New Security Measures At The Parks

[Billinaz]

Your take puts Disney is in a no win situation. When they implement bag checks and enhance point of entry security, Disney is window dressing because it’s visible and can be avoided. If they remove bag checks and proactive measures, they leave visible holes that can be exploited.

I agree, Israel has the best security. I would bet they also search every bag and have passengers walk through scanners that can detect metal, bomb residue and every other dangerous substance known to measure. If security is a top priority, you get the best technology available. Disney has a decent budget so I would bet the portable detector has a few more bells and whistles. Disney can’t interview you for 20 minutes like EL AL.

I really don’t think Disney likes to window dress security. I watched Disney handle an unattended bag in Animal Kingdom Lodge. They had a security person stand next to the package until a K9 and its handler appeared out of a side door. The K9 sniffed the bag for approx 10 seconds (no bark) and the CM picked up the bag and 20 seconds all three were gone. I looked around and nobody standing/sitting in the lobby noticed!

The last thing Disney wants to do is portray reality. For Disney security to go to visible measures, I believe a credible threat exists. The next time you enter MK and place your magic band on the sensor, look directly up at the camera dome and count the number of optic lenses. Each camera dome has (5) lenses. If Disney wanted to window dress, they would place one optic lens in each dome and multiply the security camera “window dressing” by five. Disney doesn’t do that because they want covert security.

Well, they are in a no win situation. I work in a profession that is the same. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

Israels airport success isnt bag searches, it's people. The ticket agents watch people and assess their probability of threat. The problem is they use things that would be called racist in this country even though what they are doing clearly works. If Disney used this effective tool they would be sued....

Israeli Airports don't rely on electronic scanners. They train their people to look for threats and it works well.

The WTMD they are using are standard magnetometers. It senses distortion in a magnetic field due to metal, nothing more.

BTW, the bomb detection dogs alert by sitting down....

 

[DVCPAT]

Well, they are in a no win situation. I work in a profession that is the same. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.

Israels airport success isnt bag searches, it's people. The ticket agents watch people and assess their probability of threat. The problem is they use things that would be called racist in this country even though what they are doing clearly works. If Disney used this effective tool they would be sued....

Israeli Airports don't rely on electronic scanners. They train their people to look for threats and it works well.

The WTMD they are using are standard magnetometers. It senses distortion in a magnetic field due to metal, nothing more.

BTW, the bomb detection dogs alert by sitting down....

If its my job and I’m damn if I do, damn if I don’t, I’m going with I do. How can you not especially if you have the budget?

I agree, Israeli success isn’t bag searches or technology, but its part of the security process. Remove these tools from the process, and Israeli interviewers job becomes much harder. Yes, Disney can’t do exactly what EL AL does, so they have to do what they can. Disney has to use every available form of security available during peak threat levels.

I’m having a hard time understanding the logic of removing basic bag searches and detectors because the bad guys can see them and they wont try…they can see the deterrent. What happens when you remove the visible deterrent like a bag check and a terrorist buys a couple 10” pieces of schedule 40 pipe and places it inside a bag?

I disagree with some of Disney decisions, but I don’t mind standing in line a few more minutes for safety.

 

[DVCPAT]

I will say that protection needs to go beyond just the parks. I am keenly aware of my surroundings at all times and we were on the monorail with a gentleman who was young, middle eastern, had an earpeice in and was carrying a young girls back pack but not traveling with anyone. He wouldn't make eye contact with anyone and I tried to engage him and he wouldn't look at me. I thought it was odd and before I had even read any of this and wondered about security on Disney transportation.

Yes, Disney security extends beyond the theme parks. It’s divided into two Branches, Parks and Resorts with five regions.


Mike 1 – Area surrounding MK and the north service area (WDW power plants, water treatment facilities, warehouses).

Echo 2 – Area surrounding Epcot.

Sierra 3 – Area surrounding Hollywood Studios.

Kilo 4 – Area surrounding Animal Kingdom including south service area.

Delta 5 – Area surrounding Disney Springs, Hotel Plaza Blvd and apartment complex for Disney College Program.

