New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[maminnie]

Forgive me if this has already been addressed in the last 95 pages of posts; I tried to read as much as I could to get the answer.

For those who have multiple contracts at different resorts, this seems like a real problem. Let's say I want Sunday to Sunday and I start my reservation with one contract/one home resort and that covers Sunday to Wednesday. With the new system I cannot reserve Wednesday to the next Sunday with my second contract at my other home resort until 11 months from Wednesday. By Wednesday of a busy vacation week, Wednesday to Sunday could already be taken by those that have larger/one resort contracts and started their reservation the first weekend of the busy vacation week. I am also at a distinct disadvantage because I prefer Sunday to Sunday rather than Friday to Friday or Saturday to Saturday. At least with the old system I was on the same playing field as everyone on a day by day basis. This new system (if I am understanding it correctly) really puts me at a disadvantage since I have multiple contracts/multiple home resorts versus those that have only one large contract or multiple contracts at the SAME resort and start their reservation the first weekend of a busy week and secure the entire week. What really upsets me, is if I had known this when I did my add-on, I would have bought at the same resort as my first contract or not bought at all.

Let me also add this new system supports those parents that are comfortable pulling their children out of school prior to busy vacation periods. To each his own and every parent has a right to do what they want with their children, but I personally do not take my children out of school for more then a day as I believe it is not in their best interest or the best interest of the school and their fellow classmates. This new system only encourages more of this. I'll use Thanksgiving week as an example. The family that will pull their children out for the Monday-Wednesday before Thanksgiving will now be able to reserve let's say Saturday to Saturday thereby shutting out those that do not do this and only go Wednesday to Sunday. Same with Easter, Christmas, and all busy vacation periods. Those that tend to only go for long weekends are really going to be in trouble as those that go for the whole holiday week as these people will now likely get the reservation for the holiday weekends simply by starting their vacation BEFORE the holiday weekend.

The reason we bought DVC versus another popular timeshare property was because of the FLEXIBILTY. If I was prepared to do what was necessary to reserve what I needed also with the understanding that with multiple home resorts I might have to move mid-week, I generally was able to reserve what was needed to meet the vacation needs of my family as well as our work schedules. This new system is UNFAIR and absolutely rediculous. I believe many of us would have thought twice about buying DVC or at least adding on additional points at other resorts had we known this is how the reservation system would work.

Hopefully I am missing something here and this is not as troublesome as it seems.

Thank you.
maminnie

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Oh - and Sheila say that the responses were about equal between positive and negative....

That's very interesting and laughable!
Two days ago, Sheila told me that the negative responses were outweighing the positive responses. I bet she was told to stop saying that and to just say that they are about equal. You can be sure that the negatives responses are outweighing the positives!

 

[Judy WI]

ok I may have missed this but I am still confused with the wait list. On the member site now it is listed the new police and it states:

As a result of this enhancement, waitlists are now available only for the full length of stay.

So in my confused mind it is telling me that if one day in my 5 day stay is not there I can not WL that day and if so why would I not want to take the 4 days that are there and WL for the open one?

Please help I am so confused.

I might be one who the new system will work. We will not go during the most busy times so only one call will be nice.

 

[Starr W.]

Forgive me if this has already been addressed in the last 95 pages of posts; I tried to read as much as I could to get the answer.

For those who have multiple contracts at different resorts, this seems like a real problem. Let's say I want Sunday to Sunday and I start my reservation with one contract/one home resort and that covers Sunday to Wednesday. With the new system I cannot reserve Wednesday to the next Sunday with my second contract at my other home resort until 11 months from Wednesday. By Wednesday of a busy vacation week, Wednesday to Sunday could already be taken by those that have larger/one resort contracts and started their reservation the first weekend of the busy vacation week. I am also at a distinct disadvantage because I prefer Sunday to Sunday rather than Friday to Friday or Saturday to Saturday. At least with the old system I was on the same playing field as everyone on a day by day basis. This new system (if I am understanding it correctly) really puts me at a disadvantage since I have multiple contracts/multiple home resorts versus those that have only one large contract or multiple contracts at the SAME resort and start their reservation the first weekend of a busy week and secure the entire week. What really upsets me, is if I had known this when I did my add-on, I would have bought at the same resort as my first contract or not bought at all.

