New Sub Ride ??

[YoHo]

No it is you who are wrong.

Unless you have access to some IQ tests and personality profiles that I don't, you have nothing with which to base your statement. I don't have much either, but so what?

 

[MJMcBride]

No it is you who are wrong.

Unless you have access to some IQ tests and personality profiles that I don't, you have nothing with which to base your statement. I don't have much either, but so what?

Exactly. You are also so bitter and angry that you have no credibility on any of these issues. But I suppose that doesn't bother you either

 

[Another Voice]

I do not know Robert Iger personally. All I can base my judgement on is his decisions. I think 'Dancing with the Stars', 'The Living Seas with Nemo and Friends, and the now former ESPN cell phone service (beloved by bookies everywhere) tells me he has no talent for running The Walt Disney Company.

He'd be much better off running a basic cable network somewhere.

 

[MJMcBride]

I do not know Robert Iger personally. All I can base my judgement on is his decisions. I think 'Dancing with the Stars', 'The Living Seas with Nemo and Friends, and the now former ESPN cell phone service (beloved by bookies everywhere) tells me he has no talent for running The Walt Disney Company.

He'd be much better off running a basic cable network somewhere.

whats wrong with the Living Seas?

 

[raidermatt]

Exactly. You are also so bitter and angry that you have no credibility on any of these issues. But I suppose that doesn't bother you either

That's awfully dismissive, not to mention presumptuous.

Just a suggestion, but you may want to consider the possibility that what you interpret as bitterness and anger could the be the RESULT of certain observations and conclusions, as opposed to the basis for them.

 

[raidermatt]

So Disney will spend if it makes sense. That is, if a ride has enough appeal they won't blow it up

Makes sense to who? Based on what criteria?

That's where the disconnect comes in.

whats wrong with the Living Seas?

They are resorting to characters and other gimmicks to cover up the fact that they aren't doing a very good job of making the subject matter entertaining.

 

[dbm20th]

They are resorting to characters and other gimmicks to cover up the fact that they aren't doing a very good job of making the subject matter entertaining.

But here we go with interpretations again. To me The Seas is a classic dark ride, in the tradition of Peter Pan's Flight, but with better technology and a major "wow" at the end. I don't call that gimmicks. This is a well executed addition to a Disney tradition. IMHO, of course

 

[Another Voice]

in the tradition of Peter Pan's Flight, but with better technology and a major "wow" at the end.

No interpetation here - 'Nemo' is wrong.

The theme behind Epcot is education through entertainment. There isn't the slighest hint of a whisper of a stab at a try to formulate a notion of a clue in the entire 'Nemo' ride that's about "education". It's a filmstrip retelling of the movie - a series of low-budget tablous designed to remind you of scenes from the movie. It's a commerical to remind you to buy the DVDs and the plush of your favorite character. There isn't a second of enjoyment to be had on the ride for anyone that hasn't seen the movie (discounting childern still in diapers amused by pretty lights).

There is nothing about the seas. There is nothing about the fish. There is nothing about the seagulls. There is not a single attempt to fit Epcot's theme. Had this thing been dropped in the Magic Kingdom, it still would have been a waste of capital, but at least the ride would have fit the park.

Instead, in Epcot, it hurts the pavilion by stripping away the educational and entertainment value it had. I know you want to believe this, but EPCOT Center showed there's a large audience for people who have matured beyond the spin-n-pukes and sparkly lights. This audience is harder to get – both in terms of talent and investment – and so Disney is focusing its efforts on easier prey.

But Disney is running a huge risk by alienating adults in favor of the cheap and easy crowd.

 

[raidermatt]

But here we go with interpretations again. To me The Seas is a classic dark ride, in the tradition of Peter Pan's Flight, but with better technology and a major "wow" at the end. I don't call that gimmicks. This is a well executed addition to a Disney tradition. IMHO, of course

At the risk of having my entire opinion dismissed, I haven't seen the new "dark ride" portion, just the exhibits and Turtle Talk.

Certainly the rest of the pavilion fits what I'm saying. As for the "ride", all I can say is that your description is the rosiest I've seen.

 

[MJMcBride]

That's awfully dismissive, not to mention presumptuous.

Just a suggestion, but you may want to consider the possibility that what you interpret as bitterness and anger could the be the RESULT of certain observations and conclusions, as opposed to the basis for them.

