New Monorail thoughts

[Tonka's Skipper]

Not a flame, a good dream BUT if Disney decides to charge for parking it will be to pay the 85 million + cost of building the garage. To pay for the cost of running the garage. Revenue exceeds that. Right to the bottom line.



The chances of the Mets winning is is 75 to 1. I'd almost go far as to say transportation as a reliable and inexpensive way of moving guests will be developed long before a monorail extension would be considered.

Disney is on "swamp" land. The cost to put the support beams is high. The numbers improve if you build light rail, only elevating sections as necessary to avoid grade crossings.

Agreed, however my point was that the costs of Monorials and the new technos have made them a lot more cost effective then even a few years ago.

Rail works when you need to move a lot of people from one point to another point. Rail from DTD would make a lot of sense if Disney decided to build larger garages, charge for all day parking and make DTD as a second TTC. Get those offsite guests walking through DTD on their way back to their cars.

Agreed

Do you really see this happening? or You'd like to see such a system. I predict Disney will be skipping intermediate steps and will go right to teleportation.

Yes, buses are at their limit...........a new light rail/pod system would be a great draw for people, just as the monorail was years ago in 1971

Time has told. Disney never extended the monorail to the WL. Disney decided to go with boats instead of rail when they were designing the EPCOT resorts.

They also have been building resort's left and right and now have more of a need for new, state of the art transportation.

I think it's more likely Disney will discontinue monorail service to EPCOT (although unlikely) then Disney expanding the monorail.

agree, a definite possibility

AKK

 

[ParrotBill]

I would love to see WDW build a few light rail connectors with transportation hubs so you could reduce the amount of bus-miles needed.

For example: Build a light rail from the MK and TTC to a mini TTC on the land across from Coronado Springs with a walking entrance to Studios and Blizzard Beach. Buses can enter from World Drive or Buena Vista Drive.

Send all buses from southern resorts that go to MK or Studios here instead. The light rail could operate much more frequently and cheaply and be automated like Orlando Airport.

AND you could operate a bus from these resorts to the miniTTC until midnight so you could travel to other resorts for dinner more easily!

 

[Lewisc]

I'm not sure why people say the buses are at their limit. Isn't Disney experimenting with articulated buses?

I'll give you a huge issue with light rail. The numbers will make more sense from POP/AoA then from the deluxe resorts. You have a lot of guests which can be serviced from one station. Maybe All Stars. Could Disney even consider a new transportation system which uses the existing bus/boat/monorail routes for deluxe resorts while building rail for the value resorts?

A second issue is the distance to the rail station. Many (most) of us wouldn't mind a bit of a walk to the nearest rail station but that wouldn't work for all guests. What have you accomplished if you have to bus guests to the nearest mini-transportation hub? The advantage of buses is guests get on the bus and don't get off until they're at their final destination.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I'm not sure why people say the buses are at their limit. Isn't Disney experimenting with articulated buses?

I'll give you a huge issue with light rail. The numbers will make more sense from POP/AoA then from the deluxe resorts. You have a lot of guests which can be serviced from one station. Maybe All Stars. Could Disney even consider a new transportation system which uses the existing bus/boat/monorail routes for deluxe resorts while building rail for the value resorts?

A second issue is the distance to the rail station. Many (most) of us wouldn't mind a bit of a walk to the nearest rail station but that wouldn't work for all guests. What have you accomplished if you have to bus guests to the nearest mini-transportation hub? The advantage of buses is guests get on the bus and don't get off until they're at their final destination.

The pods work like the bus you get on at 1 station and they go to your destination. The track or roadways/channels are set up with by passes.

AKK

 

[Lewisc]

The pods work like the bus you get on at 1 station and they go to your destination. The track or roadways/channels are set up with by passes.

AKK

Which takes more space, a bus with 50 guests or 25 pods with two guests in each? Pod system would never work at park opening and park closing.

Teleportation would work much better. Existing elevators will be modified. The cars will no longer go up and down. You'll enter the car, and stand on a circle. Your RID band will be read and you will be automatically transported to the destination as determined by your pre-determined itinerary.

 

[sachilles]

I think you are more likely(of all the unlikely scenarios) to see dedicated roadways/lanes for the current bus fleet.
Less costly to construct. More versatile. Easier to do accomplish in phases. Easier to tear up in the case of re-purposing of real estate.

Transportation is a give and take sort of thing. Decreasing bus lines does nothing if you encounter lines and bottle necks elsewhere further along.

Make the transportation an "experience" or an "attraction" and folks are less likely to care about the wait. For as much time and effort they put into the lines at the attractions, it blows my mind that the transportation is such a bland prospect. The saving grace for the monorail is that it is an "experience" for many. The boats are an "experience" too. Everybody and their mother is familiar with buses(they are super practical everywhere after all).

No doubt you could black out the bus windows, install electronics and make them a some sort of dark motion ride for cheaper than a monorail.

