New room concept: 'Family Studios' at Poly2 (speculation)

[ehh]

All the recent construction progress at the Poly Tower has been impressively quick, but what's caught my eye is the bay layout. There's a lot of 2+2 and 2+2+2+2 bay construction so far.

For clarity about what I mean by a "bay": a bay is the minimum unit a room with a window/patio can have. At tower resorts, Deluxe Studios are 1 bay, 1-Bedroom Villas are 2 bays, 2-Bedroom Villas are 3 bays, and GVs start at 6 bays and go up from there.

Take a look at this photo from bioreconstruct on Twitter:

Original tweet for larger version:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642310711060643841

The taller tower is mostly 2+2. The reason I call it 2+2 rather than 4 bays is due to the larger space separating the bays in the middle. You can even see concrete walls between the 2+2. These are not 4 equally spaced bays, two are separated from the other 2.

Even the shorter (for now) construction appears to be 2+2+2+2 if you look at the larger separating spaces and the few walls that are in place.

Problem is: a 2-bay configuration is kinda limiting. You can fit one 1BR or two Studios in them, but 2BR don't fit. And in a 2+2 that's either four Studios, two 1BR, or one 2BR-plus-Studio (with unbalanced proportioning considering the separating spaces). Alternatively, these could be 2-floor GVs using 8 bays, but the wall right down the middle makes that unlikely as it would be splitting the living area they like to keep grand and open. Of these options, two 1BR per floor seems the most plausible to me.

And the 2+2+2+2 has a similar problem as the 2+2. It's a little bit more flexible, maybe a 2BR-Studio-Studio-2BR or something like that, assuming 1BR can't/won't be split across large separating spaces. But there's still weird splits across the separating spaces, where the 3rd bay in a 2BR is cozier to your neighbor than to your own living room/middle bay.

But what if there were another option: a 'Family Studio'.

General idea behind it: take a 2-bay space and put two bedroom-style rooms in them and make it a single unit. Kinda like adjoining Studios, but more like a 2BR without some of the features that currently define Villas. Maybe it still has washer/dryer, or a little bit of a dining area, or a little bit of a living area, or a premium bathroom with larger tub, or a greater-than-a-kitchenette, but not necessarily all of that.

It would be a 2-bay room that is designed to properly sleep 6 (and maybe even up to 7-8) and has at least 3 good, queen-size sleeping surfaces, more than any Studio or 1BR.

It would be fewer points than a 2BR Villa and maybe similar to a 1BR Villa (after all, both are 2 bays). And it might address the cash value problem of 1BRs, where rack rate at WDW for 1BR is typically only 25-40% more than Studios despite being 2x the bays and ~2x the points.

It would be marketed towards families with two or more children but wouldn't meet the definition of a Villa, hence my speculative name "Family Studio". Families with two children might like that each child gets their own bed (or are at the age where they need their own beds), or families with three or four children just need more beds but don't need all of the features of a full 2BR Villa, or the points cost. There would of course be other uses, like an adult-only friends trip where they don't mind sharing a space but each person really wants their own bed.

And it would be a step toward minimizing DVC's least popular accommodation style (based on typical availability): the 1BR Villa, which sleeps just as many as a Studio or maybe 1 more (or sometimes even fewer...looking at you BWV, BCV, and BRV) and have the same number of good beds for 2x the points.

I'm sure I'm reading too far into the 2+2 and 2+2+2+2 bay thing, but also think a Family Studio would be more popular than a 1BR Villa. And I wouldn't put it past DVC to use Poly to experiment, similar to what they did with the original Poly being just Studios and Bungalows.

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe those bays in the tallest part of the tower will simply be tower studios that sleep just two, like at RIV?

But, if this is going to be a new association and not tied into all the studios at PVB, maybe? But, I just can't seem them adding more of the same to the location....I would assume they would want more 1 and 2 bedroom options.

I wish they would just let us know!!!

 

[ehh]

Maybe those bays in the tallest part of the tower will simply be tower studios that sleep just two, like at RIV?

But, if this is going to be a new association and not tied into all the studios at PVB, maybe? But, I just can't seem them adding more of the same to the location....I would assume they would want more 1 and 2 bedroom options.