No its not. Its based on approximately 3215 previous posts and, more importantly, on the fact that he freely admits he had no basis for his opinion.

 

[MJMcBride]

At the risk of having my entire opinion dismissed, I haven't seen the new "dark ride" portion, just the exhibits and Turtle Talk.

Certainly the rest of the pavilion fits what I'm saying. As for the "ride", all I can say is that your description is the rosiest I've seen.

I think the new ride is certainly not the greatest thing since sliced bread. Its best described for me as "cute". I do think the effect at the end of the cartoon characters actually appearing in the tanks is fascinating. It can be enjoyed by people a bit older than the diaper crowd as long as there is no chip on their shoulders. Frankly, I think Turtle Talk is great use of a new tech. Hopefully, the Nemo ride is way to introduce kids to the world of oceanography and marine biology, like Turtle Talk. If it accomplishes that to any degree, its education to me.

 

[Another Voice]

Its best described for me as "cute".

Have you been on the ride yourself, or do you "no basis for [your] opinion"?

Hopefully, the Nemo ride is way to introduce kids to the world of oceanography and marine biology, like Turtle Talk.

That would have been done by the movie Finding Nemo. That's the only reason a child would want to go on this ride - to find out more. But the ride offers them nothing. Nothing more about the characters, nothing more about their world, nothing more than a reason to watch the DVD again.

Hell, before the ride opened children could see real clown fish - no that Disney has closed that area there's no education AT ALL in the pavilion. Any child that really becomes interested in marine biology is left with nothing but a store filled with plush. They have to go to Sea World to learn about a reef.

If it accomplishes that to any degree, its education to me.

If you really beleive that, then I have found a new definition of "sad and pathetic".

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Having been on the new Nemo ride recently I can say that we enjoyed the ride totally. It was fun ... But it has zero effect in being educational or in offering anything beyond a simple, kiddie ride featuring Nemo and friends ... Not what you'd hope for from Epcot by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[raidermatt]

No its not. Its based on approximately 3215 previous posts and, more importantly, on the fact that he freely admits he had no basis for his opinion.

Yes, it is. If you've really read all those posts, you'd know that. Its only the moron comment that he admits is "speculation". The anger and bitterness, as you interpret it, comes from a lot of observations and research into the way the company has changed. That has resulted in certain opinions about Disney's management. The moron comment is obviously hyperbole, but the opinions were not developed from anger and bitterness, the anger and bitterness is a result of the opinions on what Disney management has done to the company.

But of course you know that since you read all those posts about how he has reached his conclusions.

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

The last time that I was there (October) they had several volunteers discussing different animals in the tanks. Two in the central area, and one in the Manatee exibit. It was similar to the people that you often see in the Animal Kingdom. I thought that was very educational, and quite interesting. That aside, I did find it striking that the Nemo exibit was now missing in the Nemo pavillion. That was a great exibit, and until I read this thread I was hoping it was going to come back after they finished whatever they are doing with Turtle Talk. If Disney is now finished with the Seas, then they have added a really fun ride (My opinion), a nifty show (Again my opinion) and missed a huge opportunity to have revitalized what could be the best attraction in Epcot. With a little effort, they might really have hit it outta the park. So I sort of agree with AV and Raidermatt on this one, who I think really love Disney in their hearts by the way! Don't be fooled by their cynical ways.

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

Getting back to something mentioned earlier too, I think Mission Space was a miss-fire of enormous proportion. 200 million spent and a 10 minute wait the last 5 times that I was in the park. When Test Track had 75 and Soarin' was posting 100. And I ride it every single time I go to Epcot. Here's the thing though..........Only half the people in my party ride it with me. It's the only ride at Epcot that divides my family. Nemo has done just the opposite. I went early, but later in the day people were waiting 45 minutes to get INTO the pavillion. With a few extra touches around education, they could have the best and most impressive attraction in Epcot with the Seas.

 

[dbm20th]

Have you been on the ride yourself, or do you "no basis for [your] opinion"?"

Have you been on it? I somehow remember you saying recently that you have no desire to go to WDW...

That would have been done by the movie Finding Nemo. That's the only reason a child would want to go on this ride - to find out more. But the ride offers them nothing. Nothing more about the characters, nothing more about their world, nothing more than a reason to watch the DVD again.