Let me also add this new system supports those parents that are comfortable pulling their children out of school prior to busy vacation periods. To each his own and every parent has a right to do what they want with their children, but I personally do not take my children out of school for more then a day as I believe it is not in their best interest or the best interest of the school and their fellow classmates. This new system only encourages more of this. I'll use Thanksgiving week as an example. The family that will pull their children out for the Monday-Wednesday before Thanksgiving will now be able to reserve let's say Saturday to Saturday thereby shutting out those that do not do this and only go Wednesday to Sunday. Same with Easter, Christmas, and all busy vacation periods. Those that tend to only go for long weekends are really going to be in trouble as those that go for the whole holiday week as these people will now likely get the reservation for the holiday weekends simply by starting their vacation BEFORE the holiday weekend.

The reason we bought DVC versus another popular timeshare property was because of the FLEXIBILTY. If I was prepared to do what was necessary to reserve what I needed also with the understanding that with multiple home resorts I might have to move mid-week, I generally was able to reserve what was needed to meet the vacation needs of my family as well as our work schedules. This new system is UNFAIR and absolutely rediculous. I believe many of us would have thought twice about buying DVC or at least adding on additional points at other resorts had we known this is how the reservation system would work.

Hopefully I am missing something here and this is not as troublesome as it seems.

Thank you.
maminnie

Yep I'm one of those people with a bunch of points to blow on weekend stays and also take my kids out of school Mon-Tues of Thanksgiving week(Wed is the first off day, been for years in our district). We are heading down Friday night before Thanksgiving and staying a week. 3rd yr in a row for us. Also need to know that a lot of districts in FL and LA are going to week long Thanksgiving breaks. Learned that last year at an SSR bus stop.


I also can call right at 9am every day and I was a DBD offender for booking my Easter trips(DBD calling the "supposed" reason for the change).


Things change, I think DVC Mike has posted the relevant passages from the POS that DVC can make the changes. You have to remember the DVC'ers on the various message boards are a very small % of the total membership. Who knows maybe the vast majority of that larger group is the one that stays on the line and does the surveys and writes snail mail to Jim Lewis about DBD bookings and DBD waitlists.

 

[dvcdisney]

I guess that's where we really disagree. I do think it's appropriate to ensure one person gets the entire reservation in this situation at the expense of another not getting it. Again, it's simply a question of who gets it and who doesn't "11 months" out.

Clearly, this is where we disagree. Don't get me wrong, it would be upsetting if I had a vacation booked and I had the first few days and couldn't get the next few days because someone else called before me. And if you call at exactly the same time as I do and so happens that you get it before me is by chance and luck. There is nothing unfair about that. But if I call at 10am and you call at 9 am. It is thoroughly my fault that I didn't get that reservation. This is fair. However, if you call at 9am and was told that there are no rooms available because they have reserved this room for me to call at 10am, then that is clearly not fair. Before you say that this is not the new rule, I just want to give this example as being fair or not fair. Just because I booked a vacation date before someone else doesn't give me the right to all the dates because I am beginning my vacation before them.

I see it this way, in terms of points usage and reservations, (for example) my 1pt BCV is equal to your 1pt BCV (given this is both our Home Resort at 11mths out). I do not believe that I or you or anyone else on the same boat has any more rights to that room. We both own it equally, just because I have a vacation planned a few days before yours doesn't mean that it gives me the right to get that room before you. You SHOULD have every right to that room if you call in first. First come, First Serve. It is completely unfair for me to assume that my vacation needs are more important that yours (giving me priority). I shouldn't be allowed to finish my vacation in the expense of you STARTING yours.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand your view. I just don't consider it fair. As I said, my 1pt is equal to your 1pt (in terms of booking and Home Resort Priority), so I should have the same chance to book that room. And the only way to do it is to give everyone a chance to book it at EQUAL footing, which is day by day, FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE.