I wish they would just let us know!!!

They might be smaller studios, hard to tell on the depth of the room. But either way, that's more small units.

The backside of the building also has the 2-bay arrangement on the left side of this photo and 2+2+2+2 obscured by the monorail (the single-bay construction might be an elevator lobby based on the taller bay openings presumably being for floor-to-ceiling windows and not sliding doors):

(from https://dvcnews.com/wdw-resorts/polynesian/5556-polynesian-tower-construction-update-april-2023)

Completely agree they probably wouldn't load the Tower with just Deluxe Studios and that they want the larger accommodations (regardless of final association), but there are no visible 3-bay configurations constructed yet that would be needed for 2BR.

This is exactly why I'm floating the idea of 2-bay 'Family Studios' that sleep nearly as many as a traditional 2BR Villa. It's a bigger accommodation, it fits into 2-bay spaces like a 1BR Villa, and it could be more popular than a 1BR Villa. And there's nothing stopping them from making 1BR Villas, too.

Just thought of another perk for DVC by doing this: cannibalizing 2BR with lower points rooms sounds bad, but it would actually be a higher point density in terms of points/bay:

• 2BR are generally ~2.65x the points of Deluxe Studios despite being 3x the bays, and are quite popular
• 1BR are generally ~2x the points of Deluxe Studios while being 2x the bays, but are lagging in popularity
• Hypothetical 2-bay 'Family Studio' would be 2x (or more) the points for 2x the bays
  • Three Family Studios would be ~6x (or more) the points of a Deluxe Studio and take up 6x the bays
  • Two 2-Bedrooms would be ~5.3x the points and take up the exact same amount of space

More points per bay means higher total points for the building, which means more sales for them. Replacing 2BR with Family Studios would be a >10% bump in points sold from those bays while appearing cheaper to buyers.

The calculated risk for cannibalizing 2BR is how much of the popularity of 2BR is because of the number of good sleeping surfaces vs. amenities like washer/dryer, living room, full kitchen, etc. If a significant number of people only/mostly care about the sleeping surfaces then a Family Studio fills that gap, especially if it's fewer points than a traditional 2BR Villa.

I think I've convinced myself that DVC ought to do this, which means they definitely aren't.

 

[Sandisw]

They might be smaller studios, hard to tell on the depth of the room. But either way, that's more small units.

The backside of the building also has the 2-bay arrangement on the left side of this photo and 2+2+2+2 obscured by the monorail (the single-bay construction might be an elevator lobby based on the taller bay openings presumably being for floor-to-ceiling windows and not sliding doors):

(from https://dvcnews.com/wdw-resorts/polynesian/5556-polynesian-tower-construction-update-april-2023)

Completely agree they probably wouldn't load the Tower with just Deluxe Studios and that they want the larger accommodations (regardless of final association), but there are no visible 3-bay configurations constructed yet that would be needed for 2BR.

This is exactly why I'm floating the idea of 2-bay 'Family Studios' that sleep nearly as many as a traditional 2BR Villa. It's a bigger accommodation, it fits into 2-bay spaces like a 1BR Villa, and it could be more popular than a 1BR Villa. And there's nothing stopping them from making 1BR Villas, too.

Just thought of another perk for DVC by doing this: cannibalizing 2BR with lower points rooms sounds bad, but it would actually be a higher point density in terms of points/bay:

• 2BR are generally ~2.65x the points of Deluxe Studios despite being 3x the bays, and are quite popular
• 1BR are generally ~2x the points of Deluxe Studios while being 2x the bays, but are lagging in popularity
• Hypothetical 2-bay 'Family Studio' would be 2x (or more) the points for 2x the bays
  • Three Family Studios would be ~6x (or more) the points of a Deluxe Studio and take up 6x the bays
  • Two 2-Bedrooms would be ~5.3x the points and take up the exact same amount of space

More points per bay means higher total points for the building, which means more sales for them. Replacing 2BR with Family Studios would be a >10% bump in points sold from those bays while appearing cheaper to buyers.

