New Posiden's Fury is much better

johare

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 30, 1999
I never called you ignorant.
Maybe not in those exact words, but you have said "I'm wrong, I don't know what I'm talking about, I have a very limited understanding, etc...".

Do you like Terminator 2/3-D? The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman? Star Trek The Experience? Jurassic Park The Ride?
T23D yes
Spiderman YES!
Star Trek never heard of it
Jurassic Park Ride ok could be better.

But I know if it doesn't make ME lough, or get excited, or cry, or whatever - then it won't affect the audience either.
So you believe the audience shares your sense of humor, excitement, etc... and you say you're not conceited?

btw: I never said you needed a degree to create something, I said that you pretty much expect someone to have a degree to appreciate your work. And I HAVE spoken with people regarding the new attraction and my impression is that it's about 50/50. Half seem to like the new the other half like the old and if that's the case, why bother. I also have been stopped by the people with the clipboards at the exit who take you to that little room off guest services and I've given them my opinion there also.
 

Tony M

Remember 1999
Joined
Sep 19, 1999
Thank you Mr.Goddard, Chairman of Landmark, for visiting our site.
For those of you out there who don't know who he is, Mr.Goddard is the Chairman of Landmark, the company responsible for great attractions like Universal's T-2,3-D, Las Vegas' Star Trek Experience and now seemingly the rehab of Poseidon's Fury. It is very hard for all of us to distinguish people who are who they say they are on this site from those who anonymously say that they work for Universal, Disney, or in this case Landmark. It's annoying that the internet is such an anonymous community where we have to trust that people are who they say they are and not some idiot who researches the internet and hides behind a name of someone else that they found on a website's Company info page to try to lend to that person's credibility. The fact that you have included your ACTUAL name to all of your posts adds all of the credibility and verification that one would need to validate all of your comments. Thank You for not hiding behind some screen name.
It is nice to know that the Chairman of Landmark, such a large entertainment company would take the time to respond to our comments about an attraction that you were so involved with. As Chairman of Landmark, it is obvious that someone with your experience and knowledge of ride and attraction development should be the ultimate resource for all of us fans curious about your projects. Criticism or praise, we just like to share our opinions and ideas. We are merely amateurs, inexperienced in what a theme park guest wants or would like to see, but we enjoy the banter none the less.
I had hoped to reach you through your company's website today to discuss this attraction and other attractions that you have been involved with on a little less formal manner than this public forum, but unfortunately none of my attempts were successful. Please excuse the numerous attempts to reach you through your company's office and website. I had thought that since you were able to take so much time responding on this site that you were available for one to one dialogue. I am a big admirer of theme park projects and was interested in Landmark's involvement. I know that you would not divulge that info over a public forum, but maybe you would in private email format. As Chairman of Landmark, it is good to know how involved that you still are in the actual creative aspects of your company's projects and you seem to be a true resource to this site and the fans of this site.
Thanks again for taking time out of your busy day as Chairman of Landmark today to respond to all of our posts.
Since you are the Chairman of Landmark your info comes straight from the most reliable source possible regarding "Poseidon's Fury" and your many responses to our posts has made all of us take notice of your company's value of customer relationship and how much you appreciate our perspective. Please visit this site as often as you can.
Thanks.
HAVE FUN
 

MIB999999

<font color=purple>MIB Fantastic Four sensei<br><f
Joined
Jul 5, 2001
Gary Goddard glad to have you in this discussion since this new show is your baby.
I like the old show for the following reasons:
1: the old show transported me back to the pre-vortex room. IMHO you are assuming the applause for the new show at the end is good. The old show left you in such a state of wonderment and question as to how you got back to this room. You know something happened but you are not sure what it was and you are trying to figure it out. This condition is not conducive to spontaneous applause. The applause for the new show is because they know the show is over.

2: the vortex: in the old show the vortex was a point of reference as well as being cool to see and walk through. In the new show the vortex has no relationship to the ending. we just as well put the vortex outside between Fury and Mythos so everyone can see and enjoy it.

3: Keeper was low keyed and talked with you, relaying a story. Taylor talks, (screams) at you and thus there is no bond of trust.

4: Keeper led us thru the vortex by the calm of his person. I seriously doubt anyone would follow taylor based on trust, especially after the chicken with its head cut-off routine just displayed.

5: The keeper character was based on subtle trust. With Taylor you are just stuck in the wrong place with the wrong person.

