW last year, and have another 15 night trip scheduled this year.

All of this is stuff that I've mentioned around here at various points.

But I'm not going to put it as a disclaimer in every critical post I make. Its distracting and pointless. Further, even though I do make some positive comments, I still get the same sarcastic responses as those who don't bother to throw compliments around. Complaining about somebody not complimenting a nice cleanup of an attraction is a red herring. That lack of a compliment isn't really the problem.

The disconnect is that some view the criticism as a personal attack on something they love. I know, because I felt the same way when I started reading this kind of stuff years ago. To a certain extent, its like when someone criticizes a loved one. The first response is to circle the wagons and get very defensive. Some never get past that point.

The truth is, we also care about the loved one at least as much as anybody else out there. But we're the family member that is trying to sit the person down and get them back on track.

Believe me, I realize its pretty much a futile effort, but as long as I still care, I can't see doing it any other way.
 
The disconnect is that some view the criticism as a personal attack on something they love.

Exactly,
"You can't be critical of the big faceless corporation I love, it makes me feel bad about all the money I've invested in Snowglobes."

Incidently, Matt, thanks for spelling it out. I hate to break out of my.....idiom.
 


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