The calculated risk for cannibalizing 2BR is how much of the popularity of 2BR is because of the number of good sleeping surfaces vs. amenities like washer/dryer, living room, full kitchen, etc. If a significant number of people only/mostly care about the sleeping surfaces then a Family Studio fills that gap, especially if it's fewer points than a traditional 2BR Villa.

I think I've convinced myself that DVC ought to do this, which means they definitely aren't.

It would be an interesting concept but seems like it would be basically what PVB has with its connecting studios but just make it a bookable category.

While 1 bedrooms are point heavy based on sleeping surfaces, I love them even when traveling alone.

So, If we get more studio type spaces, even if connected, then it definitely changes mt interest.

 

[ehh]

It would be an interesting concept but seems like it would be basically what PVB has with its connecting studios but just make it a bookable category.

While 1 bedrooms are point heavy based on sleeping surfaces, I love them even when traveling alone.

So, If we get more studio type spaces, even if connected, then it definitely changes mt interest.

Yeah, essentially connecting studios as a bookable category. But they could be asymmetrical in terms of layout, might be able to fit in one of the Villa perks, like maybe washer/dryer but no full kitchen. They could make it a lot more marketable than 'guaranteed connecting studios'

Agree 1BR are very nice, wish we had more points to book them more often, we like them as a splurge! But overall they're also the least popular/most available of all the room categories (other than Bungalows/Cabins, which are a more extreme version of the points::sleeping surfaces issue). And they don't bring a good return when Disney rents them, only 25-40% more than a Deluxe Studio for 2x the points.

And they could still do them here. I think 'Family Studios' would mostly replace 2BR.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah, essentially connecting studios as a bookable category. But they could be asymmetrical in terms of layout, might be able to fit in one of the Villa perks, like maybe washer/dryer but no full kitchen. They could make it a lot more marketable than 'guaranteed connecting studios'

Agree 1BR are very nice, wish we had more points to book them more often, we like them as a splurge! But overall they're also the least popular/most available of all the room categories (other than Bungalows/Cabins, which are a more extreme version of the points::sleeping surfaces issue). And they don't bring a good return when Disney rents them, only 25-40% more than a Deluxe Studio for 2x the points.

And they could still do them here. I think 'Family Studios' would mostly replace 2BR.

It would be a new concept for sure. Definitely think people will be disappointed if that type of room replaces the two bedrooms. But such fun to speculate!

 

[Pens Fan]

If this tower goes studio heavy, we will not be interested. I know studios are the most popular booking category, but they really aren't for us. One of the main reasons we decided to buy into DVC was for access to the larger villas without having to pay the crazy cash prices for them. We love having the full kitchen, living area, laundry and space to spread out.

I do see what you're talking about, though. I just hope your interpretation is incorrect .

 

[ehh]

One of the main reasons we decided to buy into DVC was for access to the larger villas without having to pay the crazy cash prices for them. We love having the full kitchen, living area, laundry and space to spread out.

This is true for so many people and would be a challenge to overcome for sure. I would not want to see this at every resort in the future, that's for sure.

Just realized/remembered these types of 'Family Studio' rooms already exist at WDW: Family Suites at All-Star Music (and kind of AoA too, though AoA's lack sleeping surfaces).

ASM's Family Suites, after their recent refurbishment, have 1 permanent queen in the bedroom and 2 murphy queens in the 'living room'. Maybe "Family Suite" is the right name for this concept as it still avoids "Villa" but moves away from the baggage of "Studio".

ASM's rooms have a kitchenette with a full size fridge and a moderate amount of counter space, so basically a kitchen with no range or dishwasher. This seems like an interesting midpoint between Studio kitchenette and full Villa kitchen. Looks like there's no laundry, but laundry would be unusual for non-DVC.

Looking at the pictures (https://touringplans.com/blog/photos-renovated-all-star-music-family-suites-quick-photo-tour/), they could conceivably replace 1BR and 2BR--the rooms can kinda do both. When the beds are 'up' it's basically a 1BR. And when the beds are down you have the sleeping surfaces of a 2BR but no living room space.

 

[mamaofsix]

It really is strange that we've seen no concept art for the interiors yet.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Definitely something to think about.

