New Sub Ride ??

[dbm20th]

don't tell me people actually liked that thing. If it was truly popular, it would have stayed

Unless there was something wrong with it. That's where I get confused. If operational problems were not at issue, and the thing worked great and everyone loved it, was it really shut down to save some scratch? How much could it have saved?

By the way, I liked it...

 

[Another Voice]

If it was truly popular, it would have stayed.

You just refuse to understand, don't you.

The subs were killed because of labor costs. The ride took a lot of people to operate (one per sub, several people on the dock); it took a large maintance crew to service the motors on each boat and specialized scuba divers to maintain the show animation; the water had to be specially treated to maintain its clarity; and don't forget fuel costs. On top of the that it had a lower capacity than a lot of rides out there - high cost, low production.

Compare that to a typical spinner - one or two cast members, a couple quarts of oil, and to increase capacity you just cut the cycle time down even more. Minimal costs - high throughput.

No one cares about how much fun you're having, or how much enjoyment you get - you're nothing but a stat on a Power Point presentation showing how many rides you've been processed through to squeeze the planned per captia targets. All that Disney cares about is that you get the cheapest rides possible, not the popularity of any particular ride.

Oh - my magic computer and I made a quick swing through WDW just before the Holidays. I picked up the new Magic Kingdom DVD. Guess what - one of the extras on the disc is footage from '20,000 Leagues Under the Sea' - a "Magic Kingdom favorite". Seems even Disney has been forced to undo the lie and admidt this ride was popular with lots of people.

 

[YoHo]

From a practical perspective, the subs always had ridiculously long lines. Now granted, it's load time sucked, but if it was so unpopular, then the slow low time should have made people stay away. It didn't. The ride was popular up until close.

 

[MJMcBride]

From a practical perspective, the subs always had ridiculously long lines. Now granted, it's load time sucked, but if it was so unpopular, then the slow low time should have made people stay away. It didn't. The ride was popular up until close.

Popular compared to what? Peter Pan's Flight, I don't think so. You will never convince me that they will take a ride away strictly for cost no matter how popular it is because it doesn't make sense. I would agree with you that the costs to maintain it would be a factor even a subtantial factor. But you can bet popularity would be a factor too.

Did everyone hate it like Stitch? Of course not. But you cannot tell me it rivaled Splash Mountain or even the aforementioned Peter Pan for visitor interest.

Of course they care how much fun you're having. It affects the bottomline in the end. If all they cared about what getting you the cheapest rides possible, why build Everest? Why create all that illuision in that ride. Why not just build a steel coaster? Or a spinner with a cute little Yeti in the middle?

 

[EUROPACL]

Of course they care how much fun you're having. It affects the bottomline in the end. If all they cared about what getting you the cheapest rides possible, why build Everest? Why create all that illuision in that ride. Why not just build a steel coaster? Or a spinner with a cute little Yeti in the middle?

They tried that already for AK and it didn't work. Everest is far from the "WOW Disney has done it...they're Back to Haunted Mansion type building and design."

 

[MJMcBride]

They tried that already for AK and it didn't work. Everest is far from the "WOW Disney has done it...they're Back to Haunted Mansion type building and design."

Fine. But it certainly cost siginifcant cash even if you don't like it

 

[EUROPACL]

Fine. But it certainly cost siginifcant cash even if you don't like it

Never said I don't like it...heck I think its a "good" addition to AK something that should have been done 5 years ago along with at least two other E-ticket and a couple of D-ticket attractions. It still does not mean that Disney is back, they are still looking at the parks as cash cows and could really care less if you are blown away by the rides. It was/is a stop gap measure that is a little too late. I could also care less how much it cost, overpaying for a coaster that can be found at Six Flags less a big furry robot is not somethiing that impresses me.

 

[dbm20th]

They tried that already for AK and it didn't work. Everest is far from the "WOW Disney has done it...they're Back to Haunted Mansion type building and design."

Speak for yourself. I think that is exactly what Everest is!

 

[Another Voice]

You will never convince me that they will take a ride away strictly for cost no matter how popular it is because it doesn't make sense.

Yea, right.

Remember back when they cancelled the Early Entry program because “it wasn’t popular” and we got a bunch of characters in the lobby to wave to us because “we wanted more character interaction”? Of course you do.

Now you do want to repeat “Disney never closes something due to cost irregardless of popularity?”

Or a spinner with a cute little Yeti in the middle?

Because they had already solved the ‘rides-per-visit’ issue with a cheap, cute little spinner with a dinosaur in the middle. And notice that we got a spinner instead of of the previously announced ‘Beastly Kingdom’ and its roller coaster.

The public wasn’t stupid, and the spinner failed to attract any more guests to Animal Kingdom. Disney was forced back to their original design and had to offer up a thrill ride (done as cheaply as possible – they couldn’t even finish the friggin’ mountain).

But it certainly cost siginifcant cash even if you don't like it

The entire cost of ‘Expedition: Everest’ cost about as much as 14 minutes of the Pirates movie sequels. “Significant” is a relative term.

I think that is exactly what Everest is!

Yea, some people were gaga over 'Mission: Space' too. Now Disney has to print ads for the ride on 'Test Track' FastPasses. Novelty fades. Being the only real thrill ride in an entire park helps, but no one is booking a plane ticket just to 'E:E'.

 

[EUROPACL]

Speak for yourself. I think that is exactly what Everest is!

I was... notice how I didn't say "dbm20th thinks"?

However a certain phrase does come to mind...

 

[dbm20th]

Yea, some people were gaga over 'Mission: Space' too. Now Disney has to print ads for the ride on 'Test Track' FastPasses. Novelty fades. Being the only real thrill ride in an entire park helps, but no one is booking a plane ticket just to 'E:E'.