 

[Billinaz]

If its my job and I’m damn if I do, damn if I don’t, I’m going with I do. How can you not especially if you have the budget?

I agree, Israeli success isn’t bag searches or technology, but its part of the security process. Remove these tools from the process, and Israeli interviewers job becomes much harder. Yes, Disney can’t do exactly what EL AL does, so they have to do what they can. Disney has to use every available form of security available during peak threat levels.

I’m having a hard time understanding the logic of removing basic bag searches and detectors because the bad guys can see them and they wont try…they can see the deterrent. What happens when you remove the visible deterrent like a bag check and a terrorist buys a couple 10” pieces of schedule 40 pipe and places it inside a bag?

I disagree with some of Disney decisions, but I don’t mind standing in line a few more minutes for safety.

But the point is that Disney does have the resources to run 100% of every guest, employee, contractor through a metal detector. They can search every bag completely instead of a quick peek.

The problem is in the quantity of people this adds up to. They simply can not do it without severely limiting the numbers of guests they let into the park.

So if they put 1% of these people or less through a WTMD and take a quick peek into a bag without xraying it to see whats really in there, how does that really change anything?

My wife has a purse that has an integral holster built in. You cannot see it by looking into the bag. Has any bag search at Disney ever inquired about this compartment? Nope.

The repeating theme is this. If those who are destined on evil are in this world, do you think running 1% of the people in the park going to help? The answer is no. The 9/11 hijackers came at us in numbers from multiple locations. These terrorists may be radicalized and evil but they are not stupid. Every single person on those airplanes was scanned and their bags in the cabin were all x-rayed. They still accomplished an incredible mass murder of a soft target. They saw the deterrent and worked around it to accomplish their evil mass murders.

I was on a flight not too long ago where there were no less than 30 armed individuals. The only people who knew this were the armed individuals and the crew. What would have happened if that airplane was being hijacked like the 9/11 attack? I can tell you the answer is simple. The passengers would be safe, the terrorist not so much.

 

[Billinaz]

For those who say that banning a Buzz Lightyear blaster or POTC flintlock replica is ridiculous, I thought I would show you this. I have seen a plastic toy gun that looked exactly like a 1911 pistol on a guy that robbed a bank with it. I have seen toy guns modified to remove the orange tip, and I have seen real guns with an orange tip painted on it. Here is a photo of a fully functional shotgun concealed in a watergun. This may be the reason for the removal of the toy guns.

 

[DVCPAT]

But the point is that Disney does have the resources to run 100% of every guest, employee, contractor through a metal detector. They can search every bag completely instead of a quick peek.

The problem is in the quantity of people this adds up to. They simply can not do it without severely limiting the numbers of guests they let into the park.

So if they put 1% of these people or less through a WTMD and take a quick peek into a bag without xraying it to see whats really in there, how does that really change anything?

My wife has a purse that has an integral holster built in. You cannot see it by looking into the bag. Has any bag search at Disney ever inquired about this compartment? Nope.

The repeating theme is this. If those who are destined on evil are in this world, do you think running 1% of the people in the park going to help? The answer is no. The 9/11 hijackers came at us in numbers from multiple locations. These terrorists may be radicalized and evil but they are not stupid. Every single person on those airplanes was scanned and their bags in the cabin were all x-rayed. They still accomplished an incredible mass murder of a soft target. They saw the deterrent and worked around it to accomplish their evil mass murders.

I was on a flight not too long ago where there were no less than 30 armed individuals. The only people who knew this were the armed individuals and the crew. What would have happened if that airplane was being hijacked like the 9/11 attack? I can tell you the answer is simple. The passengers would be safe, the terrorist not so much.

I don’t think Disney needs to run everyone through metal detectors. Your already carrying a transmitter that’s telling Disney who you are. Its kind of scary how much info Disney knows about us. If your not a walking transmitter and in a particular area, Disney knows you don’t have access to that area and technology kicks in. One mouse click and your automatically under surveillance.