 

[NoTime42]

Interesting. I don’t think it fits this discussion, but I’ve wondered about a reverse lockoff concept where the Master bedroom/bathroom with King bed could be a unit that sleeps 2, and the studio + kitchen/living room could be a sleeps 6/7 as more of a family suite.

 

[RoseGold]

What about the reverse, efficiency studios, like Tower Studios? Can you fit 3 of those? Both RIV and DLT had these to make the timeshare math work. I would expect to see those in Poly2. Maybe not a lot, but some.

 

[Chuck S]

I doubt we'll see anything like a "family studio" at what is being marketed as a "Deluxe Resort". What you're talking about is basically a value resort family suite at best, or a giant dorm room at worst. And I really can't see a fairly large family who needs that many beds NOT wanting a kitchen and in room laundry facilities. Plus it limits the flexability of the resort, the more room types you add, the less likely it will be to get the room type you want. Given the current DVC Configurations, it would be difficult to configure the Family studio into something like a 2 bedroom lock-off. Surely there will be a few regular studios in the tower, though, to enable the lock-off configuration. Or it could be like OKW, where there are NO free standing studios or one bedrooms, they can ALL be configured as a 2 bedroom lock-off.

 

[ehh]

I agree this is less likely than status quo (some mix of studios/duos, 1BR, 2BR, 2BRLO, and GV), despite the 2-bay construction pattern of what's constructed so far. The safe assumption is there will be fairly standard distribution of rooms, including 3-bay rooms (2BR, 2BRLO), weird neighbor balcony coziness and all. And that may get a lot clearer as construction progress, it's still very early.

But I do have a few bones to pick with some of your characterizations. In short, not everybody wants the status quo (especially non-members) and there might be more money for them by not limiting themselves to the status quo (see: reaching new families and higher points/bay density). I wouldn't dismiss it because it's different.

What you're talking about is basically a value resort family suite at best, or a giant dorm room at worst.

That's only the current association/perception you have, likely based on where it's currently implemented. Lots of DVCers likely share it too, especially those that have been in DVC for a long time. But Disney is world-class at marketing and could easily turn it into a deluxe perception...and existing DVCers may not be who they market it to.

Also, if you're looking at ASM as a direct example, the ASM bays are smaller than every DVC bay, so the ASM room is smaller than what would be in DVC. And obviously less premium.

Poly sold well despite zero traditional Villas. RIV Tower Studios are even more dorm room-ier than my silly idea and they appear to be successful (and are well marketed in a deluxe context). Heck, VDH is going to have dozens of Duo Studios. The Resort Studios at VGF and the rapid transition to installing Murphy beds everywhere show that DVC are seeing the value of 'more real beds' in accommodations, too.

DVC has demonstrated they're willing to experiment and evolve a little and they appear to have been successful in their experiments.

And I really can't see a fairly large family who needs that many beds NOT wanting a kitchen and in room laundry facilities.

A family of 3 or 4 is not large and could easily justify or prefer this.

It's as simple as not wanting children to share a bed (they probably don't at home) and wanting the children to have real-ish beds (they probably do at home), which is not a low bar to clear. It's just providing a vacation sleeping arrangement that's not worse than at home.

Example of a family of 3 or 4 that make this work:

• Parent(s) in the main bed; single parents travel with multiple children, too
• Child #1 in bed #2
• Child #2 in bed #3

To this type of family, everyone having their own real(ish) bed might be very deluxe for them, and the single biggest improvement over a 1BR/Studio/non-DVC room where siblings have to share a bed or get a tiny bed under a TV.

And a larger family, such as a family of 6, might see this as their least expensive way to stay at a deluxe resort and all stay in the same room. The likely points savings vs. a real 2BR might be very appealing to them.

I have zero doubt there are cohorts of families where this is a better fit than what exists in the DVC portfolio. (how large those cohorts are? I suspect sizable but I have no real data. How much do they want to buy into DVC? Also no idea)

And the vast majority of guests staying at WDW do not have in-room laundry or a full kitchen. Only DVC Villas have laundry or a full kitchen, and they're a minority of rooms. Laundry and a full kitchen are even a minority in recent DVC construction (Poly through VDH).