(I know that this is a ridiculous analogy, but if I came in a food line and said, I was here yesterday and I am planning on coming for the next 6 days at this time, I should be able to bypass anyone else in line. This clearly would be outrageous! So to be fair to everyone, I would have to go to the back of the line. First come, first serve.)

 

[maminnie]

Star W:

You are lucky you are able to do this. For many of us this is not an option.

I simply am suggesting that all should be on the same playing field and that the reservation system should not be set up to benefit people who choose to take their children out of school, have the luxury of taking all of a holiday week off, and have enough points to book weekends. It also should not benefit people who simply choose to travel let's say Friday to Friday versus Sunday to Sunday. (And yes I do have enough points to book the weekends, but I generally choose to come in on Sunday because of work schedules.) Just think if you were a teacher and were not permitted to take any time off before or after a vacation period. How would you feel about now? (Just to set the record straight, I am not a teacher.) As far as taking kids out of school, I once had a teacher say to me if every parent took out every child for a period of school days, the education process would be very difficult. This has stuck with me and I try to avoid taking my kids out of school at all costs even taking cruises during vacation weeks that cost thousands of dollars more and visiting Disney when crowds are almost ridiculous and unenjoyable. I also believe this is a good decision for my children educationally both of whom are straight A students and could likely handle being taken out of school.

I believe we all may have bought our points differently had we known this is how the system was going to be. I definitely would not have two contracts at two different resorts which is now going to be difficult to handle. For the record, I did not buy to get a home resort advantage at a new resort but rather I simply did not buy enough the first time and had to buy more. My resort was sold out at the time I made the second purchase through DVC.

I bought DVC because it was flexible. This new system is far from flexible unless one is able to book vacations the way you do. Good for you that you can work the system to your advantage, but for others who can't, the system is extremely unfair.

maminnie

 

[SuzanneSLO]

IF, as I suspect, they make each change for this specific program a cancelation and rebooking, these statements will be dramatically more true.

Dean, am I correct that you still think that the new system is better even if the above change is never made? Because, of course, at this time there has been no such change and there may never be such a change. -- Suzanne

 

[Chuck S]

I have a question...

To which policy (reservation/waitlist/both) do most people have obejection?

Personally, I don't think either will likely have much of an effect on me, as an OKW owner, even though I do book early December most of the time (we could go in January if December is booked).

I do understand, though, how the reservation policy could have a serious impact on some people during busy booking seasons, especially at the smaler DVC resorts. And I do think the old reservation system was the fairer of the two. I see no compelling reason to change to the "new" system. I don't know that Disney/DVC really thought the system through thoroughly before making the change.

On the other hand, I think the waitlist restriction of not doing day by day is a big plus. There would be nothing worse, for me, than having to move several times during a vacation, or having days just "missing" in the middle of a trip. I support that change.

 

[jade1]

I guess where I get lost is was it more fair under the old system for someone to have Dec 27-30, then have to check out, go somewhere else for the 31st, and then check back in for Jan 1-2? This certainly is more likely to happen with DBD...

I think this is very rare, in the last 7 years on these boards I dont remember many threads about being shut out at 9AM. Even if it does happen, I would much rather have a ressie with a hole in it like your scenario, then an entire waitlist that never comes through, when airfare is a huge factor.. Would be glad to stay at Allstars or GF or even offsite for a night in order to make the trip work-no brainer. Heck I would stroll the BW a whole night if it gets me BCV the rest of NY week.

 

[pyrxtc]

well I too got a phone call from "Sheila" yesterday. I let her know that I liked the new changes, they work fine for me. I think it's just like booking a regular hotel now but we get a better deal on price owning the points and not paying cash.

I was also told that they have a new group that is watching specifically for canceling and rebooking (a.k.a. walking a reservation) and there will be new restrictions on that as soon as they see how many people try to use this method.

