NEW Rejected Offers Thread

There are two ways to look at the studio vs. 1BR question.

1: How many heads-in-beds does it hold?
2: What is the vacation experience?

I happen to look at it via perspective #2. Most "regular" timeshare owners do as well. Many DVC owners look at it via #1. I can't decide if that's a failure of Disney marketing, or just the nature of the Disney parks experience.

I believe it's clearly the nature of the Disney Parks Resort experience. I know I've read that the reason most OKW rooms are larger than most other DVC resorts, including larger kitchens and eating areas, is Disney started with the expectation that people would use DVC the way they use other timeshares. But they (we) don't. Yes, some people do a lot of cooking and non-park vacations are a thing. But it turns out that overall people don't see DVC as a way to fundamentally change their WDW vacation experience. It's mostly just a way to prepay for WDW hotels, and eventually (probably) come out ahead. The kitchens, laundry and other features are a bonus but almost never the point.
I don't think Disney has ever really tried to market their way into changing this. Instead, they leaned into it, making DVC units overall and especially studios less and less like a true home away from home. It turned out that having a full kitchen or even actual refrigerator in some studios does not move the needle on selling more direct points.
 
I believe it's clearly the nature of the Disney Parks Resort experience. I know I've read that the reason most OKW rooms are larger than most other DVC resorts, including larger kitchens and eating areas, is Disney started with the expectation that people would use DVC the way they use other timeshares. But they (we) don't. Yes, some people do a lot of cooking and non-park vacations are a thing. But it turns out that overall people don't see DVC as a way to fundamentally change their WDW vacation experience. It's mostly just a way to prepay for WDW hotels, and eventually (probably) come out ahead. The kitchens, laundry and other features are a bonus but almost never the point.
I don't think Disney has ever really tried to market their way into changing this. Instead, they leaned into it, making DVC units overall and especially studios less and less like a true home away from home. It turned out that having a full kitchen or even actual refrigerator in some studios does not move the needle on selling more direct points.
And it's part of the reason I knew the old timers were wrong when they got all upset about the "Resort Studio" rooms at Grand Floridian.

Most (not all, but most) DVC buyers don't care about "villa" style accommodations. They just want hotel rooms that they can book with points. Microwaves and laundry and sofas that face the TV and kitchenettes (much less full kitchens) are not needle-movers.

If DVC launched a resort that let you book guaranteed connecting Studios, those would instantly become the most popular units in the whole system.
 
it turns out that overall people don't see DVC as a way to fundamentally change their WDW vacation experience. It's mostly just a way to prepay for WDW hotels, and eventually (probably) come out ahead. The kitchens, laundry and other features are a bonus but almost never the point.
It didn't change my WDW vacation experience. Instead, it allowed me to replicate my vacation experience onsite. And that's probably why I never understood the evolution of DVC.

We did not come to DVC from (Disney) hotels. We were anti-hotel-room from the start. Going back to our first "family" vacation when my oldest was one and my youngest was in-utero, at a minimum we wanted a suite-style/Residence Inn kind of place. Our most common early-days vacation was renting a house in OBX for a week with extended family. Very quickly, the minimum unit size we'd consider for a week-long vacation was a 2BR. Roughing it was when we were at a timeshare without in-unit laundry. We did squeeze into a 1BR at OKW for our first DVC exchange, and I actively resented not being able to use the living room while the kids were sleeping/napping. Heaven knows what it would have been like without the large veranda off the bedroom.

We are also not open-to-close park commando people. I was a HUGE TourGuideMike stan---it's marathon, not a sprint; take mid-day breaks; work in mornings or evenings off; all of it. Time back at the resort resting and relaxing was always a big part of our theme park trips, and not just at Disney. We did the same thing during long weekends at Cedar Point, our trips to the Smokies and Dollywood, Unviversal, etc. etc. etc. We've tried to push it, and it never works out for us. Our vacations are just better when we take the parks in moderation.

some people do a lot of cooking and non-park vacations are a thing
Interestingly, this isn't how we use the villas. We do have breakfast in every morning, but as often as not that's cereal, peanut butter toast, some fruit, whatever, and by 10AM we're eating again. We also usually had one dinner in during the course of a week, but again that was assembly, not cooking. And we never took a full "resort day" where we didn't go to the parks at all. We might have only gone in for a few hours on one or two days during the week, but we'd go.

