New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[dianeschlicht]

I just want to throw out that THIS is the exact point where I think some are making a bit of a logic error in evaluating the new system.

The assumption always seems to be that reservations will stick to some sort of Sunday-based schedule (Sunday to Thursday, Sun to Fri, Sun to Sat, etc.) That's not necessarily true.

All it takes is someone staying LONGER than a week or LESS than five nights (both of which can, do and will continue to happen often) to disrupt that perception. In your case, if a guest books AKV Concierge for Sunday to TUESDAY, he'll be vacating a room just in time for you to arrive on Wednesday. From a booking standpoint, there is no way for anyone to book that room prior to 11 months out on WEDNESDAY.

Even if we accept that most DVC stays begin on a Sunday, there remain many which are less than 5 nights and many that are longer than 7 nights. It's those short and long stays which will feed the ability for members to book mid-week arrivals.

Okay, that is what you believe, but that didn't answer my question.

Can I get a "leg up" by dividing my original ressie? In other words, could I book the first three nights of my OKW ressie and then call back and book the last 4 nights of OKW and add the 3 nights of AKV that are within 7 days? I know that sounds convoluted and confusing, but why not???

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

There is a tremendous amount of flexibility within the DVC system, but flexibility should not be construed to mean that you are guaranteed a reservation whenever you want it. As it has always been, reservations are "based on availability".

That is true and nothing that I have stated has been about having guaranteed reservations. That would be a traditional timeshare with an assigned week and is exactly what I don't want to see happen. This change in reservations "seems" to be changing towards the traditional timeshare which Disney wanted to point out that they were not.

 

[LisaS]

Can I get a "leg up" by dividing my original ressie? In other words, could I book the first three nights of my OKW ressie and then call bacl and book the last 4 nights of OKW and add the 3 nights of AKV that are within 7 days? I know that sounds convoluted and confusing, but why not???

No because even though they are two parts of one WDW vacation, they are two completely different reservations. Your OKW reservation is for 7 nights at one resort. Your AKV reservation is for 3 nights at a different resort -- a different reservation with a later check-in date. You cannot book the AKV reservation until 11 months prior to that 3-night stay.

So with this scenario you would want to book your 7-night stay at OKW 11 months from your check-in day. One week later (at 11 months from your AKV check in day) you can book the AKV reservation.

 

[jdg345]

You can't have a reservation with a "hole" in it. If you start with a reservation for Jan 1 - 7 with conf # 12345 and you cancel 2 days in the middle, say Jan 4th and 5th, but you want to keep the nights of Jan 6th and 7th, those have to be set up as a new reservation with a new conf # because you will be checking out on Jan 4th and checking back in on Jan 6th. If you are doing this prior to Feb 6th (11 months prior to Jan 6th), you shouldn't be allowed to create that new reservation.

So I believe pyrxtc is correct. If you are booking a new reservation on your earliest possible day, if day 1 is available then the remaining days will be available. We should not see this particular problem of getting the first day and the 3rd day but not the second day.

Thanks!

 

[Inkmahm]

tjkraz - I don't think it's necessarily that everyone believes that *they* will always get what they want calling day-by-day at 9am.

I think the meat of the matter, to me at least, is that the choice is now totally out of my hands. I could make the choice to call and *try* to fill all my dates day-by-day if I chose to. If I called at 9am and I got a slow CM or more people in front of me in the queue, that's the breaks. I did what *I* could to book my reservation.

This new policy takes that control out of a member's hands. You now have people booking a week in advance of your check in date...and there's nothing you can do about it.

That * possibility* of those circumstances happening, a realistic one in some situations that we've all already discussed, is where the problem lies.

I agree that for non busy times, not CL, no GVs, etc., this policy will likely be embraced in most situations. But for the others...it's just become very sticky compared to the previous policy.

I know that sometimes we all need to chew on new things and let them work themselves out, but we have had no official communication from DVC. That, too, is probably fuelling the speculation as well and could have been avoided if they were on top of communicating with the membership better.

Thank you. I agree 100%.

 

[jarestel]

That is true and nothing that I have stated has been about having guaranteed reservations. That would be a traditional timeshare with an assigned week and is exactly what I don't want to see happen. This change in reservations "seems" to be changing towards the traditional timeshare which Disney wanted to point out that they were not.