I hated having to call DBD, it didn't even guarantee that I got the room I wanted.

how would you all feel if they went back to the old rules but enforced the not calling before your final checkout, thus eliminating your option of calling DBD. Then you would not be able to call til the end and someone could still have left before you and taken your room. By all reasoning, DBD calling was cheating the system and the ability to makie ressies like that could be eliminated completely if they go back to the old rules.

I think what most of you want is the old rules back with the lack of enforcing the rules. I really don't see that happening.

Again, I like these new rules. I still may not get exactly what I want when I want but I'll know on that first day and won't be bouncing around the hotel evry night or two.

 

[LisaS]

ok I may have missed this but I am still confused with the wait list. On the member site now it is listed the new police and it states:

As a result of this enhancement, waitlists are now available only for the full length of stay.

So in my confused mind it is telling me that if one day in my 5 day stay is not there I can not WL that day and if so why would I not want to take the 4 days that are there and WL for the open one?

I believe you can just waitlist that one missing night. But if you were missing two or more contiguous nights, you would have to waitlist them as a block rather than individually as you could have done in the past.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Star W:


I believe we all may have bought our points differently had we known this is how the system was going to be....... I bought DVC because it was flexible. This new system is far from flexible unless one is able to book vacations the way you do. Good for you that you can work the system to your advantage, but for others who can't, the system is extremely unfair.

maminnie

This statement is very true for us, and I too would bet that a lot of the small add on's at other resorts would not have been done. It's just one of the problems I have with this change. Every single owner prior to this bought in with the old reservation system of having equal access at 11 months and 7 months. I don't think it's correct to change the rules so much as to change the way a system was set up and sold, and comments seem to abound that this system now favors owners who stay for 7 days - starting on a Saturday.

I have a question...

To which policy (reservation/waitlist/both) do most people have obejection?

Personally, I don't think either will likely have much of an effect on me, as an OKW owner, even though I do book early December most of the time (we could go in January if December is booked).

I do understand, though, how the reservation policy could have a serious impact on some people during busy booking seasons, especially at the smaler DVC resorts. And I do think the old reservation system was the fairer of the two. I see no compelling reason to change to the "new" system. I don't know that Disney/DVC really thought the system through thoroughly before making the change.

On the other hand, I think the waitlist restriction of not doing day by day is a big plus. There would be nothing worse, for me, than having to move several times during a vacation, or having days just "missing" in the middle of a trip. I support that change.

For me the greatest objection is to the reservation portion of the policy. However, I don't really have any objection to the old day by day waitlist. It was still my choice whether I selected to use it or not. I probably would not have and think that under the new system I may then benefit from the waitlist change, (although I finally put this all down on a spreadhsheet last night and am starting to doubt that too) In my mind I bought what I bought, I did not expect a change, and I'd be 100% behind going back to the system.

 

[Doctor P]

I will agree that the new system can work OK, but I would suggest a couple policies that other hotels or lodging establishments have used: 1) you cannot shorten your stay by taking days off the front end without cancelling and rebooking the reservation--this prevents "walking" a reservation but also allows more flexibility than a "no changes" policy; 2) apart from an initial reservation of the check-in plus 7 variety, no days may be booked prior to the eleven month window for that particular day. While there still may be some problems associated with GV's at some times and some associated with particular units with respect to BW views, I would think that even those would likely work out at most times. I don't like the philosophy behind allowing booking of NYE or other "hot" nights based on when you start your vacation, but a few policies to prevent/reduce abuse will likely even make that problem minimal for the most part. Of course, that assumes no morphing of points, but that is a whole different thread, LOL.

 

[Starr W.]

Star W:

You are lucky you are able to do this. For many of us this is not an option.