But, when we come back from a four or five hour rope-drop through lunch morning to recover before going back in for a show, the kids retreated to their room, we'd hang out in the living room reading, knitting, whatever, and I might pull out some chips and salsa or cheese and crackers. And, at some point during the trip, my wife and I would look at each other and one of us would say: "Hotel rooms. Huh. How would that work, anyway?" I mean, I knew people did it, but I had trouble imagining how that would work.

Next year, for Spring Break, I am forcing myself to try a RIV studio for my stay to see how it works out. I may have someone join me for part of the week, but mostly I will fly solo. This is not my first solo trip, and in the past they have always been in 1BRs, because that's the smallest unit size that gets deposited to RCI/Interval. But two years ago it felt like I was rolling around in a 1BR Kidani unit, and the size of it felt, for the first time, uncomfortably large.
 
And it's part of the reason I knew the old timers were wrong when they got all upset about the "Resort Studio" rooms at Grand Floridian.

Most (not all, but most) DVC buyers don't care about "villa" style accommodations. They just want hotel rooms that they can book with points. Microwaves and laundry and sofas that face the TV and kitchenettes (much less full kitchens) are not needle-movers.

If DVC launched a resort that let you book guaranteed connecting Studios, those would instantly become the most popular units in the whole system.
But I don't think this is what most "old timer" VGF1 purchasers were upset about when BPK opened. The problem was that it drastically increased competition for the original 47 "Deluxe" Studios in the main building that were quite honestly, already sometimes hard to get. Now, they are a dogfight to get. Many who purchased VGF1 had no desire to stay in the BPK hotel rooms, but now, that is often all that may be available.

Now that the precedent is set, I've always thought that they may try something similar at RIV, tearing down Aruba at CBR and putting in some version of Bungalows/Cabins (maybe "Mediterranean Villas"?) where they could have a boatload of points to sell and sell people on that if they buy there, they can access the Tower Studios and Standard View Villas...

My other gripe with BPK gets back to the head-count concept. I think that since BPK are essentially hotel rooms, they should have maintained the hotel room model and made some of them with a King sized bed instead of 2 queens. For us, that would have made them much more desirable. However, DVC decided to stick as many people as possible in every single one of the BPK rooms...
 

But I don't think this is what most "old timer" VGF1 purchasers were upset about when BPK opened. The problem was that it drastically increased competition for the original 47 "Deluxe" Studios in the main building that were quite honestly, already sometimes hard to get. Now, they are a dogfight to get. Many who purchased VGF1 had no desire to stay in the BPK hotel rooms, but now, that is often all that may be available.
1. That is revisionist history. At the time, Villa people were apoplectic about the features of VGF2 that made it more resort-like and less villa-like.

2. Adding 100% studio inventory is a net benefit to demand dynamics, always. It's impossible for it to be anything else. Some percentage of VGF2 buyers are going to stay in 1- and 2-bedroom villas, even if it's a small percentage. That means VGF added more studio inventory than it added in studio demand, resulting in net-less studio competition.
 
1. That is revisionist history. At the time, Villa people were apoplectic about the features of VGF2 that made it more resort-like and less villa-like.

2. Adding 100% studio inventory is a net benefit to demand dynamics, always. It's impossible for it to be anything else. Some percentage of VGF2 buyers are going to stay in 1- and 2-bedroom villas, even if it's a small percentage. That means VGF added more studio inventory than it added in studio demand, resulting in net-less studio competition.
I do see his point though. Yes there are more studios, which is a positive. But if you prefer the VGF1 studios b/c that's what you bought into, now they are even harder to get b/c so many more points were added and have access to them at 11 mos. If I bought into VGF1 and didn't like BPK at all, I'd see it as a negative.
 
Probably in the minority - but we (husband and I) bought specifically because we wanted 1 bedroom units including 2 TVs, kitchen and laundry. We would not have bought if we could only book a glorified hotel room to stay in. Even now, as a solo traveler, it’s got to be a 1Br for me. I stayed in a studio for the first time in Dec for a few days as part of a split stay. I couldn’t wait to get into my 1Br. I missed having laundry and full size fridge for leftovers.
 
I do see his point though. Yes there are more studios, which is a positive. But if you prefer the VGF1 studios b/c that's what you bought into, now they are even harder to get b/c so many more points were added and have access to them at 11 mos. If I bought into VGF1 and didn't like BPK at all, I'd see it as a negative.

