New MGM Ride in the Works?

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. Kidds! How long have you been here? You signed up at night, but it wasn't last night, was it? (rim shot)

Simply BECAUSE of the fact that they have lost so many attractions. Disney should be coming up with additions, and not just replacements.

EVERYONE who hangs around here for even a day or two should know that what Disney SHOULD do and what they DO do are not just worlds, but are universes apart!!

 

[crusader]

The DIS for anyone who has a connection to the place - past present or future.

Those of you in cars can switch seats all you want but ultimately you're more likely to all wind up at the same destination than not so why torment yourselves over who rode with whom?

This mood probably has little to do with the topic of this thread, pixie dust or smilies which cannot possibly be even remotely influential in dissuading a "regular" from engaging in any debate on these forums.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

p.s. So silent upon your return? "WDW is Evil" rehab taking longer than usual?

No. Quite the contrary (if I read your post right). For the very first time in 30 years there just wasn’t enough pixie dust to make me forget that WDW is merely a shell of what was once a GREAT vacation destination. So…

… no glowing reports, no blinders, no rose-colored, no (or at least very little) MAGIC, no....

… How sad!

Also for the very first time car #4 is looking like a sleek corvette compared with car #3 which is feeling more and more like the family station wagon with wood paneling!!

Again, How sad!

 

[Peter Pirate]

It may be sad. But it's also predictable. You beat the same drum over and over. See Eisner as the antichrist and give no (little) credit to anything done in the past 20 years and you're bound to start beliving your clippings.

What's really sad is the Landbaron I first met still saw things as they were instead of why they are. This constant negativity is the downside of this discussion group and why I ALWAYS make sure I have the 'rosie's' on when coming around.

Mr. Kidds, this is the future you were contemplating!

As for me, I just spoke to gcurling who's pulling into WDW about now. Tomorrow night at this tme I'll be doing the same and I won't look for anything...I'll just let it be...

 

[crusader]

It is bound to happen when you approach this vacation with a level of expectation beyond the reality of the trip. It is the idealist who looks to feel magic and pixie dust from something rather than themselves, knowing full well they aren't real. Disneyworld is what it is - a place loaded with options and people to hang out with on vacation. How you feel, how you respond to unpredicated events which occurred and how you choose to spend your time is entirely controlled by you.

 

[mitros]

I have only been with these boards for a short time, so I don't know how long people have been bashing eisner, although I don't beleive these boards have been around that long. {20years} My point is that eisner did a lot for the company......... in the begining, back in the mid 80's when he started with disney, and saved the organization from being bought out and broken apart. Eisner was the saviour of the Walt Disney company, probably right up through the early 90's. But he evidently got a big head and thought he was God's gift to the corporation while he was really raking it over the coals. Maybe that is the point that a lot of people on these boards are trying to make, perhaps?

 

[raidermatt]

Senor Pirate, I'm only speaking for myself, but really, I wouldn't give a rat's patoot why things are as they are, were it not for the fact that troubling things are happening.

Is it enough to make me not go to WDW? No. Will it ever be? I don't know. If things continue to deteriorate, maybe.

I can let things be with the best of them, and really, when I'm at WDW, I do (in fact, that's a big reason why my other favorite destination is Hawaii...its might be the best place in the world for just relaxing and letting things be). But to pick just one example, when I make a purchase and want it sent to my room, but instead it now goes to another store at my hotel, should I lie and say I don't care? I don't let it get to me then, because there's no point to it, but when it comes time to state an objective opinion, I'm going to say it stinks. Its a small point, sure.

Is my expectation unrealistic? It wasn't 2 years ago.

So as these changes mount, maybe I will at some point decide to vacation somewhere else. Maybe I won't. But if I do, it won't be the result of some self-fulfilling prophecy theory...it'll simply be because WDW no longer offers my family a better option than an alternate location. I really don't see any reason to suspect the Baron reached his current position any differently.