Thermal imaging is very similar to an earlier post showing Arnold Schwartzanegger being scanned while he walking down a hallway. Disney has so many cameras, they have to be a mix of biometrics, thermal imaging and surveillance. Combine this technology with individuals voluntarily carrying transmitters emitting name, address, etc…along with your exact location, Disney has a good idea of who you are.

 

[mummabear]

I don’t think Disney needs to run everyone through metal detectors. Your already carrying a transmitter that’s telling Disney who you are. Its kind of scary how much info Disney knows about us. If your not a walking transmitter and in a particular area, Disney knows you don’t have access to that area and technology kicks in. One mouse click and your automatically under surveillance.

Thermal imaging is very similar to an earlier post showing Arnold Schwartzanegger being scanned while he walking down a hallway. Disney has so many cameras, they have to be a mix of biometrics, thermal imaging and surveillance. Combine this technology with individuals voluntarily carrying transmitters emitting name, address, etc…along with your exact location, Disney has a good idea of who you are.

Assuming th information you have given them is correct and again assuming you are actualy carrying a card or band and not in an RFID blocking wallet

 

[FeralCatRogue]

I arrived in the parks yesterday and went to epcot around 4pm. I found security took faster then going thru the magic band scanners. The tram speech has been changed to remind that no toy guns, real guns, or self stick/extenders are allowed. Really didn't seem to ruin anyones fun. I know some people asked about the spinner "gun" fan toys, they are still sound in all their types so honestly it didnt seem any differnt at all. walking into the stores I would not have noticed anything missing unless i knew since light sabers were still sold, the light "gun" things, and some swords.

 

[maxiesmom]

For those who say that banning a Buzz Lightyear blaster or POTC flintlock replica is ridiculous, I thought I would show you this. I have seen a plastic toy gun that looked exactly like a 1911 pistol on a guy that robbed a bank with it. I have seen toy guns modified to remove the orange tip, and I have seen real guns with an orange tip painted on it. Here is a photo of a fully functional shotgun concealed in a watergun. This may be the reason for the removal of the toy guns. View attachment 141238

Holy crap! That might also explain why cops have been known to shoot people with toy guns on occasion. I guess they can never tell what is a real gun and what is a fake.

 

[MolonLabe]

Life must be so rough for you to feel the need to carry a gun with you everywhere. I have relatives that are retired police. They never carried off duty. In fact my bil never even brought his gun home. Never felt the need to have it. I trust the police and military so much to do their jobs that I don't feel the need to try and do it for the .

I find that extremely hard to believe, especially considering how violent that city is. Here is an example, from Christmas Eve, of a concealed carrier stopping a shooting in a very busy mal. No one else was shot, no kids with you guns were harmed, it was exactly happens numerous times a year. Good guys (And gals) stoppig bad guys in their tracks

http://buzzpo.com/good-guy-gun-stops-mall-shooting-shooters-identity-shocking/

 

[SensesFailed]

I find that extremely hard to believe, especially considering how violent that city is. Here is an example, from Christmas Eve, of a concealed carrier stopping a shooting in a very busy mal. No one else was shot, no kids with you guns were harmed, it was exactly happens numerous times a year. Good guys (And gals) stoppig bad guys in their tracks

http://buzzpo.com/good-guy-gun-stops-mall-shooting-shooters-identity-shocking/

Time to play devil's advocate just because:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/tex...ots-carjacking-victim-in-head-then-runs-away/

 

[Gracie09]

I find that extremely hard to believe, especially considering how violent that city is. Here is an example, from Christmas Eve, of a concealed carrier stopping a shooting in a very busy mal. No one else was shot, no kids with you guns were harmed, it was exactly happens numerous times a year. Good guys (And gals) stoppig bad guys in their tracks

http://buzzpo.com/good-guy-gun-stops-mall-shooting-shooters-identity-shocking/

Nyc is one of the safest large cities in the world and has been for years. For every "good" guy "saving the day" there are ten kids accidentally by fire arms if not more. My bil viewed his gun as a tool of his job. He never owned a personal weapon and never brought his gun home. No one in my family has ever been the victim of a violent crime or even close. We have lived in several large cities over the years. Never once felt the need to do the job of the police. That is fairly typical of the group of friends.