IDEAS FOR IMPROVEMENT: rewrite the story so the vortex is once again a point of reference and i am transported back to the pre-vortex room. ;)
kevin
 

Gary Goddard

Earning My Ears
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Thanks for your thoughtful response.

Again, please understand I was hired to TRANSFORM the current show. THere were TWO ATTEMPTS prior to my involvement to "fix" the old show you refer to. My experience shows that band-aid fixes are not sufficient on attractions of such a large scale, you have to somehow think OUT OF THE BOX and really turn things on its head.

My goal -- lets return to that - what I was asked to do, was to create a more entertaining experience. I was asked to make the story understandable and to make it more entertaining for families. The old show, as much as some of you love it, was not fixable in this way. I honestly find it hard to believe that any of you were engaged by the KEEPER character - a caricature of an old man who later is revealed to be an omnipotent God. Nothing happend in Act I and nothing happend in Act II. It was all a big delay until you got to the Vortex. And that is not a "show" --
be that as it may --- lets go to your points -- -

1. In actuality - the stunned silence was because people were confused. Most people did not get that they were "back where they started" though they did get they were in another room. But the silence there continued in the halls during the exit - there was no laughter - no excitement. When people leave shows that they love, they talk and chat -- its part of the shared experience. So, yes there was something to be said for the stunned reaction - but honestly - Universal wanted (and I agree in this case) people to be excited and pumped up at the end of the show. That was the goal - I think it worked.

2. I am not sure how you can say in the New Show the Vortex has nothing to do with the ending. The entire set up is all about "the ancient connection to the ocean..." - something thought to be legend - but which proves to be true. The build up to the transition tunnel - which will take them "deeper into the Temple" is a big part of the show. The tunnel them leads them to the Chamber of Poseidon -- and yes, in another world with another budget, I would have designed the room differently - BUT in this case we could not change anything there -- but since the prior room had changed, I thought it was okay. Anyway - in terms of story - the transition plays well, and the VORTEX is an important part of leading you to the hidden chamber. I think thats pretty clear in terms of the text of the show.

3. Well, I have to tell you that the KEEPER bored me senseless. On and on with nothing but expository information -- the actors tried to rise above the material - but you know - it was dry, it was boring - and this entire myth that it was somehow "the art of storytelling" is just off base. TAYLOR - and I don't know which Taylor you saw - but I know that it DOES depend upon which performer you see -- but the TAYLOR character does engage the audience. And the script now has moments that REVEAL things, and where there is an emotional reaction to what is going on.

4. The nature of entertainment is to create an approach that makes a character interesting and engaging. The Vortex is a great effect, and a wonderful one -- and I think audiences actually like following Taylor through there -- and the music and drama that lead to the reveal actually gets people more emotionally involved than previously -- its a big moment. I cannot agree that the Keeper's passive, non-involved performance was better -- its just a difference of opinion.

5. The Keeper and his "subtle trust" I don't get. Taylor is based - admitedly - on classic comedy/adventure movies. I think everything from the Bob Hope/Bing Crosby ROAD movies, to more recent movies like Ghostbusters, MEN IN BLACK, Austin Powers - there are tons. You take a character that is comical yet who wants to be more than he is - and you put him into dangerous or threatening situations and let him work his way through them. It results in comedy - and an endearing character. Sorry if the guy or girl you saw that say was so over the top that it wasnt holding togehter - thats NOT the direction for the Taylor performance.

See a few more shows with a different Taylor and see if you feel differently.

Okay - thats my two cents on your most recent notes.

Best,

Gary
 

Gary Goddard

Earning My Ears
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Tony,

Thanks for the introduction to the message boards. I actually enjoy seeing what theme park fans think - and while I am used to most fans really liking what I do -- its okay when sometimes they don't. BUt in the case of Poseidon's Fury -- I feel that Universal was more than justified in wanting to change and improve the show. And, as importantly, as the creator of that show, I am most proud of the show and therefore, have been happy to talk to those who, for whatever reason, don't like the new one.

I am happy to talk to you about anything else you want to dicscuss - though I did not get any Email or telephone messages from you today. Please feel free to eMail me at this address - or to call me at Landmark.

Best regards,


Gary
 

Gary Goddard

Earning My Ears
Joined
Sep 10, 2001
Hey Johare -

Nice try - but it aint' me. Some OTHER Gary Goddard. Look for me at Landmarkusa.com

But it was funny, I'll give you that.


