New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[TisBit]

Or are you proposing that EACH time you add a day, they extend the 11 month window to THAT day? So if you call to add days, your "cancel window" gets extended? I'm not sure, systematically, that would work either since, I suspect, they handle "extensions" like they did DBD booking.....

Yes, that is it. The entire stay (including added days) must be within the 11 month period prior to any days being canceled. This would limit members to reserving only the number of nights that they have points for, preventing "walking".

 

[jdg345]

I'm not too thrilled with the new wait list policy. You can only wait list the entire booking or nothing at all. So...if one or two nights come through, they will probably be gone before your whole week could come through.

Yup, exactly.

I suppose you could call every day and book nights in the middle yourself, but if you are reserved for, say, a Monday through Friday, and you move Tuesday and Thursday over to your preferred resort, you cannot then waitlist the Monday and Wednesday, they have to be consecutive.

Yes, and No.

Yes you could call every day, multiple times a day, to see if you can book the days individually and manully 'fill in' your waitlist. (And DVC says these changes will reduce call volumes!)

No, they do not have to be consecutive. You can WL for December 2nd, December 5th through 8th, and December 10th. They would be (4) separate WL's. If you get the 2nd, it'll fill. If you get the 7th and 8th, it will not fill until the 5th and 6th are also available. Etc.

 

[jdg345]

You can waitlist non consecutive days....they just will be different list. Consecutive days must be one (or that is my understanding).

Correct.

The only good part of the new waitlist is that everyone has to wait for their entire stay to come available, so those one or two nights will be less likely to be picked up individually (or that is the theory at least).

Those wise to the system can call Daily, several times if they like, to manually fill in that waitlist. So, in essence, it becomes harder to fill the new waitlist by entire stay. It also raises the possibility that someone who called after you gets days on your waitlsit even though you calls days, weeks, or months before they did. FCFS Indeed!

 

[pilferk]

Yes, that is it. The entire stay (including added days) must be within the 11 month period prior to any days being canceled. This would limit members to reserving only the number of nights that they have points for, preventing "walking".

Gotcha!

I think the issue is that, to do that, you have to cancel and rebook the entire stay.

That's why, I think, the old DBD system worked the way it did. It was easier to book single days and then link them all into a single confirmation number than it was to "add" a day to the existing reservation.

I don't think you could "add" days without using the same functionality...but not knowing their software, I don't know that for sure. Just suspect it by the way things worked previously.

You can get around it, too, by FIRST cancelling, and THEN adding one day. So you cancel within the 11 month window (on the 8th) and THEN add the 9th. You still have that one day advantage, and the system would THINK you were within the 11 month window when you cancelled...which you would then extend when you added your day. The question is: Would MS allow it, if the software did, or not.

 

[TisBit]

Those wise to the system can call Daily, several times if they like, to manually fill in that waitlist. So, in essence, it becomes harder to fill the new waitlist by entire stay. It also raises the possibility that someone who called after you gets days on your waitlsit even though you calls days, weeks, or months before they did. FCFS Indeed!

I am still hoping that they will fix that issue and figure out how to not put those days back into inventory (maybe they already have and haven't told us about that either! )

 

[jdg345]

I am still hoping that they will fix that issue and figure out how to not put those days back into inventory (maybe they already have and haven't told us about that either! )

 

[TisBit]

I think the issue is that, to do that, you have to cancel and rebook the entire stay.

I don't see you needing to cancel the whole ressie. We don't have to now, I can call now and just drop days off. You would just need that one simple rule to prevent walking the reservation using the 11+7

You can get around it, too, by FIRST cancelling, and THEN adding one day. So you cancel within the 11 month window (on the 8th) and THEN add the 9th.

Actually you couldn't, because you could not cancel until the day after your check out, so you would have to cancel first thing in the morning on the 9th, after the reservation has been completed (maybe I didn't explain that very well the first time around).

 

[jdg345]

I don't see you needing to cancel the whole ressie. We don't have to now, I can call now and just drop days off. You would just need that one simple rule to prevent walking the reservation using the 11+7



Actually you couldn't, because you could not cancel until the day after your check out, so you would have to cancel first thing in the morning on the 9th, after the reservation has been completed (maybe I didn't explain that very well the first time around).