The change in reservation systems, for the vast majority of members, over most of the year will have no effect whatsoever. Members need to be flexible as well as DVC in order to maximize the benefits of a DVC membership.

 

[jdg345]

I have existing 7 night reservation in our family name at SSR for february 2009.

I want to try to change last 2 nights for BWV Boardwalk view studio.

best way before was to wait until 7 months and call.

Now I can't do that. Actually I can, but there's a good chance that a family may have booked the BW view room before I even have the chance at the 7 month window. So to get around that...

Can I do it this way...

Change existing reservation into friend's name to be later changed back into our family name at the end of the bookings.

Book in July under mine and dh name for BWV BWview studio for 7 nights only planning to keep last 2 nights. Of course book for arrival date of original reservation, planning to only keep last 2 nights (we have enough points to do this).

Then drop 1st 5 nights on 2nd ressie at BWV. Wait past 30 days of course (ok for my banking points deadline), keeping only the days I originally planned anyhow.

Then drop last 2 nights on 1st reservation at SSR.

Then change name on 1st reservation back to ours.

Then we'll have 5 days SSR and 2 days BWV in our name.

I know I can't have 2 reservations for same days under my name, but if I wait for arrival date for last 2 nights, I bet for that time period, they won't be available.

I know it's confusing, but can I do it this way? Can you tell I really prefer the previous booking system?

I don't see why this wouldn't work ... Of course, the Irony would be if DVC implemented this system to reduce calls to MS.

I'm not answering the phones, but I really don't see how much volume would decrease if DBD disappeared. The first call takes a bit, but the follow up calls are usually really quick as they have the LOS noted in the original reservation.

 

[mello]

That is true and nothing that I have stated has been about having guaranteed reservations. That would be a traditional timeshare with an assigned week and is exactly what I don't want to see happen. This change in reservations "seems" to be changing towards the traditional timeshare which Disney wanted to point out that they were not.

Yes, we bought a timeshare. But, a very important part of the selling point is that it is a timeshare based on points which may be used on any size unit at any time and for any length of time, pending availability, and not on 7 days in a certain sized unit. We have looked at many timeshares, and we literally never bought that approach either. Disney has indeed been touted as different, and that difference is critical.

 

[jdg345]

So how would this scenario work????

Say I want to stay for 10 nights. I want to arrive on a Tuesday in a 1 bedroom at OKW and book a week, and then I want AKV concierge starting on the following Wednesday for 3 nights. I can't book the concierge when I call for the first week of my trip, and if I wait until the 11 month window for my Wednesday stay, it will likely be already booked early by someone staying the whole week. Can I get a "leg up" by dividing my original ressie? In other words, could I book the first three nights of my OKW ressie and then call bacl and book the last 4 nights of OKW and add the 3 nights of AKV that are within 7 days? I know that sounds convoluted and confusing, but why not???

This is a vacation I just planned to book, and the new policy makes me pretty sure I'm not going to get the AKV-CV portion of it. I really want to use up my remaining AKV points for the year so I don't have any banked '09 points from AKV. I want to make a bigger AKV reservation in 2011, so I want to bank '10 points into '11 and borrow '12 points from my AKV contract. For that reason, I don't want to have to bank the 42 '09 points I have left in that contract. Booking the Conceirge level for 3 nights on the end of my December '09 trip would take care of them and I'd only have 3 points to worry about losing or transfering or whatever.

I think you'd be okay booking the first (3) nights, and then booking the last (4) nights ... it's when you want to add the (3) at AKV that I think you get stuck. I was told today that the 7 day's have to be at the same resort for the same room type if you want to be able to "pre-book" based on arrival date. If that does indeed turn out to be the case, you'd have to book one reservation for the (7) nights at OKW, and then 3 days later, try to book (7) AKV nights with the intention of dropping off the first four days once confirmed and beyond 11 months from departure. Though it sounds like you'd need to borrow to do that, which is something you don't want to do. Of course, you could wait 4 more days and just book AKV at 11 months prior to arrival, but you might be out of luck for one or more of the days. It'll be interesting to see if they allow you to waitlist for your first/second day and book the rest. Something tells me they won't as a waitlist isn't a reservation. The good news would be that if those days are booked, no one else can get them either so you should be able to get in on the first available day if you call early enough and waitlist the previous days.

