New Point Tables

[Disney Adventurer]

Doc, our mind is made up, already offered and accepted and should be closing on the BWV in less than a week. Although a little disappointing and upsetting, the increase in "DC" points would not have changed our minds. We bought DVC to say at our home resort with an occasional try at other DVC resorts, it is still very well worth it when you look at it those terms, the option of using points for the "DC" was great, but not a deciding factor. The reasom I'm very curious is that our resale has some points in reservation status and we'll have to use them at something non DVC.

 

[PamOKW]

Disney Adventurer -- The points for offsite places like The Plaza, Charleston Place etc., are not that drastically different. There are more categories and different season dates for the WDW deluxe resorts almost all with substantial increases over last year's charts. Fri-Sat nights are particularly steep. If you have something in mind, I could try to give you a rough idea on point costs.

 

[DVCDAVE]

Mister Hysteria here.....Well, the facts are finally here, and I had a chance to look over the DC point chart.

First, the good news is for my family. Our favorite DC resort are the Home Away From Home Cabins in FW (almost the equal of a VWL 1 BR). Surprisingly, went DOWN for our travel season, which is Magic Season ! Needless to say, we are breathing a sigh of relief.

Second, it apprears that the Monorail resorts were targeted for the increases, and WOW !!!! in many cases the increases are more than the rumored 37%.

Third, I ignored the Yacht & BC as I believe they soon will be removed from the DC list when BCV's open next year.

I feel for those members who were looking forward to a visit to the GF and POL, during school spring vacations. The points look to be outrageous to say the least.

 

[JonHM]

At least *something* good came out of this...

 

[DVCDAVE]

JONHM,

I'd give it back if I could, to get the old DC point schedule. I still view it (the old schedule) as less restrictive to DVC-DC exchanges.

The next thing we should be asking Disney. is who is paying for these new Member Guidebooks, and why is it necessary to spend more than $1MM on something that no one complained about, AND can the money be spent somewhere else more affectively. How about a lottery of $1MM worth of Length of Stay passes for DVC members with ressies ? All those members in need of New Guide books, can buy their own.

Sorry if I am getting off topic..

 

[normr]

Some thought we were getting a little too excited about the point cost increases, but now and thanks to Pam's analysis, I saw VERY little that went down, most everything went up and in one case 104%, look as we all know DC isn't a good use of points, but the safety valve it provided was there, now it looks like they've made it such a poor choice in most cases that I doubt it will be used except in the most dire cases. (unable to get reservations and will take it just not to lose points)

 

[DVCDAVE]

NORMR;

My feelings exactly ! It almost seems as if they view us in the same catagory as a 'moderate' resort by the way they priced them in terms of points.

 

[sgtpet]

The speculation was not as bad as the reality is. Too bad. Like I had stated previously, this is the beginning. Chart the last decade and see the trend. Not many positives except for the new resorts and the fine owners of DVC.

 

[DVCDAVE]

I guess it depends on the member, their favorite vacation week and DC resort, if it is worst, or better.

 

[Joeblack]

Geez:

The points to use the DC are outrageous. I really hope I never see myself forced to use them for any of the DC resorts. I love DVC but sometimes I feel as if Disney thinks "DVCers are already hooked...why bother giving them any privilege?.... I wish they saw us as we really are. Disney's biggest fans and people who, on average will spend a lot more on Disney property as sporadic visitors. It's sad to see this trend. DVC is STILL a good value for loyal customers like us, but in my book, loyal customers are given more options and privileges and rewarded on their loyalty.

I really hope the DC charts are reviewed downwards in the future. I understand the fact that DVC must negotiate with each resort every year, but I find it hard to believe that DVC has such a poor leverage as to take such a ridiculous increase while the resorts are seeing a big plunge in their occupancy levels.

 

[morphi]

I am in the process of closing on a DVC resale, so I was disturbed to hear about the DC point inflation. I think that the DC and other Member Getaway options are an important relief valve for DVC demand. If that relief valve is outrageously priced, it cannot function correctly and it will be ever more difficult to get a DVC reservation at the DVC resorts.