 

[Billinaz]

Holy crap! That might also explain why cops have been known to shoot people with toy guns on occasion. I guess they can never tell what is a real gun and what is a fake.

Exactly. I can tell you first hand. If you have a toy gun and point it at anyone, or in anyone's direction you should be ready to get shot. It boils my blood when the Monday morning quarterbacks start screaming that the officer shot a 14 year old "child" shot and killed him when it was only a toy.

I would LOVE to put these people in a stressful situation and see how they do when these things happen.

Who do I blame for these incidents? The police officer?..... NO, I blame the parents.

 

[Billinaz]

Nyc is one of the safest large cities in the world and has been for years. For every "good" guy "saving the day" there are ten kids accidentally by fire arms if not more. My bil viewed his gun as a tool of his job. He never owned a personal weapon and never brought his gun home. No one in my family has ever been the victim of a violent crime or even close. We have lived in several large cities over the years. Never once felt the need to do the job of the police. That is fairly typical of the group of friends.

Police officers still think of a gun as a tool, however in todays world the emphasis is on having that tool on you when you need it and not wishing you had. The current training is to always be armed, and remain vigilant where ever you may be.

As the victim of a carjacking by thugs with (simulated) firearms in NYC I can tell you first hand that calling NYC one of the safest large cities in the world is a tourist advertisement, not reality. Your statistic of 10 to 1 is obviously based on bad data. There is no way that is right. (but feel free to provide a source).



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/fbi-crime-stats-mixed-for_n_3439629.html

 

[freediverdude]

I went through the extra screening yesterday at MK. Basically they're looking for metal items. Don't see the point though since they're not screening everyone. Unless there is some other type of screening going on behind the scenes to get picked for the extra screening, but we don't know that.

 

[GaryDis]

I went through the extra screening yesterday at MK. Basically they're looking for metal items. Don't see the point though since they're not screening everyone. Unless there is some other type of screening going on behind the scenes to get picked for the extra screening, but we don't know that.

A couple of points:

• They're not just trying to prevent terrorists, they're also concerned about Aurora-type lunatics, as well as just well-meaning but careless gun owners
  
• While screening everyone would be more effective, that doesn't mean that sampling is totally ineffective. If nothing else, it might have made the person in the above linked article think twice. But it will also make *some* people with bad motives act nervously, and thus more likely to be subject to search.

Whether that means the steps being taken are sufficiently effective to justify both the cost and inconvenience, I don't know. I doubt anyone here knows. But we must remember that the inability to achieve perfect safety doesn't invalidate imperfect safety, and that small improvements are better than no improvements.

 

[Billinaz]

if you don't like the rules of Disney - don't go. But it's disgusting to go against the rules and carry when asked not to.

I hope your disgust extends to the jerks with the flash photos and backlit screens. I haven't enjoyed a POTC ride for years thanks to this.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I do not get the debate about bringing a gun into Disney even if you are LEO or have a permit. It's private property and if they say no guns, it's no guns. If you get busted bringing one in even if you are LEO, you can be escorted out by Disney security, plain and simple

 

[Billinaz]

I do not get the debate about bringing a gun into Disney even if you are LEO or have a permit. It's private property and if they say no guns, it's no guns. If you get busted bringing one in even if you are LEO, you can be escorted out by Disney security, plain and simple

I think it comes down to one of two things. Those who are aware of the dangers out there and want to keep their family safe and those who do not know anything about the evil that is out there and prefer to not think about their safety and think of the world as one big happy place where nothing ever happens to them.


I am reminded of LTC Dave Grossmans comparison to sheep and sheepdogs......

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

 

[mom2rtk]

I think it comes down to one of two things. Those who are aware of the dangers out there and want to keep their family safe and those who do not know anything about the evil that is out there and prefer to not think about their safety and think of the world as one big happy place where nothing ever happens to them.


I am reminded of LTC Dave Grossmans comparison to sheep and sheepdogs......

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

That's a false dichotomy.