I still say the new setup favors renters and those that have larger point banks. If I have the points, what's to stop me from booking December 19th to the 26th under 20 different names during one call?

 

[jarestel]

Yes, we bought a timeshare. But, a very important part of the selling point is that it is a timeshare based on points which may be used on any size unit at any time and for any length of time, pending availability, and not on 7 days in a certain sized unit. We have looked at many timeshares, and we literally never bought that approach either. Disney has indeed been touted as different, and that difference is critical.

All you say is true, as long as you add the phrase "based on availability" to the litany.

 

[jdg345]

Actually many changes now are supposed to be a cancelation and rebooking though DVC is hit or miss in their application. I guess this is one of my pet peeves, one I've tried to get across to this group over the years, that you DID buy a timeshare. It may have been different in your mind but in the big scheme it really isn't other than that each and every timeshare is different from each other and they all change over time. You made assumptions that may not have been true about DVC and were not truly protected. To me a minimum LOS and a streamlined reservation system were/are inevitable outcomes and I'm surprised it took this long. When I've posted that something had to happen eventually a number have stated it would never happen because it's DVC. I guess they'll listen better next time.

Did you feel this way because you're familiar with other types of time shares and consider them to be 'the standard' ? Isn't one of DVC's big selling points that they are *NOT* the average time share? Should we just consider that was a bunch of smoke to lure in a couple hundred thousand members only to pull the rug out from under them?

To date, there is no minimum LOS, is there? And the jury is still out as to whether or not this will streamline the reservation system or just create more work as people figure out ways around the new policy.

 

[jdg345]

That is true and nothing that I have stated has been about having guaranteed reservations. That would be a traditional timeshare with an assigned week and is exactly what I don't want to see happen. This change in reservations "seems" to be changing towards the traditional timeshare which Disney wanted to point out that they were not.

Exactly! Much of the Sales Presentation seems to focus on the fact that DVC is not a traditional timeshare and has all of this flexibility. It seems strange that they would start taking inflexible things from other timeshares and making them their own.

 

[jdg345]

All you say is true, as long as you add the phrase "based on availability" to the litany.

The did, didn't they? pending availability

 

[mello]

The change in reservation systems, for the vast majority of members, over most of the year will have no effect whatsoever. Members need to be flexible as well as DVC in order to maximize the benefits of a DVC membership.

... is that members are already suggesting that additional rules be made to keep spec renters from using this new system to get the jump on other owners. The proposed rule changes are the ones which would, in reality, reduce our flexibility. If we can no longer make changes to our ressies, whether through cancellations or otherwise (depending upon the suggested new rule in question), then we all have much less flexibility, and that is not a good thing.

 

[zulaya]

Maybe I missed the boat...

From what I understand DVC is not telling us we *have* to book a 7-day vacation.

They are telling us we can book UP TO 7 consecutive days on a reservation, starting 11 months from check-in.

I really don't think this is a move to push members to 7 day vacations. I think 7 days was picked out of the clear blue sky, maybe with some rationale behind it. There are people who stay for the weekend. There are people who stay 3 or 4 days on one end of a cruise. For that matter, there are people who stay 1 night before or after a cruise. There are people who stay 7 days because it's convenient for taking time off work. And then there are people who stay 10+ days because they want to, or travel from far enough away that that length of time makes sense.

DVC would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tried to make us all have 7 day vacations. And we'd all be selling left and right if it happened.

I think, again, someone thinks they are doing us a favor by allowing us to book up to 7 days on one phone call. But I just can't see forced 7 days ever happening.

 

[mello]

All you say is true, as long as you add the phrase "based on availability" to the litany.

Availability is not my issue at all. (Nor does it sound like it is an issue for the PP). My issue is with increasing rules and regulations. That, and I do not want to see DVC become a standard 7-day timeshare.

 

[jarestel]

... is that members are already suggesting that additional rules be made to keep spec renters from using this new system to get the jump on other owners. The proposed rule changes are the ones which would, in reality, reduce our flexibility. If we can no longer make changes to our ressies, whether through cancellations or otherwise (depending upon the suggested new rule in question), then we all have much less flexibility, and that is not a good thing.