Yes I have been surprised how much sooner the original studios book than BPK. I’m a Phase 2 owner. Have not tried the original rooms yet. Booked BPK 5 times so far which I don’t mind because we love those rooms, but I would’ve mixed it up if we found full availability at the original.
 
Probably in the minority - but we (husband and I) bought specifically because we wanted 1 bedroom units including 2 TVs, kitchen and laundry. We would not have bought if we could only book a glorified hotel room to stay in. Even now, as a solo traveler, it’s got to be a 1Br for me. I stayed in a studio for the first time in Dec for a few days as part of a split stay. I couldn’t wait to get into my 1Br. I missed having laundry and full size fridge for leftovers.
Count me in as part of the minority, too. We also specifically bought for the 1 bedrooms. I realize that it makes the math fuzzier, but I valued the psychological factor - knowing that we were locked into staying on site in large accommodations that make our trips inherently better. We aren't go go go parks people all day. We did a couple nights at a studio as part of our most recent trip, and even though it was only for a night before/after our cruises, I really disliked the lack of space (and we are only a family of 3).

If DVC had been studios only, I don't think we would have purchased at all. I'd just stay at Pop Century or book offsite at somewhere like Windsor Hills for a similar cost. (Don't come at me, studio lovers. Just my opinion)
 
1. That is revisionist history. At the time, Villa people were apoplectic about the features of VGF2 that made it more resort-like and less villa-like.
This is not "revisionist history" at all. In fact, you can feel free to go back and look at my posts from the time they were adding BPK to the existing association. My concern has always been access to the Deluxe Studios in the original building. I have been quite consistent on this.

2. Adding 100% studio inventory is a net benefit to demand dynamics, always. It's impossible for it to be anything else. Some percentage of VGF2 buyers are going to stay in 1- and 2-bedroom villas, even if it's a small percentage. That means VGF added more studio inventory than it added in studio demand, resulting in net-less studio competition.
Except that BPK aren't really studios. They are hotel rooms. That's it. They do not have the kitchenette or two shower setup of the original Deluxe Studios.

BTW, not saying that's not a positive for some people, I'm sure many love having the hotel rooms in BPK. I'm just stating how I have always felt as a VGF1 owner about how they brought BPK into the association. It would have been better off being it's own association, but "that train has sailed" now...
 
And it's part of the reason I knew the old timers were wrong when they got all upset about the "Resort Studio" rooms at Grand Floridian.

Most (not all, but most) DVC buyers don't care about "villa" style accommodations. They just want hotel rooms that they can book with points. Microwaves and laundry and sofas that face the TV and kitchenettes (much less full kitchens) are not needle-movers.

If DVC launched a resort that let you book guaranteed connecting Studios, those would instantly become the most popular units in the whole system.

I don’t know if we got it wrong because they didn’t repeat that set up with PVB tower and actually added a dishwasher to the studio.

But, some of the issues that people had were fixed by DVC….they added the microwave and changed out some of the beverage coolers to mini fridges.

So, in that regard, it softened the issue of being so different.

It’s definitely made getting the deluxe studios harder but it is easier to get in to the resort at 7 months now there are so many resort studios.

I personally don’t like it because of the couch set up but at least the initsl items that people took issue with have been fixed.
 
The thing that I can't figure out is VGF2 and Poly Tower.

They obviously like resale restrictions so why wouldn't they have done Poly using the Copper Creek / Boulder Ridge model rather than the Jambo / Kidani model so they could attach restrictions to the new Tower association?
40 years vs. 50 years is very different than 25 years vs. 50 years...

and they get VGF and Poly back 10 years sooner to repackage and resell...
 
And it's part of the reason I knew the old timers were wrong when they got all upset about the "Resort Studio" rooms at Grand Floridian.

Most (not all, but most) DVC buyers don't care about "villa" style accommodations. They just want hotel rooms that they can book with points. Microwaves and laundry and sofas that face the TV and kitchenettes (much less full kitchens) are not needle-movers.

If DVC launched a resort that let you book guaranteed connecting Studios, those would instantly become the most popular units in the whole system.
They were for us. We would have never bought DVC as a way to "prepay for hotel rooms". We along with @Brian Noble must be the exception...
 



















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