DVCDAVE, I'm with you about using the Fort Wilderness Cabins. We like to stay there during the off-season and would like to use that option every once in a while using DVC points. Can you send me the dates for each season and the points required for staying one week for those seasons. (I have not closed on my resale yet, so I do no have access to the charts on the website.) Thanks for your help.

I've read all the discussions on these boards about the 2002 DC point increases. I've heard many people say that the increases don't bother them because they do not use the DC program and the program was never intended to be a great deal anyway.

However, EVERY DVC MEMBER USES (e.g., benefits from) THE DC PROGRAM. Everytime a DVC member books a DC room, that increases the chances of non-DC-using DVC members will be able to get the DVC rooms they want, when they want them. So even if you never use DC, you still benefit from it by being able to get what you want from DVC resorts more frequently. If DC is killed-off with high prices, it will hurt all DVC members.

I also think that if there are no rooms available for use outside of the DVC resorts, then it is practically guaranteed that SOME DVC members will not be able to use their points each year. This is because Disney sold all of the points possible to use in a year. (Excluding the 2-4% they withheld for room renovations, etc.) So for any given room, they sold 365 days' worth of points. But when people start making reservations, they are not booked back-to-back. Instead, there are gaps between reservations. These gaps guarantee that not all DVC members will be able to use their points on DVC rooms. It is imperative that non-DVC rooms be part of the program as a safety net for those members.

 

[PamOKW]

The Wilderness Lodge Homes are mostly a decrease in points.

Maybe I'm missing something but why would you want to trade one Home Away from Home for another? For roughly the same amount of points you can stay in a one-bedroom at WLV (or BWV or OKW).

 

[DVCDAVE]

In my case PAMOKW, we took the Cabin in FW when we tried to get BWV in March, and some of the days were booked up. We waitlisted until 30 days before our arrival, but nothing came through. We took the cabin for those days that we couldn't get at BWV. We preferred them over OKW as that is what our kids wanted. We had stayed in them several prior times, and we enjoy the atmosphere, campfire, Trails End Buffet, Hoop-Dee-Doo, River Country, over anything that OKW offerred.

Again, as I have said many times recently, the DC offers a safety net for many of us that can't get a booking in our home resort. As much as I like my DVC, I am not a DVC die-hard where I feel I HAVE to stay in a DVC resort or else. My families FAVORITE resort has been FW. We throughly enjoyed BWV in March, and we will stay again this Thanksgiving. But, my kids do enjoy scooting in a golf cart over to the campfire, renting a water mouse at the FW marina...(by the way, renting water mice at FW beats the BW anyday !!! as there is a lot more water at FW then BW).

Variety is the spice of life.

 

[morphi]

We like the Fort Wilderness cabins for many of the reasons that DVCDAVE indicated:

- Boat access to Magic Kingdom
- We don't share walls with our neighbors
- We park right outside our door
- We can rent golf cart to zip around the resort
- Our young children sleep in the same room with us
- Nightly campfire, sing-along, and outdoor movies
- Petting zoo
- Pony rides
- Nightly water pageant on Bay Lake
- Water Mice at marina
- Large, white-sand beach
- Surrey bike rentals
- Trail's End restaurant
- Peaceful environment
- Walk to Wilderness Lodge
- Canoe in secluded canals

We have young children so all of these options may not seem like big deals to everyone else.

Also, it's not that we would necessarily choose FW Cabins over DVC villas everytime. I don't plan on doing that. But it's nice to have the option. It's also great to know that if we cannot get a reservation at the DVC resort, that our fall-back DC resort is one that we really like.

By the way, for the time of year that we visit WDW, the point price for the cabins went up 17% for 2002!

 

[beattyfamily]

After reading this thread and I went and took a look.

At first glance, I liked the idea of the 3 different categories at each hotel and that they added the Animal Kingdom etc...but once I saw the point increases, I almost had a heartattack!!!