Negativity when providing analysis is not bad in and of itself. The truth is what it is, and if developments are providing a negative direction over a positive one, what point is there in ignoring that when we are trying to have honest discussions?

That doesn't mean we have to agree, of course, but to me, it seems unfair to discount someone else's version of reality because doesn't jive with one's own version.

How you feel, how you respond to unpredicated events which occurred and how you choose to spend your time is entirely controlled by you.

Of course it is. Baron has simply stated he will likely be allocating his vacation time differently in the future.

Yes, how we respond is completely up to us. But what logical person would choose to vacation in any location when they feel that location is offering them less than another? Disney offers a product, and every piece of that product can be traced to a tangible decision or action. The "Magic" comes from the interaction between those tangible decisions/actions and the guest. Regardless of whether you believe Disney HAS reduced its side of the equation, if someone feels they have, the product, whatever you wish to call it, has been de-valued for that customer.

When it comes to making a purchase decision, it is not that customer's responsibility to overlook the reduction and make the best of it. Yes, that's probably the best route once the purchase decision has been made, but in this case, it hasn't. We simply have a customer who has stated his purchase decision has been impacted by a company's course of action.

So that customer leaves. Such is the way of business. If a company loses more than it gains, its in for big trouble.

Blaming customers for not responding positively to events brought on by management decisions maybe relevant when advising somebody how to make the best of a disappointing situation. But it has little relevance when talking about the merit of those management decsions.

So there.

(And with only one quote....somewhere, the president of the League of Quote Haters must be smiling... )

 

[crusader]

I didn't get the impression that Baron was leaving the world. It appeared more along the lines of a disenhearted fan who is being forced to resign himself to a perpetually changed environment.

There are roots to the place which may be strong enough to weather just about anything. The disillusionment process can take years but it happens to the best of us. It's like believing in a concept so intensely it becomes tangible in nature but the truth is it really was only a fantasy. Step back and look at it closely and you see the operation in all its glory and failures. You see oz behind the curtain.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Matt, I never have discounted Baron or your or most other opinions. Certainly they are equally as legitimate as mine and in the case of Baron maybe more so as his devotion to the Disney mystique is truly greater than mine.

But I dispute your allegation that discussion of the negative in such great detail and with excrutiating minute as we do here cannot but help to lead a person to a conclusion that they may not have come to if left with their blinders fully in tact...And certainly that conclusion would be longer in comong for most people (if you believe it is inevitable).

Disney has screwed up and has problems but big deal. This is just the now and tomorrow can always be better - Maybe Eisner will retire next week. And even in this so-called screwed up 'now', we still have a wonderful sounding M:S, Philharmagic and Everest to look forward to and for those of us who choose to see the positive a new MGM attraction soon in the offing.

I reiterate that I do not discount your opinions...But I do believe that the constant barrage of negativity seen here hurts an individuals actual perception...

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Did someone say something about a new attraction?

 

[raidermatt]

Leaving may not be completely accurate, but visiting significantly less appears to be very accurate.

With respect to the complaints around here, for the most part, its not disillusionment with finding out there's a man behind the curtain. If nothing else, many of us go through great pains to point out we know there is a man behind the curtain, and there always has been. In fact, some are very interested in everything that man does from back there, and how he does it.

The problem, as it is perceived, is with the WAY the current man and his minions are running things from behind the curtain.

 

[Peter Pirate]

BTW MAtt, quoting Bill Murray is a true touch of genius...I have gained a huge amount of respect for you!!!

 

[raidermatt]

Did someone say something about a new attraction?

As usual, it all started with a mouse, er, rumor.

Heir Pirate, when it comes to how the negative opinions themselves influence the opinions of others, I think it depends on the individual. But when you look at the Dis as a whole, the far more popular boards are largely filled with *hugs* and *pixie dust*. Then there's the other sites that don't even have a little corner like this for discussing things rationally. Which is fine of course, but since most people do not confine themselves to just the Rumors and News board on the Dis, its hard to imagine someone's entire perception of Disney being corrupted due to the rantings of a dozen or so lunatics over here.