Even the nicest suites in Deluxe resorts often only have a 'big kitchenette', and it's plenty for a lot of people. Surely DVC has decent data about how many families actually use the stove, oven, or dishwasher, as well as how many consider them a necessity. Even if the majority, say 60%, consider it a necessity, that 40% that doesn't is a potential fit for this style of room.

And there's no reason why these rooms couldn't include laundry and a 'big kitchenette'. Including laundry feels like the most likely outcome, in my personal opinion. They just can't have everything a real Villa has while the beds are down, there just isn't the space.

Remember, a room type doesn't have to be for everyone (Tower/Duo Studios sure aren't), they just need enough demand to justify the supply. And these wouldn't be everywhere, just at Poly2 (for now), so everybody who does want them would only have a limited supply.

Plus it limits the flexability of the resort, the more room types you add, the less likely it will be to get the room type you want.

Adding more room types adds flexibility, almost by definition. Poly1 is the least flexible resort currently.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting Poly2 will only have these, there's already some 1-bay spots constructed that make that impossible. I am suggesting that we're seeing an excess of apparent 2-bay spots from what's been constructed so far. Considering 2-bay spots can only be one 1BR or two Studios/Duos based on existing room types, I started exploring what else they could do with those spots.

And not being able to get the room type you want is just an incorrect prediction of what rooms will be in demand by those who buy. Copper Creek got it pretty wrong. Poly got it mostly right (it helped that ~everybody knew they were buying just Studios). Riviera seems to have gotten it mostly right, though it's a little 1BR-heavy and PV-heavy based on booking patterns. Post-VGF2 VGF seems to have gotten the overall mix mostly right, too.

Does the room type mix prediction get harder with more room types? Probably a little. It's definitely harder with unprecedented room types. But you don't know which way the error is when you plan.

Again, Copper Creek got it wrong with their balance and Cabins being a points anchor, but I wouldn't automatically assume that any new room type is unpopular based on ultra-premium rooms missing the mark on popularity. Other new room types have done well. Tower Studios are often the most competitive room at RIV to book and VGF Resort Studios book pretty well (not as fast as the OG Deluxe Studios, but there are very few of the OG in comparison).

Overall, have an open mind. Sounds like this isn't right for you, it isn't for us either. But I think this could be supply for some unmet demand and also has the potential to mean more points sold for Disney due to higher points density.

 

[ehh]

Interesting. I don’t think it fits this discussion, but I’ve wondered about a reverse lockoff concept where the Master bedroom/bathroom with King bed could be a unit that sleeps 2, and the studio + kitchen/living room could be a sleeps 6/7 as more of a family suite.

I read this yesterday and I didn't understand, I'm sorry.

But I do now!

Basically a 'King Studio' that connects to [something] via lock-off. And that [something] could be a standard 1BR or even a 'Family Studio/Suite'. I dig it. I know we would likely book King Studios!

 

[Chuck S]

The Poly has traditional villas...studios, that can sleep 5. With a kitchenette. The only thing out of the ordinary is the 2nd bathroom. But it still fits into the definition of traditional DVC studio. AS far as more choices making avaiabily more limited, it does indeed do so. For instance, say there are 100 units total, And a mix of studios, 1 bed, 2 bed, and GVs. 40, 20, 20, and 20 units respectively. We all know studios will book up first. But wait, now we throw 10 non-standard studios into the mix, and all 30 traditional studios book upo. Now that limits studio people to th e modified studios AND there will be no possibility of a lock off 2 bedroom from those remaining studios. And, as you mentioned, the modified studios may have a small washer/dryers, or adifferent bed configuration....so now you hjave a seperate booking category for those 10 units, almost surely requiring more points than a standard studio. Where will those points fall? Maybe 50% more than a standard studio, whereas a one bedroom is generally 2x the number of points of a standard studio. WIll people be willing toput out those extra points for a stay? And then consider RCI/II trades, how would they be defined for trading purposes? There is a reason timeshares tend to stick near an industry standard,

 

[ehh]

The Poly has traditional villas...studios, that can sleep 5. With a kitchenette. The only thing out of the ordinary is the 2nd bathroom. But it still fits into the definition of traditional DVC studio.