Gary
 
  • Melanie1001

    USF Rocks!
    Joined
    Nov 29, 2000
    If I'm reading right, the final 'magical' transport effect is no longer existant...Why did they do away with the final effect of going back to the original room? I can understand changing the 'Keeper' character, it really didn't make much sense anyway, but that final effect rocked! I'm glad I got to see it once anyway..
     

    MIB999999

    <font color=purple>MIB Fantastic Four sensei<br><f
    Joined
    Jul 5, 2001
    Mr. Goddard,
    now that you set my brain juices gurguling. i have seen the new show 4 times. The frist with a male taylor. in the first the final room had no sound so that was interesting.

    second show was a female taylor and that was much better. a bit more believeable.

    show three and four were male and four was really over the top.
    my wife wanted to take the boy aside and calm him down or check on his medication dosage.

    So it is not that i dislike the new show, i just like the old one better.
    I do agree that the correct approach by taylor will make a large difference in the preception by the audience.

    so how bout it, transportation back to the pre-vortex room is a possibility for a future variation:D
     

    johare

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 30, 1999
    Maybe the next poll should be...

    How many people here believe that the Gary Goddard posting here is THE Gary Goddard, Chairman and founder of Landmark Entertainment group. Most executives I know are FAR to busy to spend an entire day posting to a web based discussion group. Seems like only a couple people have caught on so far that this guy is a fake. Nobody with an attitude like his would have gone far in the business.
     

    MIB999999

    <font color=purple>MIB Fantastic Four sensei<br><f
    Joined
    Jul 5, 2001
    Originally posted by johare
    Maybe the next poll should be...

    How many people here believe that the Gary Goddard posting here is THE Gary Goddard, Chairman and founder of Landmark Entertainment group. Most executives I know are FAR to busy to spend an entire day posting to a web based discussion group. Seems like only a couple people have caught on so far that this guy is a fake. Nobody with an attitude like his would have gone far in the business.
    I don't know johare. they thought International Harvester was a forever institutiuon right up to the day Case bought it up. Just cause they are high up does not mean they still have a grasp on day to day reality that local politics finds usefull.;)
    onething is for sure the FURY has been discussed!!!!!!
     
  • CoileyTheSpringSprite

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 17, 2000
    Well, I'm certainly not Gary, but I'll lend my perspective on a couple issues from the view of a theme park fan...

    >>>1: the old show transported me back to the pre-vortex room.<<<<

    I'm trying to figure out why that's better than what currently occurs. The temple is made up of a series of interconnected chambers. When you finally reach the secret chamber "hidden from [Darkennon's] eyes" by way of the vortex- you are at a point where Poseidon can help you directly. So he zaps you from the current room you're in, and into his Chamber. When the threat has been taken care of, he grants safe passage back to the temple and zaps you out of there.
    Either way, the teleportation effect is still there.

    >>>>>IMHO you are assuming the applause for the new show at the end is good.<<<<<<

    Ah, so people are appluading because they hate it and are glad that it's over.

    >>>>The old show left you in such a state of wonderment and question as to how you got back to this room. You know something happened but you are not sure what it was and you are trying to figure it out.<<<<<

    Seemed pretty simple to me. Back in the old room again- that's where you're supposed to cue the applause. It's the exact same effect that occurs now. Maybe its best to ask yourself why it was confusing before, and why people understand now and applaud?

    >>This condition is not conducive to spontaneous applause. <<

    Again, the same effect ends the current show and there IS applause.

    >>The applause for the new show is because they know the show is over. <<

    Again, the same effect ended the old show- why would people not know it is the end?

    Regardless- SAME effect in both shows. One elicits a positive response, the other a "huh?"

    >>the vortex: in the old show the vortex was a point of reference as well as being cool to see and walk through. <<

    Yes, it did make sense in the old show.

    >>>In the new show the vortex has no relationship to the ending. we just as well put the vortex outside between Fury and Mythos so everyone can see and enjoy it. <<<<

    This was explained fairly nicely at the beginning by Taylor. Legend has it that the temple contains a secret connection to the oceans. The Goddess brings it up again later... "Shhh! Listen!" and you hear the rush of water. It adds another layer of legend and personality to the temple. It coud also be inferred that perhaps the fact that Poseidon's spirit is on the other side of the vortex is the reason why Darkennon doesn't know where he is?