But you could create 2 or more [overlapping] reservations so that one falls in line with the other.

 

[TisBit]

But you could create 2 or more [overlapping] reservations so that one falls in line with the other.

You could...it would be point intensive and more complicated.

It would also not guarantee you get a room. You have the Dec 1-8 reservation and call on the 8th to book 8-15 to make it overlapping...but if there are no rooms available for the 8th (when you already have one) than you go into a waitlist, the first reservation really did nothing to help you guarantee your reservation.

(I also know that there would be ways around the system even with my suggested change, but it this simple change would keep "walking" down to a minimum and not penalize anyone who needs to make changes in the future.)

 

[dvcdisney]

(I also know that there would be ways around the system even with my suggested change, but it this simple change would keep "walking" down to a minimum and not penalize anyone who needs to make changes in the future.)

That's all we can hope for at this time, I suppose.

 

[jdg345]

You could...it would be point intensive and more complicated.

Agreed, but not so much that people wouldn't do it, imo.

It would also not guarantee you get a room. You have the Dec 1-8 reservation and call on the 8th to book 8-15 to make it overlapping...but if there are no rooms available for the 8th (when you already have one) than you go into a waitlist, the first reservation really did nothing to help you guarantee your reservation.

It depends on availability. For example, I could:

Day-1: Book Dec 1 - 8
Day-2: Book Dec 2 - 9

This essentially gives me control over the 1st through the 9th.

On the 9th, I can cancel the 1-8 stay, releasing those points, and I have the 9th locked up as well. I can then cancel 2-9, putting the 9th on hold and extending through the 16th ... then I can do 10th through 17th the following day and repeat the process. And, if they execute the hold properly, I don't even need to tie up that many points as I could call on the 8th and do the same, since that is 11 months and I already have that day locked, which means no one can possibly have my room tomorrow.

(I also know that there would be ways around the system even with my suggested change, but it this simple change would keep "walking" down to a minimum and not penalize anyone who needs to make changes in the future.)

I think people will take any additional changes and just continue to come up with ways to maximize the use of their membership.

 

[Doctor P]

Certainly for those oblivious, both systems have negatives, whether you know it or not. But for one who didn't know about the DBD option, the old system was not a level playing field either as some would like you to believe. "Fairness" is an illusion with most any system. It is fact that not everyone knew of the DBD option and those that didn't, had no assured way of finding out. All know or will know (or at least have the opportunity to know) of the new system since DVC is advertising it in options that will go to every primary contact. Same cannot be said for walking as it will fall under the same variables as DBD did which is one of the reasons I expect it to be controlled in some way, we shall see.

Once again, I am not sure what planet or frame of reference your comments originate from. DBD is a tactic that I didn't learn on the DIS OR from DVC. It is a well established means of getting a multi-night reservation in any system that opens their reservations a certain number of days before the date in question. In fact, that's also how I know about walking and know about the cancellation of early nights under such a system. Just as an example, Labor Day weekend is a busy holiday weekend at many resorts in the Midwest. I learned the tactic from other experienced travelers that a way to guarantee the Labor Day reservation was to book the weekend before for a twelve or so day reservation and then cancel the front end of the reservation to leave the coveted Labor Day reservation only (BTW, I have actually never done that). Last summer, when making a campground reservation for a holiday weekend for which we were actually arriving a week in advance I was shocked that I could book the holiday weekend at the time that the reservation window opened for the first night--but then I saw that they had incorporated the now very common policy that I have referred to before: that a cancellation of one or more days resulting in a later arrival date would result in cancellation of the entire reservation. The tactics for DBD are out there for anyone who takes the time to be an informed consumer of travel services. For anyone to argue that DBD was unfair because it was explicitly disclosed in the POS is like arguing that somehow a car dealer committed fraud by not telling you that driving 65 will use more gasoline than driving 55. Or, more on point, that a hotel is somehow dishonest in that it doesn't reveal on the price list for the honor bar in the room that the same items can be purchased cheaper downstairs in the gift shop. At some point, people have to be responsible for doing their own legwork, and those people that do not do the legwork should not be able to complain that those who do are getting an unfair advantage.