 

[mm1971]

Do any of you think that with the two new parking garages,the bridge from SSR to DTD, AND taking out the last bus stop, that they may be making room for the monorail to run from TTC to DTD at long last. There was an easement on SSR property to extend the monorail. I bet if they charge to park in the garage they could pay for the monorail inno time!!!:


Ok, flame away!!!!h

No flames. While I encourage extended the monorail to just about anywhere, the cost is way too high for them to even consider. Hopefully at some point there will be a monorail system that can be built for a reasonable price. I still find it amazing that technology is going so fast, but no one has found a more efficient way to build a new "highway in the sky". We can dream though.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Which takes more space, a bus with 50 guests or 25 pods with two guests in each? Pod system would never work at park opening and park closing.


I never thought of it as the only transportation.....the pods would hold varying number of people. This would be one more choice of transport

Teleportation would work much better. Existing elevators will be modified. The cars will no longer go up and down. You'll enter the car, and stand on a circle. Your RID band will be read and you will be automatically transported to the destination as determined by your pre-determined itinerary.

You sir are totally correct........teleportation is the way to go!......I can't wait to say *beam me up Scotty*........LOL.....that is great.....touché my friend!

 

[manning]

...he's not interested in giving one cent that won't make money down the road.

Sadly, this kind of thinking is what brings successful companies down. This is what is happening to Disney now. Publicly traded companies think short term. Privately owned think long term. They don't have to worry about the stockholders as there are none. The monies going to investors can be reinvested back into the company.

 

[manning]

I'm not sure why people say the buses are at their limit. Isn't Disney experimenting with articulated buses?

I'll give you a huge issue with light rail. The numbers will make more sense from POP/AoA then from the deluxe resorts. You have a lot of guests which can be serviced from one station. Maybe All Stars. Could Disney even consider a new transportation system which uses the existing bus/boat/monorail routes for deluxe resorts while building rail for the value resorts?

A second issue is the distance to the rail station. Many (most) of us wouldn't mind a bit of a walk to the nearest rail station but that wouldn't work for all guests. What have you accomplished if you have to bus guests to the nearest mini-transportation hub? The advantage of buses is guests get on the bus and don't get off until they're at their final destination.

The pod system, like the one used at Heathrow airport, would depart a station, merge into the traffic pattern. The flexibility is the pods can branch off to different destinations on the fly. When the pod reaches its destination it leaves the traffic pattern and pulls into the station.

The other advantage. The pods don't need drivers. every bus needs one. Disney has something over 300 buses. If all are in operation at the same time that's 300 drivers you are paying wages and benefits to.

This is how it works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qm_izlhOzE

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The pod system, like the one used at Heathrow airport, would depart a station, merge into the traffic pattern. The flexibility is the pods can branch off to different destinations on the fly. When the pod reaches its destination it leaves the traffic pattern and pulls into the station.

The other advantage. The pods don't need drivers. every bus needs one. Disney has something over 300 buses. If all are in operation at the same time that's 300 drivers you are paying wages and benefits to.

This is how it works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qm_izlhOzE

Thanks Manning, you explained it much better then I did!

AKK

 

[eadavis]

Someone may need to fact check this, but hey, it is the rumor board:

It will be tough to modify the monorail station at the TTC. It was built before the ADA kicked in and was thus grandfathered in not having to make accommodations. The ramps up/down are too steep and any changes made beyond regular maintenance will require an entire re-build to be in-line with ADA regulations.

And if that isn't true. Think what will be affected having a monorail line shut down for a week or month - extra strain on boats/ferries/buses. The cost just isn't worth it.

 

[Lewisc]

Thanks Manning, you explained it much better then I did!

AKK

The 21 pods have a top speed of 25 MPH.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The 21 pods have a top speed of 25 MPH.

But Lewisc..........what's your point?..........say a trip is 6 miles, the actual longest........that's 15 minute..........a more likely trip is say 3 miles........that's 7 or 8 minutes!

Were not looking for a Nascar race with the pods.!

AKK

 

[Lewisc]

But Lewisc..........what's your point?..........say a trip is 6 miles, the actual longest........that's 15 minute..........a more likely trip is say 3 miles........that's 7 or 8 minutes!

Were not looking for a Nascar race with the pods.!

AKK

Pods won't be able to handle the number guests going from resorts to parks, particularity at park opening and closing. Average trip is 10 minutes, pod hold 4 guest gives you a maximum capacity of 24 guests per hour. A lot of capital for a system which, at best, supplements the existing system.

You want a pod system for internal transportation in a resort like SSR? Assess DVC owners to pay for it. How many DVC owners would like to pay for pods vs just walking?

The reason Disney went with buses is because it works. Bus breaks down other buses can just drive around it.