I understand your point about WDW still being a great place, loved by many people despite the problems. But problems are problems, and WDW doesn't exist in a vacuum. If they reduce their value, or even in an optimistic view, reduce the rate of their adding of value, they will lose ground to other destinations.

If that happens, that's not good for anybody who cares about Disney, and it is a separate issue from where an individual decides to travel.

 

[raidermatt]

BTW Matt, quoting Bill Murray is a true touch of genius...I have gained a huge amount of respect for you!!!

Gunga, la gunga, gunga...gunga la gunga.

 

[crusader]

The problem, as it is perceived, is with the WAY the current man and his minions are running things from behind the curtain.

Fair enough - but rest assured the minions are running it eventhough the man sits on the throne.

What I don't get is why place so much emphasis on food; bussing; viewing spots; schedules; how many boats were in fantasmic; whether you had to carry your gifts back to your room: etc.........etc..............etc. If this stuff really causes you to compromise your values then what are you vacationing for in the first place? Why go somewhere you refuse to allow yourself to settle into? Why not walk away.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Hey Matt, did you hear that the Llama was a big hitter?

 

[DisneyKidds]

Did someone say something about a new attraction?

Just a couple of rumors and some chatter. However, all I got was a black eye when I tried to talk about 'em . Of course there are no guarantees that anything will happen, but it wouldn't surprise me either way if there was or wasn't increased chatter and more talk over the next 6 to 12 months. The one thing that someone is right about is that we'll just have to wait and see. There are people who know more than I, but they aren't talking.

For the very first time in 30 years there just wasn’t enough pixie dust to make me forget that WDW is merely a shell of what was once a GREAT vacation destination.

Sorry you feel that way Baron . Soon enough I'll see for myself, and me, Greg, Matt and Scoop will hopefully talk about how good or bad it is over a drink or two .

Mr. Kidds, this is the future you were contemplating!

Nah - I think I've righted my ship. However, and not because I'm developing Baronitis, a can't get rid of this nagging itch in the back of my Disney loving soul to possibly give the Universal parks a try in December. I don't want to say that Baron is right, but Disney does keep chipping. I'm looking at the real possibilty that over the entire Memorial Day week there might only be one showing of SpectroMagic. Like to believe it or not, Disney may have cut too close to the bone for me on some things. Combine that with DC (and my related AP discount) most likely going away............well, they are making me think about Universal. That has nothing to do with the blinders being removed or my 'disillusionment' being revealed - it has to do with maybe, just maybe, me getting close to the point of finding it acceptable to take a few days of my business elsewhere for strictly consumer value and entertainment reasons. That doesn't mean I'm about to accept the car 3 decleration of independence from Disney. I still believe the Magic is there. I still believe Disney is doing many things well. I am very encourage by the upcoming additions and recent announcements. I very much believe in enjoying Disney for what it is, as opposed to reviling it for what it isn't. I think there is ample reason for me to remain in car 2, but that doesn't mean I can't say I won't take a few days and spend it at the competition. You know, I probably won't do it (just yet), but I do think about it, and that is quite a change..............and that's the fact, Jack .

But I dispute your allegation that discussion of the negative in such great detail and with excrutiating minute as we do here cannot but help to lead a person to a conclusion that they may not have come to if left with their blinders fully in tact...

I'll just speak for myself......but I have been fully able to weather the waves of negative discussion. More often than not, my eyes (thru the rose colored glasses) see copious amounts of steam coming from all that hot air most of the other side of the aisle is full of . Any misgivings I have now are strictly due to events and circumsatnces I would act upon with or without the discussion on this board. Entertainment being cut too far, my DC discounts drying up.........I don't need these boards to reveal to me that those things are just unacceptable to me.