Studios aren't Villas, both in naming and by DVC's criteria:

(from: https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/deluxe-villas-accommodations/)

AS far as more choices making avaiabily more limited, it does indeed do so. For instance, say there are 100 units total, And a mix of studios, 1 bed, 2 bed, and GVs. 40, 20, 20, and 20 units respectively. We all know studios will book up first. But wait, now we throw 10 non-standard studios into the mix, and all 30 traditional studios book upo. Now that limits studio people to th e modified studios AND there will be no possibility of a lock off 2 bedroom from those remaining studios.

You're just describing DVC getting the room mix wrong. That can, and does, happen without adding new room categories.

If the ideal is that everything books up at the same time, then it's a numbers game of predicting the demand distribution, regardless of how many room categories.

Adding an unprecedented room type does make that prediction harder because the demand for the new room type is more uncertain, but that's not a reason to not do it entirely.

They are clearly trying to adapt and improve, too. VDH is extremely studio-heavy, but so much so that I bet Preferred View Deluxe Studios are the last to book up despite the very high popularity of Studios.

Where will those points fall? Maybe 50% more than a standard studio, whereas a one bedroom is generally 2x the number of points of a standard studio. WIll people be willing toput out those extra points for a stay? And then consider RCI/II trades, how would they be defined for trading purposes? There is a reason timeshares tend to stick near an industry standard,

Again, the basic concept:

• 2-bay room like a 1 Bedroom Villa (which is 2x as big as a Deluxe Studio)
• 3 real(ish) sleeping surfaces like a 2 Bedroom Villa, but maybe 1-2 are Murphy beds
  • maybe also one of those under-TV mini pulldowns
• Studio-like features, maybe also laundry or a bigger fridge
• 2x the points of a Studio (same points as a 1BR), maybe they try to goose it to 2.1-2.2x out of greed (but I don't think they should)

You can think of it as a 1BR that trades spaciousness for more proper sleeping surfaces. Or a condensed 2BR that ditches the living space (or the living space is a flex space that can be sleeping surfaces or a living space). Or adjoining Deluxe Studios.

It would appeal to families that think a Studio or 1BR have insufficient real(ish) sleeping surfaces but also want a lower point room than a traditional 2BR Villa. It would also have a higher points-per-bay density than traditional 2BR, meaning more sales $ for DVC for the same amount of construction.

RCI is a solvable problem, I'm assuming they did for Treehouses, Bungalows, Cabins, and Tower Studios, which are also unique accommodations. I'm not even sure this room type is unprecedented in timeshares, but I have zero awareness of the broader timeshare world.

 

[ehh]

You can think of it as a 1BR that trades spaciousness for more proper sleeping surfaces.

I'm liking this description more and more.

It's a 1BR. But the living room converts to more high-quality, queen-size sleeping surfaces than current 1BR. Maybe the kitchen is downgraded to a big kitchenette and loses the stove, oven, and dishwasher.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't see that ever happening. Especially given that, generally, simply booking twp regular studios is about the same number of points as a one bedroom. Just book two studios. At OKW all studios hav 2 queen beds, so if you really need 4 real beds, and don;t want a one bedroom, there is your option.

The thing that MAY happen, but I doubt it, would be that new DVC construction would do the same,. and put two real beds into the studios.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm liking this description more and more.

It's a 1BR. But the living room converts to more high-quality, queen-size sleeping surfaces than current 1BR. Maybe the kitchen is downgraded to a big kitchenette and loses the stove, oven, and dishwasher.

Except that then completely changes the entire concept of a villa and home way from home....which is what happened with the resort studio additions to VGF.

I think that the MK loop now had plenty of options for families who want studio type rooms without the kitchen component...maybe what we might see is that they will make PVB connecting studios a booking category and fill the new Poly tower with traditional villas of 1, 2 and 3 bedrooms (along with some of the tower/duo studios that RIV and VDH have).

To me, it just does not make logical sense to add more studio like rooms to an area that is now pretty studio heavy and less heavy with larger units.