    >>3: Keeper was low keyed and talked with you, relaying a story.<<<

    And he talked, and talked.... there was no immersion. Nothing happened during this story. And why exactly were we in the temple to begin with? And what's with the scary old man crawling out of the wall and talking to us for anyway?

    >> Taylor talks, (screams) at you and thus there is no bond of trust. <<

    Taylor never screams AT you. He screams because he's scared, and if you were in the same situation, you would be, too. He's a character we can RELATE with because if I was being tormented by a long dead murderous high priest in an abandoned haunted temple, I'd be screaming as well.

    >>Keeper led us thru the vortex by the calm of his person.<<

    So, if the Keeper was Zeus, why was he leading us into this trap? Zeus couldn't leave well enough alone with Poseidon at the bottom of the sea? He just HAD to go down there in human form and wake a whole bunch of potential victims with him as well?

    >>With Taylor you are just stuck in the wrong place with the wrong person.
    <<

    You do't have a CHOICE with Taylor. Darkennon has already made it clear at this point that there's only one path for you to take, and its with him. Taylor WANTS to get out of there and evacuate, but Darkennon doesn't allow it.
    There was no ultimatum given in the old show. You followed the Keeper by your own will... and you seem to be concerned with the realism of the situation with your comment of "I seriously doubt anyone would follow taylor based on trust." In real life, who in their right mind would follow a weird old man that just popped out of a hole in the wall? Once again, in the new show, you HAVE to go.

    >>The keeper character was based on subtle trust. With Taylor you are just stuck in the wrong place with the wrong person. <<

    Subtle trust? You make him sound like he's a father figure or something. The Keeper made no logical sense story-wise. Who the heck is he? WHY are we listening to him? There's no reason for any of it. The truth is, anyone in Taylor's situation would not be able to retain complete composure to the course of events presented.

    >>>>IDEAS FOR IMPROVEMENT: rewrite the story so the vortex is once again a point of reference and i am transported back to the pre-vortex room.<<<

    It already is a point of reference. Specifically stated by Taylor and referenced later by the Goddess, and implied as the reason why Darkennon cannot see Poseidon.

    Going back to the pre-vortex room would be impossible. Notice now that the Chamber of Death is very three-dimensional. There are props- skeletons, gold, actual THINGS adorning the walls. There was a reason why the show of old had an extremely plain looking room- and it had to do with just storing four solid walls and the connecting beams in the ceiling above you in the final chamber.

    And again, within the context of the story, it makes no sense to go back to the Chamber of Death. "The Dark One has sealed the doors to this chamber with a locking spell impervious to magic. The way home is now impossible."


    ----- moving on to another poster...


    >>>>Ah, now I see my mistake. This explains everything!

    CLICK HERE!<<<<

    Ahh, very intelligent.


    >>>>But I know if it doesn't make ME lough, or get excited, or cry, or whatever - then it won't affect the audience either.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So you believe the audience shares your sense of humor, excitement, etc... and you say you're not conceited? <<<<<


    Once again, I'm most definately NOT trying to speak for Gary here, but there are fundamental elements that should be in every attraction and the old show was missing several of them. As a general rule, an attraction needs to be entertaining- and the truth is, most of the people were not entertained at all in either of the first two rooms of the old show. They were missing things that should be at the core of every theme park attraction.
    I'm just a fan but I know that for an attraction to succeed, you need: humor, drama, action, heart, etc. The old show was lacking any sort of humor. The new one gets laughs consistently- but depends on the actor. The old show lacked drama up until the final chamber- and even then, you're just watching a battle between two petty gods. You're not really in the equation. It's between Zeus and Poseidon. In the new show, your lives are VERY much at stake- and Darkennon makes sure you know that right from the start. The heart in this show is that we have a guide that we can IDENTIFY with. He is us in that situation. This new show gets people excited... People yell and cheer consistently in the Chamber of Death when Taylor asks everyone if we're really brave enough to venture on. At this point, peoplehave been hooked into the story. The old show was extraordinarily slow in this room. There was not a single exciting thing that happened until the cartouche door opened and revealed the vortex.


    >>>>>And I HAVE spoken with people regarding the new attraction and my impression is that it's about 50/50. Half seem to like the new the other half like the old and if that's the case, why bother.<<<<

    It's not realistic at all to talk to only people who have seen the old show, which is what you're saying here. If a greater percentage of people who've never experienced the old show have a more positive reaction to the new one then did people who only saw the old show, then your point is moot.

