New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[BeccaG]

never was it stated anywhere in the official rules and regulations that you could book a series of one day reservations but not be required to check out and check back in and be allowed stay in the same room for the whole time. Yes it's a timeshare based on daily rather than weekly reservations, but the rules and regulations required that the reservation be made from your check out date--that means you have to check out that day. Call it a situation, call it a lack of communication (which I totally agree with) but it wasn't a policy, because it wasn't written down anywhere that it was allowed.

There are lots of things in life where things are not written that you can do something, at WDW and everywhere. For example

1. On the Mark Twain at DL, and I am assuming on the Liberty Bell at WDW you can ask to ride with the captain and get a certificate.

2. You can get pins for your birthday at city hall.

3. I have a right to privacy protected by the Constitution and that word is not in the Constitution.

4. I use to be able to call and book several subsequent days for a vacation at this timeshare I own and link those days together so I did not have to change rooms.

Actually now I say the last one, DBD booking is really no different than linking ressies of two different room types so you don't have to move if you change accommodation sizes during your vacation (which also is not written anywhere). My point is I could go on and on about things that aren't published but that you can do and aren't a violation of any rule nor "unfair" because folks don't figure it out. Heck, just look through the pages of these boards and you will see post after post of folks who simply don't take the time to consider all the options or read all the rules of how to use their DVC from what they do publish. My guess is that the membership at large, meaning all those folks who aren't disney fanatics, aren't on message boards, don't stress and worry about getting a specific vacation date and location 11 months out because they don't even think of planning 11 months out; would not have booked DBD even if they did know about it.

 

[BeccaG]

Lisa,
When MS tells you they can't reserve Sunday-Friday but do have Monday-Friday, why wouldn't one just tell MS that they wanted Monday-Friday and later come back and WL the Sunday. I realize they are hanging out and may have to switch from SS to BW for the one day but at least they would have 4 of the 5 days set up.

monty

I believe its because for the poster of the original scenario, Sunday was at the 7 month mark, so you could not book a Monday-Friday stay until the next day.

 

[jarestel]

But this brings up an issue that Dean mentioned ... it becomes a grey area. How many adds/drops constitute walking and how many are needed? What if I was going to go one week, but then my employer changes my vacation period? Or a family member can't get that week off but can get the next week off? It's very possible someone would have the need to drop as many as 4,5, or 7 days from the front end and extend it on the back end.

If you leave it up to DVC to decide what is 'abuse' and what is not, then that creates a whole separate definition of fairness. We're going to leave it up to each individual CM to decide what is and isn't? Clearly, they haven't been able to do this to stop spec renters, so I don't see how they would be able to do this to stop walkers. Isn't spec renting easier to identify when someone has a dozen reservations, all during peak periods, under different unrelated names? Though I guess maybe I have a family reunion, every year, and I'm making reservations for everyone under my account. And if this latest policy decision was to improve their bottom line, are they really going to go after someone with the amount of points needed to do this? I'm sure they pay a pretty penny in MF -- I know I do. It's been said DVC loses Millions of Dollars to spec renters. They can't stop it, or they don't want to ... not sure. If the end result of walking is that the rooms are booked anyways, why does DVC care if they don't seem to be able to prevent the loss of millions to spec renters?

The solution will likely be that you can't walk more than 20 separate reservations a year, just like booking more than 20 separate reservations during the same period/season raises a red flag.

In either case, 20 is more than enough for me. And if it raises a red flag, so what? Nothing in the POS as it is written prevents me from doing so. Not even in the most recent version for AKV. That could change for BLT, but for now, nope.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to spot a definite pattern of walking, IMO. Nobody's employer is going to change requested vacation time by one day every day for a week. As I said a tweak or two is nothing to get excited about, but 7 calls within a 7 day period to drop day 1 and add another day is obviously walking - easily identifiable and simple to stop. Do they want to stop it? I don't know, but as I said before, if walking is viewed as a way to negate the reasons for the change in the first place, I suspect it will happen.

 

[Chuck S]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to spot a definite pattern of walking, IMO. Nobody's employer is going to change requested vacation time by one day every day for a week. As I said a tweak or two is nothing to get excited about, but 7 calls within a 7 day period to drop day 1 and add another day is obviously walking - easily identifiable and simple to stop. Do they want to stop it? I don't know, but as I said before, if walking is viewed as a way to negate the reasons for the change in the first place, I suspect it will happen.

In theory, you wouldn't need to call daily to walk, only about once per week, as the room you have booked can not be booked by anyone else unless they call 11 months from your vacate date. So if you are walking, you'd only need to call evey 6 days to drop/book 7 days forward. This whole booking policy is quite curious.

 

[jarestel]

In theory, you wouldn't need to call daily to walk, only about once per week, as the room you have booked can not be booked by anyone else unless they call 11 months from your vacate date. So if you are walking, you'd only need to call evey 6 days to drop/book 7 days forward. This whole booking policy is quite curious.

