New policy for reservations based on check IN date

[TyRy]

I've been away from the thread for a while, but I am curious what exactly are your concerns about walking? Is that you have to have points to do it? Is it that you have the points, but the amount of calling to DVC that you now have to do to get a reservation? Something else?

Thanks

Hi there, I think my concerns are more what have been echoed here on the boards (but maybe not?) It's that this wasn't really thought out. What's to stop people from always walking and taking up days they really did not want, causing someone else to have to WL for those days. And with the new WL there may be an even greater chance of not getting all what they want simply because someone started to "walk" their reservation 2 months ahead of time. That is probably stretching it, but I could see that happening.

I happen to have only 160 points, but with banking and a little borrowing was planning on 8 nights in a two-bedroom AKV Standard in Jambo during value season next year. Now while it's not a big time of year with the new rules I no longer feel I have an equal shot at my times. What if I suddenly wanted to go during the big times...since others have stated they plan on walking their reservations, when do I need to start walking mine? It now seems like a vicious circle that won't end. If person A starts 2 weeks out, person B will start three weeks out and so on.

Perhaps I'm just taking a look at all the negatives in this and like I said, it probably won't even effect us that much (we like early May and Sept/Oct) BUT I would also hate the possiblity that you would have to cancel and rebook your vacation if you needed to change a day. Too many variables to that when you book 11 months (or even 7) months out. Again, this is why I don't think the whole thing was that well thought out.

At first I liked the idea of a "hold" where for a certain amount of time you could not drop days in the beginning, but after thinking about it I don't even know if that is a good solution as those with tons of points will still start early and then really clog up WL for everyone else.

WOW - that was long winded answer ..but to answer your DBD question, doesn't bug me to have to call DBD. I knew that we could always call at the end of our vacation if we only wanted to make one call. When I called last year for this year on the first day I could just to see what the week looked like, the CM told me to call DBD because AKV did not have many standard (pool view) rooms.

Does that help answer at all?

Ty

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Isn't this the discussion we've had all along and I believe I've adequately made the point that IF one did get shut out it would be by another member who was also just as deserving and that under the old rule there would have been someone else who was shut out if you weren't. Certainly seems fair to me, esp if they're staying a full 7 days compared to shorter.

Actually reservations have been more difficult to reserve the last couple of years in general. The only difference with DBD on the first day is that it depended on well you timed your call, how fast you dialed, how quickly someone picked up the phone and how fast they worked once you were with an agent. And there were more an more people calling that first day for DBD.

OT, your really getting that post count up there aren't ya Dean!

 

[marnietch]

Hi Everyone,
I received a DVC email yesterday where they described this new policy in detail. It sounds great but you can only book a 7 day reservation. You have to call back if you want additional days. Check your email and see if DVC sent you notice of this new policy!

 

[jdg345]

After reading all of this massive thread this is my conclusion too. I think there is an over emphasis on fair because what is fair really depends on your point of view. The old system likely didn't seem all that fair to some who didn't get part of their week long vacation and was forced to switch resorts or perhaps even pay cash for a night.

No one was forced to switch resorts or pay cash. They could opt to stay elsewhere for their LOS. If they wanted it bad enough, they would switch or pay, but it was a choice.

I wonder if policy change, beyond stopping DBD calling, isn't also designed to reduce the call volume when MS first opens. How many time periods are there in the year when MS is swamped for the first couple of hours in the morning and nothing later in the day.

How would this drop call volume? People are still going to need to call DBD, right in the morning. In fact, it's even more important now as you are likely competing for a smaller inventory of rooms on any given day than you would have under the old system. If you started dialing at 8:59am before, you might want to start at 8:58am now.

 

[Ragtime Gal]

I think Disney likes the new policy because it makes people have to buy more points to get what they want. The more points you have, the earlier you can "walk" or even book in general. Why would Disney want to change it? It makes good financial sense for them.

 

[jdg345]

Hi there, I think my concerns are more what have been echoed here on the boards (but maybe not?) It's that this wasn't really thought out. What's to stop people from always walking and taking up days they really did not want, causing someone else to have to WL for those days. And with the new WL there may be an even greater chance of not getting all what they want simply because someone started to "walk" their reservation 2 months ahead of time. That is probably stretching it, but I could see that happening.