I simply am suggesting that all should be on the same playing field and that the reservation system should not be set up to benefit people who choose to take their children out of school, have the luxury of taking all of a holiday week off, and have enough points to book weekends. It also should not benefit people who simply choose to travel let's say Friday to Friday versus Sunday to Sunday. (And yes I do have enough points to book the weekends, but I generally choose to come in on Sunday because of work schedules.) Just think if you were a teacher and were not permitted to take any time off before or after a vacation period. How would you feel about now? (Just to set the record straight, I am not a teacher.) As far as taking kids out of school, I once had a teacher say to me if every parent took out every child for a period of school days, the education process would be very difficult. This has stuck with me and I try to avoid taking my kids out of school at all costs even taking cruises during vacation weeks that cost thousands of dollars more and visiting Disney when crowds are almost ridiculous and unenjoyable. I also believe this is a good decision for my children educationally both of whom are straight A students and could likely handle being taken out of school.

I believe we all may have bought our points differently had we known this is how the system was going to be. I definitely would not have two contracts at two different resorts which is now going to be difficult to handle. For the record, I did not buy to get a home resort advantage at a new resort but rather I simply did not buy enough the first time and had to buy more. My resort was sold out at the time I made the second purchase through DVC.

I bought DVC because it was flexible. This new system is far from flexible unless one is able to book vacations the way you do. Good for you that you can work the system to your advantage, but for others who can't, the system is extremely unfair.

maminnie

Give yourself a twinkie for not pulling your kids out of school, because there are a lot more that would pull them for a full week to go to WDW(I feel that a full week is way too much) and get ahead of you in the reservation line. We pick Thanksgiving because they miss 2 days that really not much is getting done.

Well the previous system was not fair to people who couldn't call dbd at 9am to book the 1st 2weeks of December or NYE and get a BW/SV room at BWV. Robinb can tell you about that. I've seen enough threads on this board about NYE booking and for a lot of resorts if you weren't doing day by day or being very close to the 11 month window you got hosed too.

Trust me, there are people who will figure out every loophole of the new rules, just like they had in the "old system" I think someone said on this thread" I paid alot of money for DVC and I will invest the time to find the way to have the system work for me"(that is pretty much the standard operating practice of owning any sort of timeshare).

 

[Chuck S]

I think what most of you want is the old rules back with the lack of enforcing the rules. I really don't see that happening.

Again, I like these new rules. I still may not get exactly what I want when I want but I'll know on that first day and won't be bouncing around the hotel evry night or two.

Two comments...

1)there was no "lack of enforcement" under the old system. The system allowed for day by day booking, based upon check-out day. However, that didn't mean that the reservations would have to be linked, which could mean a check-in/check-out daily. But enforcing the non-linking would be expensive, as it would also mean "free" full housekeeping daily, paid for by all members dues.

2) If you typically stay longer than 7 nights, you'll not "know" that first day if you have your entire reservation. You will still need to call day by day during busy seasons to secure a longer reservation, you still may be bouncing around the hotel during the latter part of your stay.

 

[robinb]

On the other hand, I think the waitlist restriction of not doing day by day is a big plus. There would be nothing worse, for me, than having to move several times during a vacation, or having days just "missing" in the middle of a trip. I support that change.

You always had the ability to waitlist for the whole time if you didn't want to take a chance at not getting your 2-3 missing days in the middle. You were not required to WL day-by-day. Also, you could have the same problem under the new system with two separate reservations with your WL "hole" in the middle.

 

[maminnie]

I don't think it says anywhere that day by day calling is breaking the rules. It was actually encouraged by seasoned reservationists when booking busy vacation periods. What it did was put everyone on the same playing field for each day of busy vacation weeks. Now those that travel earlier in a busy vacation week or even leave a few days ahead of time have a key advantage. As I have said multiple times, I would not have bought my add-on at a different resort if these were the rules.

Keep in mind this new system will not only effect reservations but will effect the waitlist as well. Those who have an earlier check-in date for their reservation at the 11 month window for a busy travel period will now also have priority when going on the waitlist for another resort at seven months. Also those that have a split stay due to multiple contracts who simply do not want to have to move will also have more difficulty because of those that have already gone on the waitlist for the whole week prior to the day they can do it based on their check-in date for the second half of their stay.

I truly believe this new system has many unfair issues. At least with the old system in which reservationists encouraged people to call day by day for busy travel periods, everyone was on the same playing field at 9:00am at the 11 month window for each day of their vacation.

