New Four Seasons Timeshare on Disney Property and Value Oriented West Side

[Cobra B.]

Shhhhh! Listen. There it goes again... Walt rolling around in his grave.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Can somebody please explain to me why this is so bad? I don't see where Disney is selling any land, but maybe I missed something.
If Four Seasons is building on Disney property, why is this any different than the Swan & Dolphin hotels?
I also don't see any mention of timeshares or competition for DVC. I believe fractional ownership housing is a bit different.

MG

 

[Scratch42]

Can somebody please explain to me why this is so bad? I don't see where Disney is selling any land, but maybe I missed something.
If Four Seasons is building on Disney property, why is this any different than the Swan & Dolphin hotels?
I also don't see any mention of timeshares or competition for DVC. I believe fractional ownership housing is a bit different.

MG

It's the Canadians taking over slowly!

Haven't you heard about our campaingn to make Florida a province!?!



j

 

[DancingBear]

Can somebody please explain to me why this is so bad? I don't see where Disney is selling any land, but maybe I missed something.
If Four Seasons is building on Disney property, why is this any different than the Swan & Dolphin hotels?
I also don't see any mention of timeshares or competition for DVC. I believe fractional ownership housing is a bit different.

It is the same as the Swan and Dolphin. But the S&D were only built as on-property independent hotels because the deal was in place and they couldn't get out of it.

Why it's bad is 'cause it means Disney is giving up on doing anything special themselves. They not be selling the land, but what's the difference? It's more land being used for something other than a truly Disney resort, or a 5th gate, or something else.

And fractional ownership=timeshare.

 

[OrlandoMike]

If you dont aleady have Eagle Pines, Osprey Ridge, or 99 holes of golf merchandise I would get some now! They will be collectors items very soon.

 

[Lesley]

Just popped in because I wanted to see what all of you were saying about this. My dh heard about it last night and on a quick review of the article on AllEars all I could think was "encroachment!" Its definitely not sitting well with me, even though I'm trying to find something good about it.

So, its not the beginning of the end (that has already long passed, right?) but is it the middle of the end, or the end of the end?

My dh, in absolute reactionary fashion, suggested selling the DVC. This wouldn't be the only reason, of course, but perhaps the last straw. I've given up my deep personal attachment to what WDW was at one time, but I think it may be interesting to see what effect this has on WDW as a whole. If we don't go back we really won't know. Plus the kids would be devestated.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Lesley, I feel exactly as you do. I still like WDW a lot but I have very little deep attraction to it anymore. Every decision they make, while not completely evil is certainly centered around the bottom line. Now I know 4Seasons will cater to their clientele better than Disney but it's sad to me that Disney so easily admits it. I always believed Disney could do anything better than anyone else. I close my eyes for a little nap and wake to find out Iger has just turned them into everyone else.

 

[grimgrinnin]

The team of Michael Eisner and Bob Iger have now managed to sell off more than a third of the Walt Disney World's land.

Eh? Source please. Disney has not sold any land for the 'western' project. Not sure about the FS. If they did sell the 900 acres, how is that 1/3rd?


grim

 

[DisOrBust]

I have the same feeling as well. The love I had for the place is now replaced with a bitterness of how "stupid" do they think I am. I hate myself for funding such a money grubbing organization with my families hard earned cash. We still go for my kids but not as often as we had in the past.

 

[Another Voice]

Disney has not sold any land for the 'western' project.

Almost all of the land south of US 192, the town of Celebration the surrounding land, was sold off when Disney bailed on this project. The land for the Four Seasons, time shares and tract homes will also be sold off. Just Celebration alone is near 30% of the Walt's property. The rest and minor other sales that have been going on for years have now pushed things over a third according to some good estimates.

What we're seeing is the new approach the current management (Bob Iger and Jay Rasulo [I'm not going to bother looking up the spelling of that idiot's name]. The future of Disney Parks and Resorts is the model being used in Tokyo, Paris and Hong Kong: Disney will own a limited stake in an operating company but the majority will be held be outside firms. This idea goes way back to the Eisner days, now it's starting to pick up speed.

"Disney" is a brand now. To The Company, "Disney" is a mark of good value and Mickey Mouse and children products. It's a moderartely upscale brand being sold to the well-off middle class. It's as simple as at McDonald's you see Ronald, at Disney you'll see Mickey. "Disney" is a way to wrap up all the products The Company wants to sell you, all in a nice convient buddle so you're shopping dollars don't wander too far away. It's princesses to cruise ships all in once convinent stop.

Disney is the WalMart of entertainment.

 

[Lewisc]

You make a lot of good points.

Just remember the hotels at DTD were part of WDW's original plan. The shopping center across the street (Crossings) was originally owned by WDW. Since that time Disney has added 3 more theme parks. Having another area that accommodates guests looking for a different experience isn't necessarily bad.

Getting a company like Four Seasons to build an upscale hotel also makes some sense.

The problem is when you put everything together. Disney seems more interested in leasing land rather than actually building something.

There is a rumor that Disney is going to finish POP with the new section being family suites.