You're making an assumption that may not be based in fact. DVC has already taken steps to curtail what they consider to be commercial renting. As far as another "regular" member deciding to rent out a reservation, well that is entirely within the rules and something we will just have to accept, like it or not.

Whoops... looks like you edited your post as I was responding. Based on your new POV, I would simply say that DVC will in all probability do what is in the best interests of the membership as a whole and not simply a few dozen DIS board members. I guess a decision has to be made on whether this can be lived with or not.

 

[mello]

Maybe I missed the boat...

From what I understand DVC is not telling us we *have* to book a 7-day vacation.

They are telling us we can book UP TO 7 consecutive days on a reservation, starting 11 months from check-in.

I really don't think this is a move to push members to 7 day vacations. I think 7 days was picked out of the clear blue sky, maybe with some rationale behind it. There are people who stay for the weekend. There are people who stay 3 or 4 days on one end of a cruise. For that matter, there are people who stay 1 night before or after a cruise. There are people who stay 7 days because it's convenient for taking time off work. And then there are people who stay 10+ days because they want to, or travel from far enough away that that length of time makes sense.

DVC would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tried to make us all have 7 day vacations. And we'd all be selling left and right if it happened.

I think, again, someone thinks they are doing us a favor by allowing us to book up to 7 days on one phone call. But I just can't see forced 7 days ever happening.

But the upshot is that people who want to stay longer than 7 days are at a disadvantage, and people who want to stay shorter than 7 days are at a disadvantage - whether that disadvantage is perceived or real (for most of the year it really shouldn't make any difference anyway, but people will think it does), so people will make 7 day reservations because they can, or they think they should, in order to work the system to their advantage. There have already been numerous posts about this. Then, the response is, "We have to stop people from working the system! Let's make new rules!" And the rule-making frenzy begins. If proposed rules were enacted, we wouldn't be able to make any name changes on our ressies, or add to them, or cancel them, or resort-switch, or any number of other things. And with no way around the system, 7 day stays will become the norm, and there will be very little chance of getting a ressie that doesn't conform to that. Whether that is an intended consequence or not, who knows? And maybe none of that will happen. At least we can hope!!!

 

[robinb]

Assuming you want NYE you'd have to decide how badly you want it. Do you want it bad enough to reserve starting Xmas day? If not, you'd have to decide what risks YOU were willing to take in getting what you want or not realizing that the specific choices might affect your chances of success and thus you might NOT get what you want. A large part of my thinking is this is OK that some will be worse off than before.

So ... I can either "risk" not getting NYE next January when I make my reservation by waiting until the true start of my vacation or I can "choose" to book a smaller villa that I might not really want because I don't have enough points to cover all the days between Xmas Day and NY Day in a 1BR. A standard view for 12/25/09 - 1/1/10 is 310 points! Sunday 12/27/09 -1/1/10 is only 160 points for that same 1 BR.

So, for me to book over 12/31/09 (even assuming that they will allow me to cancel 12/25/09 and 12/26/09) I would either have to borrow 110 of my 200 BWV villa points to cover the temporary two days or I would have to be forced to rent a studio instead.

 

[jdg345]

Maybe I missed the boat...

From what I understand DVC is not telling us we *have* to book a 7-day vacation.

They are telling us we can book UP TO 7 consecutive days on a reservation, starting 11 months from check-in.

I really don't think this is a move to push members to 7 day vacations. I think 7 days was picked out of the clear blue sky, maybe with some rationale behind it. There are people who stay for the weekend. There are people who stay 3 or 4 days on one end of a cruise. For that matter, there are people who stay 1 night before or after a cruise. There are people who stay 7 days because it's convenient for taking time off work. And then there are people who stay 10+ days because they want to, or travel from far enough away that that length of time makes sense.

DVC would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tried to make us all have 7 day vacations. And we'd all be selling left and right if it happened.

I think, again, someone thinks they are doing us a favor by allowing us to book up to 7 days on one phone call. But I just can't see forced 7 days ever happening.

I agree ... I believe they picked 7 days because they probably have some statistical data that shows some large majority of reservations would be captured by using this figure.