Curious indeed.
But again, as long as the original booking day is known (not lost in the computer when it gets dropped off), it's still easy enough to spot a reservation moving forward either one day at a time or one week at a time over a certain period. It will be an interesting few months around here, I suspect!

 

[jdg345]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to spot a definite pattern of walking, IMO. Nobody's employer is going to change requested vacation time by one day every day for a week. As I said a tweak or two is nothing to get excited about, but 7 calls within a 7 day period to drop day 1 and add another day is obviously walking - easily identifiable and simple to stop. Do they want to stop it? I don't know, but as I said before, if walking is viewed as a way to negate the reasons for the change in the first place, I suspect it will happen.

You could walk every 4th day though, it doesn't even need to be DBD (Theoretically, anyways). My point though was that it should be easy to spot a spec renter, and they haven't stopped that yet (to the tune of Millions of Dollars in lost revenue) ...

I just don't see walking high on their list if they can't figure out how to stop spec renting -- which, ironically, this policy helps imo.

 

[jdg345]

In theory, you wouldn't need to call daily to walk, only about once per week, as the room you have booked can not be booked by anyone else unless they call 11 months from your vacate date. So if you are walking, you'd only need to call evey 6 days to drop/book 7 days forward. This whole booking policy is quite curious.

If by 'curious', you mean 'sucky' ... then yes, I agree.

 

[LisaS]

I really don't understand why they could book the Mon-Friday but not the Sunday?

It's actually the reverse: they cannot book Mon-Fri if Sunday is not available the first day they call. When they call back the second day (7/11 months prior to the Monday night) if Mon-Fri is still available they can book them on that call. But if the Monday night is now sold out then they cannot book the Tues-Fri even if they are available. They would have to call back the next day and try again.

 

[Chuck S]

If it takes them as long to stop reservation walking as to install glassware washers for SSR and OKW studios...

 

[jdg345]

If it takes them as long to stop reservation walking as to install glassware washers for SSR and OKW studios...

Well, they did that 'fairly' quickly ...

 

[jarestel]

My point though was that it should be easy to spot a spec renter, and they haven't stopped that yet (to the tune of Millions of Dollars in lost revenue) ...

That's another question and probably way more difficult to detect and stop than walking ever would be. I'm not advocating for or against, but the simplest policy would be if all of your days eventually end up outside of that original checkin+7 window, then that's a cancellation/rebooking situation since you have willingly "given up" all seven of your original days.

 

[Kathi OD]

you never really answered the question though did you

if thats the time i bought our points for thats the only time i'm interested in, but you seem to be telling me how we should have booked our previous vacations contradicting to what DVC MS advised us to do, i'm sorry but I put my faith in getting my vacation more in DVC MS than i ever would listening to you telling me if or when its not needed to book DBD.

Hate to say this, but anyone who purchased DVC thinking they were always going to get peak times was foolish as there was never a guarantee that you would be able to do that.

As for answering the question about how I booked my Easter/Spring Break trip , I thought I did, but just in case.....I called based on my checkout date and booked all 7 days of the trip at one time.

And again, no one at MS EVER in 8 years has ever suggested that I should call DBD. So in effect, some members have knowledge about a practice when others don't. Please explain how that is fair?

 

[aurorafan]

I was using that just as an example. What of my examples for Airline Upgrades? Or Free Hotel Room upgrades? What about car rental breaks? There are plenty of 'Tips and Tricks for X' books available for purchase. These are written by individuals who have figured out little ways to get the most out of the system. These are not policy books written by Airline and Hotel companies.

Does that mean these tips and tricks are unfair? Certainly not. It just means we aren't well educated on the subject.

Again, not knowing about it does not make it unfair.

Being told that you cannot and I can just because they feel like it, That is unfair.

I realize at this point that I have allowed myself to be sidetracked . My original post was to pilferk who said (emphasis on "if" mine)

I admit, if it was not communicated to all members...that's a problem. It seems to be a common one...the lack of communication.

I pointed out that it wasn't a question of "if"--it had not been communicated to all members. In another post he referred to DBD as a policy:

The policy, and the system itself, was completely fair.

I pointed out that DBD was not a policy. A policy is written down or communicated in some other way(s) to the entire membership as being an officially sanctioned way of doing something. Fine, call DBD a tip or trick of the trade, but don't call it a policy because it wasn't.

And yes, I still think it was unfair--it meant someone was locked out of a room they wanted because DVC never told them they had this option, so someone who knew about it was able to get it. I can see the arguments being made for the new system being unfair as well.

 

[jade1]

I pointed out that DBD was not a policy. A policy is written down or communicated in some other way(s) to the entire membership as being an officially sanctioned way of doing something. .

I agree, it never was a policy, and never needed to be published or communicated. It was called booking one day ressies (as per the points charts mailed to every member)-DVC/MS were the ones that recommended tying the ressies together-not the members (of course it was a logical step).