Naw ... I'm already working on my reservations for Christmas 2009.

I happen to have only 160 points, but with banking and a little borrowing was planning on 8 nights in a two-bedroom AKV Standard in Jambo during value season next year. Now while it's not a big time of year with the new rules I no longer feel I have an equal shot at my times. What if I suddenly wanted to go during the big times...since others have stated they plan on walking their reservations, when do I need to start walking mine? It now seems like a vicious circle that won't end. If person A starts 2 weeks out, person B will start three weeks out and so on.

Exactly, many are taking the stance that, "Oh well, this doesn't affect me cause I only go during the slow times". Well, that's now. Vacation habits do change over time, and we are talking about 50 years here.

The question of when to start walking is also important. When is early enough, and when is too early? If people start calling weeks or months before, then it's likely not going to reduce call volumes at all. All issues that never existed under the old system.

Perhaps I'm just taking a look at all the negatives in this and like I said, it probably won't even effect us that much (we like early May and Sept/Oct) BUT I would also hate the possiblity that you would have to cancel and rebook your vacation if you needed to change a day. Too many variables to that when you book 11 months (or even 7) months out. Again, this is why I don't think the whole thing was that well thought out.

Agree ... it would seem that this decision was made by those disconnected from the actual system.

At first I liked the idea of a "hold" where for a certain amount of time you could not drop days in the beginning, but after thinking about it I don't even know if that is a good solution as those with tons of points will still start early and then really clog up WL for everyone else.

Again, this becomes an effort in futility. The fact that everyone wants to talk about ways to fix the new system is further proof that it wasn't well thought out and that it cannot stand on its own. The old system required none of these 'tweaks'.

WOW - that was long winded answer ..but to answer your DBD question, doesn't bug me to have to call DBD. I knew that we could always call at the end of our vacation if we only wanted to make one call. When I called last year for this year on the first day I could just to see what the week looked like, the CM told me to call DBD because AKV did not have many standard (pool view) rooms.

Right ... it was a choice. If you really wanted that specialty category, you worked harder for it. You deserve to get it over someone else who doesn't work as hard [imo]. If it wasn't as important to you, you'd book at the end, and if it was available -- great -- and if not, you'd book somewhere else. No harm, no foul.

Does that help answer at all?

Ty

Yup, Thank you for posting!

 

[jdg345]

Hi Everyone,
I received a DVC email yesterday where they described this new policy in detail. It sounds great but you can only book a 7 day reservation. You have to call back if you want additional days. Check your email and see if DVC sent you notice of this new policy!

Strangely, I still have not received much of anything.

 

[jdg345]

I think Disney likes the new policy because it makes people have to buy more points to get what they want. The more points you have, the earlier you can "walk". Why would Disney want to change it? It makes good financial sense for them.

It could also lead to those owners with smaller contracts selling off due their feeling that they no longer have the same fair shot at the days and categories that they want. Having to pick up points and more points at ROFR isn't necessarily good financial sense as you're taking points out of the system.

You have also seen in this thread were some of those considering an add-on at BLT have now decided to wait or not buy at all.

 

[cslittle999]

No one was forced to switch resorts or pay cash. They could opt to stay elsewhere for their LOS. If they wanted it bad enough, they would switch or pay, but it was a choice.

If you couldn't get a room in the middle of your reservation you didn't have much choice.

How would this drop call volume? People are still going to need to call DBD, right in the morning. In fact, it's even more important now as you are likely competing for a smaller inventory of rooms on any given day than you would have under the old system. If you started dialing at 8:59am before, you might want to start at 8:58am now.

DBD seems to be a touch stone. If you call DBD you get your room but that couldn't have been true for everyone. For the people that feel they have to call DBD nothing will change that. These are the same people that will know be trying to walk reservations because they need to keep their touch stone alive. Disney does have to do something about walking reservations. Once walking is gone there is no DBD.

How will the new system drop call volume? Without walking (which Disney didn't anticipate) there are fewer people calling on any given day. The people that do get through book their entire stay and don't call in again.

 

[jdg345]

If you couldn't get a room in the middle of your reservation you didn't have much choice.