There are those of you who said you could not call day by day, I too have had this problem but worked through it even having a family member call for me if I could not be on the phone at 9:00am on a certain day. Changing vacation arrival times are not always an option just to make reservations during a busy time and to beat out a system that is truly unfair.

maminnie

 

[pyrxtc]

2) If you typically stay longer than 7 nights, you'll not "know" that first day if you have your entire reservation. You will still need to call day by day during busy seasons to secure a longer reservation, you still may be bouncing around the hotel during the latter part of your stay.

I'll know that I have it because noone can book my room before i can for my extended dates. I can call on the 2nd or 3rd day of my ressie and add on my days (was told so by Sheila) until the days I want are done. Technically I can wait to add on day til the 6th night since noone can take MY room til the 7th. They can extend THEIR room dates but not take MY room. Thus it would eliminate any bouncing aroudn at all.

If I get my 2 bedroom concierge my first day, I can guarantee that I have it for the entire time I am there. Nobody can take it until I the day I check out. That is the joy of being able to make my ressies from the first day til the last. I won't end up in a 2 bed one night and only be able to get a 1 bed the rest like I have this December.

If I make my ressie for 7 days starting on the 1st , and Mary calls on the 4th wanting the same type of room and it is not available, she cannot waitlist the first few days and get the room on the 7th if I haven't called yet to add my nights. She will have to call every day to find out if ther is a room available for a ngiht she wants in the type of room she wants. If first date avail is the 9th, then she can waitlist from the 4th to the 9th for a cancelation and hope it comes thru and book from the 9th to the 11th.

that's why I LOVE this new way since if I get my first day, I am guaranteed the rest of my stay in the same room type until I want to check out. So long as I remember to call before the 7th day to extend my vacation.

 

[pilferk]

I have a question...

To which policy (reservation/waitlist/both) do most people have obejection?

Personally, I don't think either will likely have much of an effect on me, as an OKW owner, even though I do book early December most of the time (we could go in January if December is booked).

I do understand, though, how the reservation policy could have a serious impact on some people during busy booking seasons, especially at the smaler DVC resorts. And I do think the old reservation system was the fairer of the two. I see no compelling reason to change to the "new" system. I don't know that Disney/DVC really thought the system through thoroughly before making the change.

On the other hand, I think the waitlist restriction of not doing day by day is a big plus. There would be nothing worse, for me, than having to move several times during a vacation, or having days just "missing" in the middle of a trip. I support that change.

Both...and here's why:

I agree with your POV on the reservation system. I think it's patently unfair, and rife with (as it stands) opportunities for abuse. The old system was inherently "fair" because, like waiting for tickets to an event, it's all about where you que up. Win or lose, at least the playing field was even. Now, if you start your vacation 3 days before mine...you have an early advantage on booking the room I want. And if you have more points, you can book time you DON'T ever plan to use, in order to get an advantage. Neither of those seems fair.

On the wait list....I see your POV and also see the POV of those who, ultimately, don't mind some resort switching. It's ultimately about choice....and I suppose some of that sort of went away with the auto wait list. The problem now is it eliminates much of the flexibility that DID remain, even after the auto wait list went into effect. You COULD choose to wait list day by day, and move. I'd be much happier if that choice remained along with the choice of doing a "full stay" wait list. Not the removal of one for the exclusivity of the other.

 

[mrdiscranky]

I will agree that the new system can work OK, but I would suggest a couple policies that other hotels or lodging establishments have used:

I think Disney will have to do such things to "fix" the new system. At some point, however, Disney should remember that the whole point of the system was to make things better. You've now got the problems of the new system, plus a whole host of new problems you get from the changes you need to make to fix the new system. If the net result of all the changes isn't better than the old system, they should admit defeat and retreat to the old system.

Unfortunately, from my years in corporate America, I know this isn't how corporations think. Folks will pile on layer after layer of "fixes" to any change without every considering the idea that it was a mistake in the first place.