 

[SuzanneSLO]

That's another question and probably way more difficult to detect and stop than walking ever would be. I'm not advocating for or against, but the simplest policy would be if all of your days eventually end up outside of that original checkin+7 window, then that's a cancellation/rebooking situation since you have willingly "given up" all seven of your original days.

All that would stop is walking for more than one week. It would not prevent the kind of walking I expect to see most often, which would involve starting your reservation 7 days in advance of your desired check-in date. So even after you have finished your walk, you are still staying on Day 7 of your original reservation.

Those with enough points and enough free time can get around any cancellation policy because they can call day by day and book a multi-day reservation each time. If successful, they cancel all the days of the old reservation. If not, they add nights to the old one until that reservation extends out to include the dates actually desired. They then wait until any waiting period for cancellations expires and cancel all but the 5 nights they really want.

-- Suzanne

 

[waltfan1957]

Hate to say this, but anyone who purchased DVC thinking they were always going to get peak times was foolish as there was never a guarantee that you would be able to do that.

As for answering the question about how I booked my Easter/Spring Break trip , I thought I did, but just in case.....I called based on my checkout date and booked all 7 days of the trip at one time.

And again, no one at MS EVER in 8 years has ever suggested that I should call DBD. So in effect, some members have knowledge about a practice when others don't. Please explain how that is fair?

obviously never read the post properly that was'nt my question.

 

[simzac]

Yes, I have-and it was "provable" the AM I reported it. Back quit a few pages now but feel free to look it up.

DVCBELLE grabbed BWV FEB 7 (Sat) for 7 nights and reported with great success. This was right at 7 months out. I called the next AM for arrival FEB 8 (SUN) and could not aquire Tues Feb 10-it had been booked by earlier callers.

Sorry, but reservations at 7 months were never guaranteed even under the old system. My question should read has anyone been denied a reservation at the 11 month mark? Any reservation made after the 11th month day always will have a chance that it wouldn't be available, regardless of which system you chose to use.

 

[waltfan1957]

I've been keeping out of this thread, although I am reading it with some interest. However, if I am understanding you correctly, I have to disagree with you here.

I think the problem did exist in the other booking paradigm as well. People would book day by day for prime holiday slots, thus keeping it away from other members. Then, they would end up putting those bookings on different rental threads attempting to rent them to interested people who were not in DVC. That was certainly not fair either.


yes but now with one call and enough points they can book as many rooms as they have points for (much fairer hey)

 

[jdg345]

That's another question and probably way more difficult to detect and stop than walking ever would be. I'm not advocating for or against, but the simplest policy would be if all of your days eventually end up outside of that original checkin+7 window, then that's a cancellation/rebooking situation since you have willingly "given up" all seven of your original days.

But if those 7 days are all within my 11 month window, then what? What if I walk the full week taking the reservation to 14 days and then just drop the first 7 once they're all within my window. Then it's just a DBD extension as far as the system is concerned with one drop/change off the front.

Oh, the office took away a week of vacation. Oh, they gave it back, but I need to take it later. Etc, etc. Where does Disney decide on the Grey Area? Time will tell, but I really don't think they have any real intention of monitoring 'abuse' as long as someone is in the rooms.

 

[jdg345]

Hate to say this, but anyone who purchased DVC thinking they were always going to get peak times was foolish as there was never a guarantee that you would be able to do that.

But anecdotally, you're saying just that. Easter is a peak time and you've always gotten it, no?

As for answering the question about how I booked my Easter/Spring Break trip , I thought I did, but just in case.....I called based on my checkout date and booked all 7 days of the trip at one time.

What room type and at what resort?

And how did DBD present any unfair advantage to you here if you've always been able to book it.

And again, no one at MS EVER in 8 years has ever suggested that I should call DBD. So in effect, some members have knowledge about a practice when others don't. Please explain how that is fair?

Of course they would not suggest it, you just said you've always been able to book it. CM's typically floated the option only after you were unable to book something at 11 months as an alternative for the 'next time'. And I've already explained how this is perfectly fair, multiple times. Just because you aren't aware of something does not make that something 'unfair'. It just makes you less informed. Unfair would be you and I both calling and one of us being denied the option booking DBD 'just because'. That would be unfair.

Like another poster mentioned, did you know that you can get Birthday Pins at City Hall at the Magic Kingdom? By your logic, this is completely unfair as it's not noted or publically stated anywhere in the Disney provided maps and guides. So anyone that has pins is being unfair to the rest of the visitors? No, of course not ... they just knew something you didn't. Now that you know, on your birthday, you can go get your pins -- nothing stops you other than you're choice to use the knowledge, or not.

Also, using your rationale, the existing policy is completely unfair as well, as it has not really been publicly disseminated.

What about the membership perks for DVC that are noted online and via email? What if the member does not have email or Internet? Is it now 'unfair' that you know about special pricing for MVMCP? No, of course not. That member without internet can get special pricing too once they're advised that it is available - likely when they call and make a reservation/order for tickets.