Really? There are several choices I see, depending on how badly you wanted to stay there:

1: Waitlist
2: Book elsewhere for LOS
3: Book elsewhere from that day foward
4: Move
5: Try a different room type/view for LOS
6: Try a different room type/view from that day forward

Plenty of choices.

DBD seems to be a touch stone. If you call DBD you get your room but that couldn't have been true for everyone. For the people that feel they have to call DBD nothing will change that. These are the same people that will know be trying to walk reservations because they need to keep their touch stone alive. Disney does have to do something about walking reservations. Once walking is gone there is no DBD.

Why? Most people that called DBD got exactly what they wanted, though there were some reported cases of them being unable. Then they had a choice to make. This is no different than you calling on Day-1 and being shut out -- you still have a choice to make. Likely, you'll either book something else, or WL and start calling DBD -- or both. And if they try to stop DBD, it's likely we'll just find another way around that. How many people are they going to continue to hurt and inconvenience with this new policy? So far, those with smaller contracts and those attempting to arrive mid-week are being singled out here. Let's take away the ability to make changes without making it a cancel/rebook and you've effectively caused some inconvenience to just about everyone who books at 11 months and happens to fly into WDW as most airlines cannot be booked that far in advance.

How will the new system drop call volume? Without walking (which Disney didn't anticipate) there are fewer people calling on any given day. The people that do get through book their entire stay and don't call in again.

Yes, but you're assuming people won't walk, which adds to call volume. The WL policy also adds to call volume as you are better off calling a few times per day to check on any one day if you have a continguous waitlist. Sure, the people that book don't have to call back (unless they want to stay more than 7 days or do a split-stay), but everyone else is going to be calling and checking on Day-2, Day-3, etc. And at the end of the day, if volumes drop it's not like we're going to see a reduction in our dues (12% Rule). So you might have to hold less ... that's fair ... but the way I see it, those that wanted it bad enough were the ones that would be willing to hold 20 minutes or whatever. If they were willing to go through that, and I wasn't, then why shouldn't they be more entitled to the reservation?

Obviously, you had a problem with DBD. Would you be willing to share with us why? Did you not book DBD?

 

[TyRy]

I think Disney likes the new policy because it makes people have to buy more points to get what they want. The more points you have, the earlier you can "walk" or even book in general. Why would Disney want to change it? It makes good financial sense for them.

This could also backfire...we had thought about doing an add on at BWV or BCV, but it would have been a small one to use every couple of years. I'm not liking this new policy and all the unknowns so we will not be doing that now.

 

[jade1]

Actually reservations have been more difficult to reserve the last couple of years in general. The only difference with DBD on the first day is that it depended on well you timed your call, how fast you dialed, how quickly someone picked up the phone and how fast they worked once you were with an agent. And there were more an more people calling that first day for DBD.

How do you figure that? How could it possibly be any different for a BCV or VWL owner today than 3 years ago for example? Its the exact same number of members, the exact same number of rooms, and the exact same number of nights in a year. There is no way you can possibly convince me that these owners are now having a tougher time at 11 months out than ever before. Its exactly the same identical factors now as before. They will now have a much tougher time to link a stay together with the new policy (I say impossible for NYE but we will see), because you cant call and say you want 3 nights at VWL and the following 4 nights at BCV, but to say it was getting worse under the old system is completely false IMO and has always worked the same for me-prefectly fine.

 

[jdg345]

How do you figure that? How could it possibly be any different for a BCV or VWL owner today than 3 years ago for example? Its the exact same number of members, the exact same number of rooms, and the exact same number of nights in a year. There is no way you can possibly convince me that these owners are now having a tougher time at 11 months out than ever before. Its exactly the same identical factors now as before. They will now have a much tougher time to link a stay together with the new policy (I say impossible for NYE but we will see), because you cant call and say you want 3 nights at VWL and the following 4 nights at BCV, but to say it was getting worse under the old system is completely false IMO and has always worked the same for me-prefectly fine.

I agree with you for the 11 month window. That said, imo, Dean has a point with respect to the 7 month window.

 

[jade1]

I agree with you for the 11 month window. That said, imo, Dean has a point with respect to the 7 month window.