PP had an idea. Disney could make the buses more "magical" if they used video screens instead of windows. What Universal is rumored to be doing with the HP train. A board telling us how many minutes before the next bus would be an improvement.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Pods won't be able to handle the number guests going from resorts to parks, particularity at park opening and closing. Average trip is 10 minutes, pod hold 4 guest gives you a maximum capacity of 24 guests per hour. A lot of capital for a system which, at best, supplements the existing system.

You want a pod system for internal transportation in a resort like SSR? Assess DVC owners to pay for it. How many DVC owners would like to pay for pods vs just walking?

The reason Disney went with buses is because it works. Bus breaks down other buses can just drive around it.

PP had an idea. Disney could make the buses more "magical" if they used video screens instead of windows. What Universal is rumored to be doing with the HP train. A board telling us how many minutes before the next bus would be an improvement.

I don't think you understand some of the system...pods have tested up to 12 people and why only 6 trip per hour???....you can easily send more then 1 pod at a time, as many as spacing along the track permits....so capacity is way above your 24 per hour.....thousands on a big enough system within WDW.


This was indeed as you mentioned meant to supplement the other modes of transportation, not replace any.

There would always be some buses, especially as you pointed out around opening and closing. The pods would be very effective to and from resorts, WDW, water parks and parks off perk or during perks with other systems working as well.


AKK

 

[manning]

I don't think you understand some of the system...pods have tested up to 12 people and why only 6 trip per hour???....you can easily send more then 1 pod at a time, as many as spacing along the track permits....so capacity is way above your 24 per hour.....thousands on a big enough system within WDW.


This was indeed as you mentioned meant to supplement the other modes of transportation, not replace any.

There would always be some buses, especially as you pointed out around opening and closing. The pods would be very effective to and from resorts, WDW, water parks and parks off perk or during perks with other systems working as well.


AKK

Pods can be built in different sizes. Because Heathrow is 4 per car doesn't mean that is the only size they can be built.

Because they are computerized they can be spaced closer together.

Buses can be reserved for peak times IE park closing. That cuts way down on overhead, IE wages and benefits.

There are many times throughout the day where only my party was on the bus. And while waiting have seen the same on other buses.

One bonus for us would be a vast majority of time a pod in the station waiting. That alone would make up for the 25 MPH speed. I waited for buses more than 20 minutes at times.

If a pod goes out of service it can easily be moved aside. No need to shut down the system and strand hundreds of people on a monorail. The pod behind could push the pod to a siding out of the traffic pattern to be picked up later by a maintenance pod. The other advantage is, unlike the monorail, a large capacity is not taken out of service. With the monorail a whole unit of cars are taken out when there could be a problem with one car.

 

[sachilles]

With any transportation solution, the biggest obstacle is the wait for the transportation device. Any speed to the venue is generally tolerated. It's the waiting to get on the transportation that irritates people.

Lets say you have 60 people waiting to go to the park. You present two options. 1 bus that can do a round trip in 60 minutes that can carry 60 people, or 1 bus that can carry 30 people but make two round trips in an hour.

If you are person 31-60, you don't care which solution is presented, but 1-30 certainly would care. Nothing worse than seeing a bus come, fill up and leave with out you.

So in order to make everyone happy, you need frequency, and excess capacity, which means you almost always have wasted seats. Wasted seats make accountants grumpy, but guest service folks happy.

To combat this, you have to make the wait tolerable or even enjoyable. The most important thing you can do is to have transportation leave when scheduled. You can say a bus leaves the stop every 30 minutes. As long as there is a 30 minute interval, you've delivered on your promise. Yet the better costumer serving promise is that the bus leaves at 9:30, 10:00, 10:30, 11:00 and so on. So you know not to arrive at the bus stop at 10:35. That is far harder to do, without building in slack in the bus route. It actually makes the bus route less efficient.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Pods can be built in different sizes. Because Heathrow is 4 per car doesn't mean that is the only size they can be built.

Because they are computerized they can be spaced closer together.

Buses can be reserved for peak times IE park closing. That cuts way down on overhead, IE wages and benefits.

There are many times throughout the day where only my party was on the bus. And while waiting have seen the same on other buses.

One bonus for us would be a vast majority of time a pod in the station waiting. That alone would make up for the 25 MPH speed. I waited for buses more than 20 minutes at times.

If a pod goes out of service it can easily be moved aside. No need to shut down the system and strand hundreds of people on a monorail. The pod behind could push the pod to a siding out of the traffic pattern to be picked up later by a maintenance pod. The other advantage is, unlike the monorail, a large capacity is not taken out of service. With the monorail a whole unit of cars are taken out when there could be a problem with one car.

Thanks Manning, you said it much better then I did.

One of the many wonders of WDW is its transportation system, especially the different type, monorail, boats, cars and buses. The pods would be a state of the art addition.

AKK

 

[Bob NC]

The pods would be a state of the art addition.

AKK

Darn, now we can forget about the pods.