That's what the rest of the pavilion is for, the Manatee exhibit, the aquarium. Using Nemo to draw the audience to those things is a an obvious positive effect

Hell, before the ride opened children could see real clown fish - no that Disney has closed that area there's no education AT ALL in the pavilion.

And you accuse others of not being there? You can still see the fish, AV. They haven't put a store in front of the tanks. Still there

If you really beleive that, then I have found a new definition of "sad and pathetic

I don't really understand this ridiculous stab. I was with little children who discovered manatees for the first time thanks to the Seas. I spent plenty of time with little ones who AFTER enjoying Nemo ooed and aahed at the sharks swimming by. The name calling really hurts your points.

 

[Another Voice]

Well – it’s obvious you haven’t seen the pavilion since the ‘Nemo’ ride opened (but it does sound like you did get the sheet of talking points). I have, it's one of the benefits of traveling too much for a living.

The side exhibits have been closed – the “real” Nemo and friends exhibits that had real clown fish, real anemoas – all the real animal from the movies. That was the real educational tie-in. It’s gone, rumors say it won’t be back.

You point that the ride is supposed to make children interested in the sea is, of course, completely bogus. The only reason children will go on the ride is because they’ve already become interested through the movie. The ride could have been a great bridge between the film and introducing children to the real ocean – but Disney lacked the will and talent to do so. All we’ve gotten is a cheap and uninteresting rehash of the film.

Worse still, the side exhibits have been closed – the “real” Nemo and friends exhibits that had real clown fish, real rays – all the real animal from the movies. That was the real educational tie-in. It’s gone; rumors say it won’t be back. That area was the connection between the child’s interest in the movie and growing their interest in the real world. Disney trashed that to make room for a large store.

The main tank is still there – but there’s no context any more. There’s no one explaining what you’re looking at. There’s nothing going on inside the tank. And there’s not even a connection between ‘Nemo’ and tank. Pointing, “ohhing and ahhing” at sharks is not education – and it’s an insult to claim that it is. Its animals are simply for entertainment. They might as well kill them all and replace them with film strips.

The entire point of EPCOT was to show that the real world can be just as exciting and fun as the fantasy world’s of the Magic Kingdom. But making education entertaining is hard to do. So once again, Disney has chickened out and produced the easiest, least imaginative “show” they could come up with. Today’s Disney isn’t interested in entertaining (and certainly not in education). They exist to sell you something.

And that’s all ‘The Living Seas with Nemo and Friends’ is these days - a place to sell you something.

 

[YoHo]

Have you been on it? I somehow remember you saying recently that you have no desire to go to WDW...

Well, you've just proven you haven't even read this thread very well.

 

[dbm20th]

Well – it’s obvious you haven’t seen the pavilion since the ‘Nemo’ ride opened (but it does sound like you did get the sheet of talking points). I have, it's one of the benefits of traveling too much for a living.

And yes I have, more than once. If I missed a post where you explained that, I apologize to Yo-ho and his lovely disposition. It does seem, however, that you missed some things.

The side exhibits have been closed – the “real” Nemo and friends exhibits that had real clown fish, real anemoas – all the real animal from the movies. That was the real educational tie-in. It’s gone, rumors say it won’t be back

Correct, I was also upset with that also. And if all we are talking about is "clownfish" then you are right. I was referring in the broader sense to the aquarium and manatees. Sorry if I didn't communicate that well enough.

You point that the ride is supposed to make children interested in the sea is, of course, completely bogus.

I'll do the best I can to keep from being as insulting as you or Yo-ho, but let me just say that you missed my point. In fact, I called it a "positive effect", and not the "point" of it. I think the point is what you say it is, to a certain degree. But I was there with loads of kids looking at the fish tank and listening to a naturalists educating. That's a positive effect. Intended or not, it is what it is.

There’s no one explaining what you’re looking at.

That's incorrect. You may not have been there at that time, but I was there twice for a naturalists speaking about both the tank and the manatees. (Didn't catch the actual title, so I use "naturalist" loosely) Two seperate occassions. I'll check again next week.

There’s nothing going on inside the tank.

What do you mean by this? Divers?

And there’s not even a connection between ‘Nemo’ and tank.

We agree here. I think the final scene was an attempt, but it doesn't work well enough.

Pointing, “ohhing and ahhing” at sharks is not education – and it’s an insult to claim that it is.

Again, you missed this. And the girl doing it was rather good.

They might as well kill them all and replace them with film strips.

Huh?