 

[Doctor P]

Whilst wading in at this point in proceedings seems dangerous at best, it strikes me that all questions of 'fairness' are less worrying to me than knowing that now I no longer have to be concerned about having a checkerboard reservation. I'd rather have a lower chance of getting all my days (as long as I've still got some reasonable chance) than a higher chance of getting half of them.

On another note, it's been a fun read all thanks

Tom

That's fine and dandy if that start and end dates of your annual vacation are not set in stone. For some of us, that is not the case. The time we can go is fixed and unchangeable, therefore one pulls out all stops to make sure that the reservations get made in a timely and effective fashion.

 

[Sammie]

From a system perspective, the room is still being booked and occupied so some member is getting something and therefore it is seen as a wash -- in both cases, members got rooms.

And in reality that is all the current DVC management cares about, rooms being filled, they could care less if they were filled with Member A or Member X and really do not care if Member C gets left out.

And if this saves them money, even better.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

You could...it would be point intensive and more complicated.

It would also not guarantee you get a room. You have the Dec 1-8 reservation and call on the 8th to book 8-15 to make it overlapping...but if there are no rooms available for the 8th (when you already have one) than you go into a waitlist, the first reservation really did nothing to help you guarantee your reservation.

(I also know that there would be ways around the system even with my suggested change, but it this simple change would keep "walking" down to a minimum and not penalize anyone who needs to make changes in the future.)

While I realize you are trying to suggest a modest change with modest collateral impacts, I think that your suggestion will only stop the marathon walkers.

It will not stop those with enough points in a single UY to book their entire desired vacation, and who want to book in advance of their banking deadline. Those members will be able to "walk" a reservation by booking 2X the desired number of nights, holding that reservation until the cancellation period expires, then cancelling the unneeded days and banking the unused points.

For my early Dec vacation this year I booked more nights than I thought we wanted to give us flexibility when scheduling air travel. By some members standards, it was probably unethical to do so, but I held those extra nights until May when our airfare was booked, then cancelled. I am using those points for a vacation next May, so had no personal need to put them back into my account until June. We only have 175 points (but book a studio), so if we can hold extra nights for some period of time, I would guess many other members can as well.

And as to the marathon walking for months that some have joked they would try, those willing to engage in this practice would seem to be the smallest group of all. To walk, all you need is for that first night to be available. On another post, several members have posted finding availability as late as July for Saturday nights in December. Thus, even for NYE, there is porbably no need to start walking sooner than Dec.

Yes, you could start walking towards NYE now, but you could also get in line tonight for the Black Friday sale at Best Buy. If you did so, you will be guaranteed first place in line, but sleeping in a parking lot for that many nights will probably not be necessary to achieve ths result. -- Suzanne

 

[keishashadow]

Yes, you could start walking towards NYE now, but you could also get in line tonight for the Black Friday sale at Best Buy. If you did so, you will be guaranteed first place in line, but sleeping in a parking lot for that many nights will probably not be necessary to achieve ths result. -- Suzanne

yet, it will achieve the result, if the member is willing to expend the effort....especially commercial renters who have more to lose, based upon their need to turn a profit by booking the prime-time vacation slots.

i've quit visiting BB on Black Friday. In our area the college kids are in line mid day on Thanksgiving, they buy up the big ticket items for profitable resale on ebay...same will probably happen even more often now re DVC rentals

It's Christmas in July for the 'powerseller DVCers" who can walk early & often

 

[Laurabearz]

yet, it will achieve the result, if the member is willing to expend the effort....especially commercial renters who have more to lose, based upon their need to turn a profit by booking the prime-time vacation slots.

i've quit visiting BB on Black Friday. In our area the college kids are in line mid day on Thanksgiving, they buy up the big ticket items for profitable resale on ebay...same will probably happen even more often now re DVC rentals

It's Christmas in July for the 'powerseller DVCers" who can walk early & often

I know this if off topic (I am following you Keishashadow muahaha) But my friend and I say last year on Black Friday, we should stop buying for our kids and start buying for Ebay!!

 

[LisaS]

It depends on availability. For example, I could:

Day-1: Book Dec 1 - 8
Day-2: Book Dec 2 - 9

This essentially gives me control over the 1st through the 9th.

I'm not following this example. On day 1, you book the nights of Dec 1-7, checking out on Dec 8. On day 2, you book Dec 2-8, checking out on Dec 9. So at that point you have two rooms booked.