Some quick notes:

It's long been rumored that Disney wants to partner-up with an outside company for the expansion of DVC and Disney Resorts. Everyone had assumed this was going to be Marriott (Disney has tried to sell all the WDW resorts to them in the past). This is the first I've heard of Four Seasons being around.

Why does Disney want to sell land to people who want to build low-end motel rooms while half of Disney's Pop Century sits rotting in the sun? Is Disney now giving up on the low end of the resort business? Is there that much demand for motel rooms? And then why not finish Pop?

The Four Season development - hotel, time shares and vacation homes is exactly what the old Disney Village Resort (e.g. Lake Buena Vista Resort) was designed to be. But they ripped it out for the moronic Disney Institute, then turned it into DVC.

And the western development sounds like another Hotel Plaza & Crossroads Center.

The team of Michael Eisner and Bob Iger have now managed to sell off more than a third of the Walt Disney World's land.

Selling off another giant piece of WDW to another outside company is interesting and desperate. Giving away the high end of the market is interesting and desperate. Allowing competitors to build thousands of motel rooms while thousands of rooms at Pop Century sit unfinished is interesting and desperate. Rushing out all these press releases about expansion off property, the cruise line and WDW is interesteing and desperate.

So when is the other shoe going to fall?

 

[YoHo]

This is the end, the end of our story.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Where does it say the land will be sold for the Four Season's project?
Also, I understood that Celebration had been earmarked for sale since the beginning. Am I wrong??

I just don't see this as a big deal. I see this as a major over reaction here. Would you rather have the land just sit there? Then you folks would be complaing about wasted resources etc.. There seems to be no way to please most people on this board. "Darned if you do, darned if you don't."

It's a Four Seasons for pete's sake, not a HoJo's!!

MG

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Celebration WAS sold to Lexin Corp.

 

[Geubux]

You're right, Gracey. They are all just whinning. This is a way to get HIGH end hotels built with someone else's money. Yep, it's the end. I guess if you want quality entertainment, you'll have to go to Universal or Six Flags. Oh wait, those are both look some high adventure port-o-pots.

Forgive us and them for messing with the "Holy", the land o disney. Looks like there might be an acre or two left to squeeze a carny ride or a new parking lot.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Sure it's a 4Seasons ... And it WILL be GREAT. But it won't be Disney. Is the Swan and Dolphin "Disney"? I am one of the few who like both of these hotels (around here) but there is no mistaking them for "Disney" hotels.

Again, the Disney I fell in love with would have taken the idea of a world class resort and done it themselves...Better. Iger doesn't care if Disney is in a class by iteself, if they're just a little better and making big bucks then he'll be satisfied. And if they keep making $$$ I'm not too sure how much he'll care about the core quality issues. So far his decisions have erred on the side of profit every single time.

 

[Another Voice]

Am I wrong??

Yes you are. In the original master plan that land was going to be used for a regional airport. Later is was to be a high tech industrial showcase. Then it became Celebration which was supposed to be Disney forever. Then the company sold out the residents for a couple extra bucks. The press announcement itself says the land will be de-annexed from RCID - that's why they're making the early announcement. The land for the western expansion will remain Disney property, but WDW is will build a fake "gateway" so that it looks like it's outside WDW proper.

I just don't see this as a big deal.

Because you're not paying attention. By giving this land away to other people Disney is saying two things: "people can run WDW better than we can" and "we're in this for a quick buck rather than the future".

Once the land is gone, there's no chance for any future Disney projects. WDW used to be more than just theme parks, they're used to be all kinds of ideas. Disney is giving up on those. It's saying they've run out of ideas, they don't need the land.

And for the sake of Earl - Disney can't build and operate an up-scale hotel? Is the company so bad that it can't run hotels and valet parking? This is the company that screams at us it makes "magic" - but now tells us that outside companies are better at everything! What kind of "quality" is Disney committing to if it can't do the simple things?

Disney's given up. They want our money but they don't want to work for it.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

But if Disney is having trouble filling the hotels they already have, why would they build more? If they built hotels they couldn't fill, I can't imagine the outcry on this board.

The Four Seasons will bring a new kind of visitor to WDW. Perhaps this will generate more revenue and profit for Disney, and lead to lead to bigger and better things down the road.

I do apologize for looking on the bright side, and not being doom & gloom like so many here.

MG

 

[Maistre Gracey]

And fractional ownership=timeshare.

Not necessarily. Perhaps it does for the legalize type stuff, but not always from a actuallity standpoint.
There are things such as high end houses that are quarter or eighth owned.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Look, I was optimistic up until Iger took over and showed me exactly the path that he intended to take, the path that Eisner paved for him (wittingly or not). I still contend that Eisner's ego made him better suited for 'our' Disney than Iger's (Eisner thought himself creative so some creativity did evolve). Iger does not think he's creative nor does he care.

This 4Season's thing is just, as has been said, more proof that Disney doesn't care about evolving anymore. It's easier for them to hire outside hoteliers, restraunteurs, janitors, bellmen, valets, gardeners than to do the job themselves. Now perhaps some of these jobs could (I say could) be better served by out sourcing, but Hotels??? What if Disney gets to the point where an outside management team for managing the Parks looks better to them? Will this be the wake up call?