Yep, and I have agreed with that as well. But 7 months are not the "owners" calling and to me that is not as important because A) Its not an owner checking B) They likely have a place held already C) All points are morphed together at that point anyway. Dean has claimed it is worse for "owners" at 11 months as well, as if the new policy is justified to some degree which is not at all true IMO.

 

[jdg345]

Yep, and I have agreed with that as well. But 7 months are not the "owners" calling and to me that is not as important because A) Its not an owner checking B) They likely have a place held already C) All points are morphed together at that point anyway. Dean has claimed it is worse for "owners" at 11 months as well, as if the new policy is justified to some degree which is not at all true IMO.

Well then, I think we can agree to agree.

 

[cslittle999]

Really? There are several choices I see, depending on how badly you wanted to stay there:

1: Waitlist
2: Book elsewhere for LOS
3: Book elsewhere from that day foward
4: Move
5: Try a different room type/view for LOS
6: Try a different room type/view from that day forward

Plenty of choices.

Isn't that what I said. That the person would have to break up their reservation or stay where they didn't want to (whether it was points or cash). The new policy favors an all or nothing approach which I think most (but not all) people will like.

Why? Most people that called DBD got exactly what they wanted, though there were some reported cases of them being unable.

If most people got what they wanted calling DBD then most people didn't need to call DBD but they felt like they had too. It's all about perception.

Yes, but you're assuming people won't walk, which adds to call volume.

I'm assuming the Disney will do something about walking because it was something they didn't anticipate. Beyond the lack of communication, Disney main fault was in not having someone do an analysis of how you can game the system. When they next change the rules you can be sure they will.

And at the end of the day, if volumes drop it's not like we're going to see a reduction in our dues (12% Rule).

But it might avoid an increase in dues. MS can't continue to expand DVC and leave the call center unreachable many morning. A drop in call volume could delay a staff increase.

Obviously, you had a problem with DBD. Would you be willing to share with us why? Did you not book DBD?

I don't have a problem with DBD. I think that many people use DBD when they don't need to. When I have used DBD, MS has said that I didn't have to. I personally would prefer to make a single call to book my reservation. I will admit that I have not booked at Christmas. I do tend to stay longer than 7 days but I will likely wait until the middle and book the whole thing at once.

Really all said was that fair really depends on your point of view.

 

[jdg345]

Isn't that what I said. That the person would have to break up their reservation or stay where they didn't want to (whether it was points or cash). The new policy favors an all or nothing approach which I think most (but not all) people will like.

Nope, you said they'd be forced to move. Granted, now you agree that they could stay somewhere else (not necessarily their first choice). The same goes with the new policy, doesn't it? You call Day-1, it's available, you get it. You call Day-1, it's not, you book somewhere else where you don't want to stay. So how is it better? It sounds the same, except for the fact that with the new policy, when you call in at 9am, there's a chance that there are already zero rooms available. You were locked out before you had a chance.

If most people got what they wanted calling DBD then most people didn't need to call DBD but they felt like they had too. It's all about perception.

That's a pretty major assumption, imo. While I agree that there are cases of calling DBD when it wasn't necessary, we don't know that because people were successful with DBD there is a direct relationship to whether or not it was necessary. Regardless, if they wanted to call DBD, so what? They wanted to give themselves the best chance at their reservation for LOS. They went through the extra effort, and deserve it more than someone else who didn't [imo].

I'm assuming the Disney will do something about walking because it was something they didn't anticipate. Beyond the lack of communication, Disney main fault was in not having someone do an analysis of how you can game the system. When they next change the rules you can be sure they will.

I don't think Disney anticipated many of the issues with the new system. Does that mean they're going to continue to tweak it, or go back to the way it was? We don't know as there have been cases on both sides.

But it might avoid an increase in dues. MS can't continue to expand DVC and leave the call center unreachable many morning. A drop in call volume could delay a staff increase.

It might, and it might not. In this case, it's likely just improving their bottom line, not necessarily ours. If they really want to drop call volumes, perhaps they should implement online booking instead of taking away member flexibility?

I don't have a problem with DBD. I think that many people use DBD when they don't need to. When I have used DBD, MS has said that I didn't have to. I personally would prefer to make a single call to book my reservation. I will admit that I have not booked at Christmas. I do tend to stay longer than 7 days but I will likely wait until the middle and book the whole thing at once.