On the 9th, I can cancel the 1-8 stay, releasing those points, and I have the 9th locked up as well. I can then cancel 2-9, putting the 9th on hold and extending through the 16th ...

This is where you lose me. On the 9th, you cancel Dec 1-7 so you're left with one room for Dec 2-8, checking out on the 9th. You haven't yet booked the night of Dec 9th but you can try to book it on that call. (I assume you didn't just extend this reservation earlier because your points were tied up in the Dec 1-7 reservation?) There is no guarantee that it is available however. Your reservation from Dec 2-8 inclusive does not prevent anyone from booking "your" room for the nights of Dec 9+ if they get through to MS ahead of you. I don't see that this scheme gives you any advantage. Since TisBit's rules wouldn't allow you to cancel any nights of a reservation until your check out date, you would no longer be blocking other members from booking that room so you would be competing with everyone else that day to extend your stay using this approach.

 

[TisBit]

While I realize you are trying to suggest a modest change with modest collateral impacts, I think that your suggestion will only stop the marathon walkers.

It will not stop those with enough points in a single UY to book their entire desired vacation, and who want to book in advance of their banking deadline. Those members will be able to "walk" a reservation by booking 2X the desired number of nights, holding that reservation until the cancellation period expires, then cancelling the unneeded days and banking the unused points.

For my early Dec vacation this year I booked more nights than I thought we wanted to give us flexibility when scheduling air travel. By some members standards, it was probably unethical to do so, but I held those extra nights until May when our airfare was booked, then cancelled. I am using those points for a vacation next May, so had no personal need to put them back into my account until June. We only have 175 points (but book a studio), so if we can hold extra nights for some period of time, I would guess many other members can as well.

And as to the marathon walking for months that some have joked they would try, those willing to engage in this practice would seem to be the smallest group of all. To walk, all you need is for that first night to be available. On another post, several members have posted finding availability as late as July for Saturday nights in December. Thus, even for NYE, there is porbably no need to start walking sooner than Dec.

Yes, you could start walking towards NYE now, but you could also get in line tonight for the Black Friday sale at Best Buy. If you did so, you will be guaranteed first place in line, but sleeping in a parking lot for that many nights will probably not be necessary to achieve ths result. -- Suzanne

You are right...there are people who might and probably do now, book extra days until they get airfare set, etc. I don't think Disney or normal membership has a problem with that (there are always those that will feel its unfair), but the truth is if you have enough points to do it, go for it. This will prevent people that don't have the points from just "walking" a reservation.

As for big point holders, they might have a large balance at times during the year, but if you have 400 points, that means you are going to DVC a LOT during the year and will have points tied up for different vacations. Yes, if they plan it right not book slow times to make sure they have points to do a large reservation, that would give them an advantage, but put them at risk for a different vacation.

I am the first to admit that there is no system that is perfect and every one will have a loophole somewhere, it is trying to keep that loophole as small as possible without too much inconvenience on the majority of owners.

 

[TisBit]

I'm not following this example. On day 1, you book the nights of Dec 1-7, checking out on Dec 8. On day 2, you book Dec 2-8, checking out on Dec 9. So at that point you have two rooms booked.

This is where you lose me. On the 9th, you cancel Dec 1-7 so you're left with one room for Dec 2-8, checking out on the 9th. You haven't yet booked the night of Dec 9th but you can try to book it on that call. (I assume you didn't just extend this reservation earlier because your points were tied up in the Dec 1-7 reservation?) There is no guarantee that it is available however. Your reservation from Dec 2-8 inclusive does not prevent anyone from booking "your" room for the nights of Dec 9+ if they get through to MS ahead of you. I don't see that this scheme gives you any advantage. Since TisBit's rules wouldn't allow you to cancel any nights of a reservation until your check out date, you would no longer be blocking other members from booking that room so you would be competing with everyone else that day to extend your stay using this approach.

Exactly, there would be no advantage to this. If you have enough points to book two weeks, you would be better just adding each day until you got to two weeks and cancel your first week later. Either way you are tying up your points...the only advantage is how many points you have available to book a room for.

Incidently, this could make a lot of people really think about UY's and banking windows. Members might have a difficult time holding points for an extended reservation if they are near their banking windows.