We like the flexibility of staying at a DVC resort or another or the cruise and are shocked at the 40% increase!

We are staying at the GF this year on points; 104 for 4 nights. Those same 4 nights will be 140 next year!

Although someone pointed out that there were a "few" decreases, there are MANY larger increases. It's no longer an option (unless for some reason you have to) to stay at those resorts when you can get such great cash rates ($199 for the GF).

Our family is very upset about this!

 

[PamOKW]

Morphi and DVCDave -- Thanks for the reply. I figured part of the interest is the emotional pull of past trips and the fun you've had there. I know I always have a soft spot for CBR (just wouldn't use my points to stay there).

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by morphi
However, EVERY DVC MEMBER USES (e.g., benefits from) THE DC PROGRAM. Everytime a DVC member books a DC room, that increases the chances of non-DC-using DVC members will be able to get the DVC rooms they want, when they want them. So even if you never use DC, you still benefit from it by being able to get what you want from DVC resorts more frequently. If DC is killed-off with high prices, it will hurt all DVC members.

Not accurate. The points given up from DC, DCL, etc are used for cash rentals and not for points usage. That means that those points and the rooms they represent are gone regardless. There isn't even a member discount for them in most cases.

 

[DVCDAVE]

PAMOKW; You are right, part of the decision to return via a DC exchange is past emotional experiences. However, IMHO that common factor is present in almost every DVC member, ie: past emtional experiences. That is probably the single common demonator that all of us DVC members share. Weather you personally spend your points on CBR is a personal decision, I however chose to spend some on my families favorite resort. There is no right or wrong on this matter, it is a personal decision as I am sure you recognize. In my eyes though, Disney is threatening this exchange program.

 

[morphi]

I THINK that I understand Dean's point. When a DVC member books a DC room, the DVC villa room he theoratically would have reserved is rented to the public for cash. So his usage of the DC program does not leave more DVC rooms available for other DVC members to have their pick from. So that DVC villa is taken either by the DVC member or by the general public.

However, I do not think it is that simple. With the availability of affordable DC rooms, there is less pressure for DVC guests to book 11 months in advance. If they wait for several months and cannot get a DVC room, they can at least use a DC room. Also, once the DC room is booked and the DVC villa is released for cash rental to the general public, the room remains unreserved for awhile. I don't think that most of the general public makes reservations as far in advance as DVC members. All of this conspires to make it easier for DVC members to book DVC rooms say 3-6 months out than it would be without a viable DC program. This is better for all DVC members; even those who only stay at DVC resorts.

Without the DC program, DVC members will always book at the 11 month window for their home resort. They would do this just to insure they can use their points. All of the rooms become 100% booked 11 months out. Then the position is basically intractable because everyone is waiting for someone else to blink first by cancelling the reservation they made 11 months out in exchange for staying at a non-home DVC resort. But if the resorts are always booked 11 months out, no one will be able to blink first because they will have nowhere to go.

 

[vernon]

I agree with Mophi both in the need for a net and how points going into the "system" won't use up points as quickly as owners booking DVC resorts. Because of the way DVC resorts work it only needs ONE of the resorts to become fully booked 11 months in advance and for this to become well known and ANYONE thinking of going at the same time at the other resorts is going to book up first and cancel later if their plans change.

I think this is an issue that needs to be raised at the next AGM , as to why there has been a dramatic increase, is there ANY possibility it will be repeated, why isn't DVC's managing body doing a better job negotiating on our behalf, does the board feel that an "adiquate safety net" at WDW is needed for DVC to run smoothly, does DC fit that criteria in it's current form and following Dean's suggestion, when will there be a member on the board whose main job is to reflect members views and try to protect the memberships interests as opposed to Disney's ( which seems to be the priority of the current board)
The above is VERY MUCH JM(OWN )HO.

Beware of falling rocks ( or we can stick our head in the sand and pretend this is going to go away)