Heir Pirate, when it comes to how the negative opinions themselves influence the opinions of others, I think it depends on the individual.

I do agree with this statement. There are those who don't truely love Disney for the reasons others might, and the negativity here could sway them. There are those who love Disney sooooo much (like Baron) that the negatives leave them a little more scorned than most. As you say................

Certainly they are equally as legitimate as mine and in the case of Baron maybe more so as his devotion to the Disney mystique is truly greater than mine.

............and that devotion is quite the double edged sword. Hey, maybe the real difference between the twos and the threes is that the twos just have that certain, hard to obtain, balance between love and devotion to Disney, reality, and the ability to live in the moment and be optimistic about the future. I hope (and think) I can still claim that.

Well......that is more than I thought I was going to type..........sorry if I rambled .

 

[crusader]

it has to do with maybe, just maybe, me getting close to the point of finding it acceptable to take a few days of my business elsewhere for strictly consumer value and entertainment reasons.

Two questions here -

Does universal really give you more in terms of consumer value? There are two areas which categorically fall into this arena: ticket prices and accomodation rates. The hotels offer an entertainment rate which is the best deal going but that's basically it. The AP ticket prices however don't appear to be offerring more.

What would this entertainment be that it would lure a Disney loyalist to the competition? Showtimes doesn't add up here. It would have to include the attractions as well.

 

[Peter Pirate]

I think you're pretty close to hitting the nail on the head crusader. People go to Disney for years. They're big fans, medium fans, small fans...Maybe not a fan at all. Then some disenfranchisement sets in and the first thing often said is "I'm giving my business to Universal because they've built new rides!"...Well, duh! IOA is a new park, they're relatively new in the business. People will certainly find a great time there their first time (maybe even second, third, fourth and fifth) visit. But over the long haul will Universal replace the "thing" that Disney has gven over the past many years? This is an unknown (and I AM NOT presuming to answer it).

What I do know is that my friend gcurling really likes Universal and visits frequently. He admittedly holds them to a different standard (not better, not worse) just different.

In our family my wife and oldest girl will be visitng IOA this weekend for a birthday party. It's my daughters 3rd visit so it will be telling. It will be my wife's first (I suspect she will like it).

I don't think visiting Universal equates with Disney shortcomings necessarily but it probably does indicate that the hype over 'Disney bads' and the hype over 'IOA goods' is being heard...And listening to hype & innuendo that fills these boards, without proper filtration is a dangerous thing,

Lastly Mr. Kidds, while I appreciate the quote...The more appropriate one would have been "have you ever had the spatula treatment?" But semi-seriously, I appreciate your and Matt's contention that you've maintained your objectivity despite the negativity, I just can't see how. Did you religiously check the Spectro schedule or hours before trips prior to this board? See, we never checked anything. I didn't check anything because it was anecdotal. We couldn't do anything about it anyway. When we couldn't do something we wanted we switched gears and always had fun...Often we found something grand and different because of this happenstance. Now, as members of this board we know everything, expect everything and like Howard Beal are "mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore". This isn't an excuse for the deterioration we've seen (as I know Matt will point out) but rather a caveot. Not a justification but a condition.

Certainly things are not running smoothly at Disney, but even if they were we would have a contingent ready to jump on every mistep or perceived abnormality. Is this disputable?

 

[airlarry!]

Scoop, you might have hit the problem there.

We are debating here whether or not there really is something in the works for MGM this year, yet Baron's tied in for 40-odd years with his DVC purchase.

Add that to the fact that no resort anywhere, ever should realistically be expected to entertain anyone every year for 10 or 20+ years, and you get what you have with Baron.

Unfortunately, when 40000 people buy into DVC, they are expecting that their resort will entertain them ever year for more than 10 or 20+ years...

That is one real reason why there needs to be a definite plan for maintaining and upgrading each park, and each resort hotel, for each year.

The sadness comes in debating whether it will happen or not. The fun comes in debating what will happen (Armaggedon?)