    >>>>>I still feel that the original was slightly better and they could have made some small adjustments and wound up with a better show than they have now and saved a ton of money in the process.<<<<<

    If you've followed the history of the attraction at all, Universal tried this. TWICE. It would seem that they finally decided to just go all out and redo the entire storyline.
     

    CoileyTheSpringSprite

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 17, 2000
    Hehe- It took me about an hour to put together my last post. In that time, Gary made a few more responses while I was typing mine out. Mine looks really repetitive now since it seems we're thinking pretty much the same way. :)
     

    Gary Goddard

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2001
    Give me a break.

    I am the real GG -- and I am NOT a radio DJ. And the reason I have time to do this is that I MADE time -- its my company and I choose where to put my focus. Today, I decided to try and actually converse with fans that either like or don't like the show -- although I must admit I had no idea it would take on such a lengthy commitment. But as you might guess - I see things through from start to finish.

    I'm Gary Goddard. The one that created SOME of your favorite attractions - and the one that apparantly has ruined -- at least in your opinion -- your favorite one about a certain God of the Oceans.

    The one and same.
     

    johare

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 30, 1999
    I'm Gary Goddard. The one that created SOME of your favorite attractions - and the one that apparantly has ruined -- at least in your opinion -- your favorite one about a certain God of the Oceans
    Sure you are. Perhaps you are THIS PERSON then?

    btw: Poseidon's Fury is not my favorite attraction now and it wasn't before either. On the good old 1-10 scale I give the old one a 7 and the new one a 6. I don't think the new version is ruined either. I just happen to like the old one just a little bit more. Sorry of that offends you so much
     

    Gary Goddard

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2001
    Pretty funny.

    You do your homework prince alwaleed.

    But I am not the same person as Coliley the SPrite - but whoever that person is - I must say that he or she has a very good grasp on the essential ideas behind show design.

    Gary
     

    CoileyTheSpringSprite

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 17, 2000
    Let me tell you a little about myself: I'm a Disney premium annual passholder, a Universal two-park Annual holder, and am currently a seasonal Universal employee for HHN. I'm currently a freshman at UCF.

    I'm just a theme park fan- nothing more, nothing less. And I certainly don't make a habit of impersonating others.

    I have, however, met Mr. Goddard before as we have a mutual friend. I can also tell you that by way of that mutual friend, I have been told that it is most definately Gary Goddard who has been posting on this board.
    Of course, there's no reason for anyone to believe me, but- hey, whatever.

    Come on, people- just because designers rarely speak out on public forums, does not preclude the possibility of it happening. Just as people in the know from Universal post here regularly- no one questions the validity of Earl on this board. Remember that Mr. Goddard is about as high up as they come in a company and therefore has no need to hide his real identity as others do on this board.

    Just because I enjoy the attraction, think its an improvement over the old one, and understand the basics of story and theming does not make us the same person.
     

    CoileyTheSpringSprite

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 17, 2000
    Sharing an IP address, huh? Only moderators can access that info- and if they would take a moment to check it out, you would see that they're absolutely not the same. Now you're resorting to lying.

    Gary didn't know who I was until I e-mailed him not too long ago. I met him once, in passing, and we do have a mutual friend. Besides, my regular screen name is Kungaloosh1937. This is the only board on the net that I go by CoileyTheSpringSprite.

    I find it interesting that you registered your screen name *today*. If I had to guess, you're probably a regular poster who doesn't want everyone to know they're lying and making things up about others (See issue about IP address above for proof of lying).
    I've been on this forum for about a year now- and while my posts have been sporadic, they've at least been interesting and informative- which is more than what anyone could say about the three you've made so far.
     

    CoileyTheSpringSprite

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 17, 2000
    Nice try, Prince Al Waleed- removing the post in which you claimed Gary and I's IP addresses were the same- when 1. they're not, and 2. you don't have access to that info.

    Where are the moderators for this board, anyways? Shouldn't new screen names like this, who come on merely to lie and start conflicts be banned? I'm sure the moderator can see posts deleted by users- and I KNOW they can check IP addresses.

    You know, I've been on here over a year- haven't posted much, but what I have has been useful and relevant. I finally jump into a thread which is interesting because I'm a big fan of the show- and all this happens. I'm gonna go back to the freaking newsgroups if this is how everyone is treated.
     

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