Then you still could have made a single call, based on your check-out date. Something tells me, however, that if you had done that during that same timeframe and were boxed out, that same CM would probably have told you that you should have booked DBD.

I hope those longer stays work out for you, and they probably will in slower times.

Really all said was that fair really depends on your point of view.

And it depends on what we're talking about. I'm referring specifically to the system. The way the system sits today, it is less fair than it was before. With the old system, you had a chance at your reservation. That chance was guaranteed. With the new system, you could be boxed out way before you even have a chance.

We're still in a period where a lot of people don't know about this, and it's a slow season, so many are reporting successes as they don't have a lot of pre-booking affecting them. That said, we've also already had at least one report of someone being negatively affected by the system -- and this is during a slow season with not many people knowing about the change. Imagine what it's going to be like when word gets out and people start trying to book Christmas and NYE. Those attempting to stay NYE are going to have quite the tough time as those that wanted to stay Christmas immediately have an advantage over them. Is that 'fair'? I guess it depends on whether or not they're booking Christmas and want NYE too, or if they just want NYE.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

How do you figure that? How could it possibly be any different for a BCV or VWL owner today than 3 years ago for example? Its the exact same number of members, the exact same number of rooms, and the exact same number of nights in a year. There is no way you can possibly convince me that these owners are now having a tougher time at 11 months out than ever before. Its exactly the same identical factors now as before. They will now have a much tougher time to link a stay together with the new policy (I say impossible for NYE but we will see), because you cant call and say you want 3 nights at VWL and the following 4 nights at BCV, but to say it was getting worse under the old system is completely false IMO and has always worked the same for me-prefectly fine.

Actually, I think there has been a change at 11 months as more owners "buy where they want to stay" instead of whatever DVC happens to be selling at the time.

We bought from DVC in 2005 at BWV, but our guide was pushing us to buy at SSR, which was actually fewer $$ per point. We have never stayed anywhere but BWV and, except for 1 night (4 month WL never came through), never anything other than a BW view or SV.

So while the number of members competing is the same, there are probably more members who care deeply about staying at their home resort.

Also as 7 month reservations are perceived as being harder to count on, more members book at 11 months to insure they have a room at WDW before they play the 7 month lottery. -- Suzanne

 

[jade1]

Actually, I think there has been a change at 11 months as more owners "buy where they want to stay" instead of whatever DVC happens to be selling at the time.

We bought from DVC in 2005 at BWV, but our guide was pushing us to buy at SSR, which was actually fewer $$ per point. We have never stayed anywhere but BWV and, except for 1 night (4 month WL never came through), never anything other than a BW view or SV.

So while the number of members competing is the same, there are probably more members who care deeply about staying at their home resort.

Also as 7 month reservations are perceived as being harder to count on, more members book at 11 months to insure they have a room at WDW before they play the 7 month lottery. -- Suzanne

Agreed, but its still the same number of owners spread over an entire year of bookings. There is no way every member started booking all times of the year 11 months DBD, 7 to 11 months I can believe. Personally we have never had a problem DBD at BCV or VWL and thats at premier times.

As you even admit-the old system has never not worked for you (except once at 4 months), and never even had to used "preferred". So how is it getting harder?

 

[maminnie]

Yep, and I have agreed with that as well. But 7 months are not the "owners" calling and to me that is not as important because A) Its not an owner checking B) They likely have a place held already C) All points are morphed together at that point anyway. Dean has claimed it is worse for "owners" at 11 months as well, as if the new policy is justified to some degree which is not at all true IMO.

jade 1:

I believe you and I agree that owners of multiple contracts/resorts at the 11 month window could face difficulties getting the second half of their stay. But IMHO, all members deserve to be on equal footing at both the 11 month AND the 7 month window. No one member should have an advantage over another member simply by the day they check-in at EITHER booking window or by how many points they have so they can now "walk" away and have the points to do so.

The DBD system, although not perfect, did give all equal footing. Members should not have to now change their desired check in dates to try and beat out members or buy more points so they can "walk" a reservation or have enough to now book at one resort (versus two with two contracts) at the 11 month window for their whole stay as that is not the flexible "do it your way" reservation system which DVC so freely and aggressively sold and many of us bought.

With that said everyone have a great afternoon.

maminnie