I didn't say that about Mission:Space, Test Track or anything else since ToT, and maybe KS. But E:E has that type of appeal...to me

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

The public wasn’t stupid, and the spinner failed to attract any more guests to Animal Kingdom. Disney was forced back to their original design and had to offer up a thrill ride (done as cheaply as possible – they couldn’t even finish the friggin’ mountain).


The entire cost of ‘Expedition: Everest’ cost about as much as 14 minutes of the Pirates movie sequels. “Significant” is a relative term.


Yea, some people were gaga over 'Mission: Space' too. Now Disney has to print ads for the ride on 'Test Track' FastPasses. Novelty fades. Being the only real thrill ride in an entire park helps, but no one is booking a plane ticket just to 'E:E'.

AV, I usually agree with you cause your posts always make sense. But, the novelty of MS didn't waear off... The fact that the ride made hundreds sick and were named in 2 deaths kept people away... Even with that, how many times during the summer was MS wait time over 100 minutes?? Plenty of times.... And if we are going to say Disney closed rides cause of operational costs, then TT should have been closed already cause that ride breaks down every day..... Imagine the maintenance costs for that attraction? Disney was trumpeted for spending over $100 million on a waste like MS, but you consider them cheap by spending $100 or more on Everest?? And the mountain is done..... Disney's motto, if it is backstage, then nothing to fix... and the part of the mountain that is not fully complete is backstage..... and was, in fact, painted.....

 

[Another Voice]

But E:E has that type of appeal...to me.

And I don't disagree with that.

But, "Disney is a business". It's important for any investment, and for their long term health, that what they build is appealing to a large number of very diverse people of many different age groups for a long period of time.

That's very hard to do.

An attraction needs to remain popular for thirty years or more. A ride that's popular just when it's new and novel fails its purpose. A ride has to attract a wide variety of people, becasue Disney parks draw from all areas of the country, lots of different nations, and families composed of great-grandparents to toddlers. A ride that's only popular with coasterfreek teens fails in the broader business task.

Disney has fallen victim to the quick fix. There is no one inside the company that has a long term interest or vision in the parks. We get solutions to specific issues Marekting's PowerPoint presentation - but a long string of temporary fixes only leads to long term failue. Witness the Califorina Adventure saga.

Making sure that Disneyland or the Magic Kingdom remains a great place to visit isn't a concern for some resume-punching MBA suit in a cush Team Disney building somewhere; but is of mine. It's probably an interst to most of the people on this board - especially those of you that have sunk the cost of your child's college education into 50 years of vacation points.

An educated consumer base - that lets Disney know load and clear what we want - is going to be the only way the company stays afloat, stays Disney in the years ahead.

 

[Another Voice]

Even with that, how many times during the summer was MS wait time over 100 minutes??

Yet at my recent visit at around 11:00 am the wait for 'Soaring' was over 90 minutes, Fast Passes for 'Test Track were only available for late, late in the afternoon - but the standby line for 'Mission' was 5 minutes.

No matter what the cause, few people want to go on 'Mission: Space'. Whether the attraction is a bad show or is just too rough for Disney audience - it's failed it's business purpose. It's the new 'Body Wars' - a super hyped ride that no one will mourn ten years from now when it's closed for good. And it's just another Disney short-term fix that's caused long term damage. Imagine what else could have been built with Compaq's $100 million that would have entertained and inspired guests for decades.

Sorry, but the unfinished butt end of the 'Everest' looms over the parking lot - it's the first thing you see approaching Animal Kingdom. To dismiss that as "offstage" is seriously wrong. Like the castle in the distance or SpaceShip Earth right in front of you - 'Everest' is the first impression people get of Animal Kingdom.

Come to think of it, half finished, imcomplete and cheap is a pretty good representation of AK - but that still shouldn't be the message Disney sends to the guests as they park their cars.

 

[YoHo]

I was... notice how I didn't say "dbm20th thinks"?

However a certain phrase does come to mind...

Are you trying to imply that walks along the scenic LA river aren't the height of romance? as bullets fly from gang wars and railcars clang by in the night?

 

[raidermatt]

Even with that, how many times during the summer was MS wait time over 100 minutes?? Plenty of times....

That was not my experience when I was there for over 2 weeks last Summer. I never saw a posted wait for M:S over 25 minutes, while I never saw a wait shorter than 60 minutes posted for Soarin', and it was usually 70+.

Not that Soarin' is an example of "Disney done right", but its clear that M:S has problems on a much bigger scale.

But E:E has that type of appeal...to me

But aren't we trying to do more than just share our personal experiences?

 

[YoHo]

That was not my experience when I was there for over 2 weeks last Summer. I never saw a posted wait for M:S over 25 minutes, while I never saw a wait shorter than 60 minutes posted for Soarin', and it was usually 70+.

Not that Soarin' is an example of "Disney done right", but its clear that M:S has problems on a much bigger scale.


But aren't we trying to do more than just share our personal experiences?

Only if it proves that Disney is still magically magical. Any time we share more then personal experiences and it looks bad for Disney, we're supposed to run back to our corner and only talk about our feelings.

 

[MJMcBride]

But, "Disney is a business". It's important for any investment, and for their long term health, that what they build is appealing to a large number of very diverse people of many different age groups for a long period of time.

So Disney will spend if it makes sense. That is, if a ride has enough appeal they won't blow it up

 

[YoHo]

Assuming the company isn't run by greedy vindictive morons.

Unfortunatly it is run by greedy vindictive morons.

 

[MJMcBride]

Assuming the company isn't run by greedy vindictive morons.

Unfortunatly it is run by greedy vindictive morons.

You're wrong